Post verdict discussions #2

[Tigerlily75]

I still wonder how many donations OW and her husband raised to fund GBC's legal costs?

Earlier this week, Mrs Walton and husband Ian, sent an email to family and friends urging them to donate to a bank account to help fund her brother's legal defence.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...erard Baden-Clay's parents&itmt=1406111881878

http://www.news.com.au/national/pol...lays-parents-car/story-e6frfkvr-1226404924501

My guess - I think they might have gotten some donations, from a kind caring granny or something, but really - how many would actually donate to something like this? Especially large sums of money? What would you think if you got an email like that? I'd be thinking "um, what if he did it ..".

I've not heard anyone other than his immediate family defending him. There's no Free Gerard website that I'm aware of. My guess is that pretty much anyone who ever knew him knows he did it, and back then suspected he could be capable.

 

[Consider]

Hi Oz Jen

The last sentence GBC speaks in this audio does he say Allison "loved them" or "loves them" ?

Slam dunk if it's "loved".

I take my hat off to any professional dealing with a recording like this. Being there on the day and seeing GBC's body language at each moment he spoke would be telling to laymen and women and more so to trained and especially experienced personnel.

Police. 1 good one - is what it takes. jmo

That day : seemingly a team of 'good ones' were on board.

I find this audio : compelling. I certainly wouldn't pick the modsnip on the basis of this alone that's for sure.

http://media.brisbanetimes.com.au/n...rain&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Outbrain_cpc

 

[BreakingNews]

I have never heard Ian walton speak to the media. Livie has made a few statements and i am sure it was her that said the truth will come out. Well, it has. So are we hearing another media statement from you, Livie? And Livie, remember the day you and I were in the lift together at the committal and you were crying "We all miss her and love her so much". Then you went out and did a media interview saying exactly what you'd rehearsed on me. So where are you now?

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[FigTree]

Some GBC themed media ...

Opinion: Old-fashioned justice system needs to move with times
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...-move-with-times/story-fnihsr9v-1226999152592

OF ALL society’s institutions that adhere to old-fashioned customs, those of the courts have to be up there as the most fuddy-duddy.
This was brought into doubly sharp focus for many by the murder trials of Gerard Baden-Clay and Brett Cowan. Regular people were compelled to get up close to the vagaries of our court system because they were so engaged emotionally.

------
Andrew O’Keefe says change in men’s attitudes will reduce violence against women ahead of White Ribbon Night
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...ite-ribbon-night/story-fngr8h22-1226997729123

The TV identity said recent murder cases like Gerard Baden-Clay and Simon Gittany had put the spotlight firmly on violence against women.

 

[Oz Jen]

Hi Oz Jen

The last sentence GBC speaks in this audio does he say Allison "loved them" or "loves them" ?

Slam dunk if it's "loved".

I take my hat off to any professional dealing with a recording like this. Being there on the day and seeing GBC's body language at each moment he spoke would be telling to laymen and women and more so to trained and especially experienced personnel.

Police. 1 good one - is what it takes. jmo

That day : seemingly a team of 'good ones' were on board.

I find this audio : compelling. I certainly wouldn't pick the modsnip on the basis of this alone that's for sure.

Hi Consider,

I think GBC says 'loves' but it is very difficult to be be sure. I found his entire interview completely devoid of emotion. It strikes me as very unusual, given the circumstances at the time.

 

[Timmy]

Hi Consider,

I think GBC says 'loves' but it is very difficult to be be sure. I found his entire interview completely devoid of emotion. It strikes me as very unusual, given the circumstances at the time.

I think he says 'loves' too BUT .... Earlier when discussing the girls saying that maybe Allison put her phone on silent, he says' She sometimes did that' instead of 'sometimes does that 'and when they are talking about her walking routes, he says 'She sometimes went that way' instead of 'goes that way'.
It is very hard to listen to... You find yourself trying to make sense of the order of events .... So you got up and shaved, no, wait a minute, you shaved later, one daughter was up, no, wait a minute, none of the girls were up, oh she was awake but not up, oh, you were making lunches, no just wait........

 

[Aliwonders]

Hi Oz Jen

The last sentence GBC speaks in this audio does he say Allison "loved them" or "loves them" ?

Slam dunk if it's "loved".

I take my hat off to any professional dealing with a recording like this. Being there on the day and seeing GBC's body language at each moment he spoke would be telling to laymen and women and more so to trained and especially experienced personnel.

Police. 1 good one - is what it takes. jmo

That day : seemingly a team of 'good ones' were on board.


What about the way his voice goes up a couple of decibels when he says the word EVIDENCE!! I found that really odd. As if he was realising he needed to get some evidence. I think he says She loves them.

 

[Aliwonders]

I think he says 'loves' too BUT .... Earlier when discussing the girls saying that maybe Allison put her phone on silent, he says' She sometimes did that' instead of 'sometimes does that 'and when they are talking about her walking routes, he says 'She sometimes went that way' instead of 'goes that way'.
It is very hard to listen to... You find yourself trying to make sense of the order of events .... So you got up and shaved, no, wait a minute, you shaved later, one daughter was up, no, wait a minute, none of the girls were up, oh she was awake but not up, oh, you were making lunches, no just wait........

I find that interesting too. Needs a timeline and I think this has been done. But what time did the girls go to school and who was going to take them. He was all dressed for work pretty early and talking about hurrying and getting the girls ready but it was only around 7- 730 Does school start at 9 and how long did it take them to get to the school from where they were. Also how far was the office from their house. Somewhere I read that Allison was going to leave at 7 to meet Kate at the office at 8. That's an hour?? Maybe she was going to collect things but it all seems like they had plenty of time to kill to make it to where they needed to be. (Umm no pun intented)

 

[Ooohm]

Always, always, I wondered, what was the GD rush that morning? What was the logical explanation for his hurry? I never could see one nor remember hearing him articulate the reason for the rush. Yes he had an Open. Yes the girls had to go to school. But...he never once said "geez my wife has left for the conference and didn't get our children ready. What a hassle. Gee she must have gone to the conference early."
No, he went straight to Triple 0.
But he sure tried to bamboozle everyone! What did the saying used to be---"Baffle 'em with ********e!" Ducking and weaving. Good thing we had timelines and spreadsheets!
It must have been incredibly frustrating to live with on a daily basis.

 

[Tigerlily75]

Always, always, I wondered, what was the GD rush that morning? What was the logical explanation for his hurry? I never could see one nor remember hearing him articulate the reason for the rush. Yes he had an Open. Yes the girls had to go to school. But...he never once said "geez my wife has left for the conference and didn't get our children ready. What a hassle. Gee she must have gone to the conference early."
No, he went straight to Triple 0.
But he sure tried to bamboozle everyone! What did the saying used to be---"Baffle 'em with ********e!" Ducking and weaving. Good thing we had timelines and spreadsheets!
It must have been incredibly frustrating to live with on a daily basis.

Exactly, everything was way too early. He was "concerned" way too early. How do you leap from being a little bit "gee where is she" to ringing parents by 645 and the POLICE by 7.15. It was ridiculous. He was just far too anxious to get his story going (he'd been planning it all night) and had the added knowledge no one else yet knew - she really was missing and wasn't coming back. So he may as well get the ball rolling. The quicker we do this, the quicker we get the insurance money!

And his Dad called a lawyer by 1 pm that day. Say what?

They're so arrogant they just assume people will believe them.

And yes - in the interviews .. at first he's mildly concerned .. But by 9am or so he should really actually be concerned, but he doesn't sound any different.

Also, in a police woman's statement - I forget her name, at around 11am she asked to use his phone to try the Find My Friends app again. Now it was probably a techno error, but it came up with a hit 61(?) Boscombe Street, somewhere behind their property. She says something like "oh look it's working" ~ and his response? "Oh .. that's good". Oh, that's good. Not OH MY GOD LETS GO THERE NOW! , but Oh, that's good. Ok then. Not the reaction one would expect. I wonder why the prosecution didn't use stuff like that.

 

[Aliwonders]

Always, always, I wondered, what was the GD rush that morning? What was the logical explanation for his hurry? I never could see one nor remember hearing him articulate the reason for the rush. Yes he had an Open. Yes the girls had to go to school. But...he never once said "geez my wife has left for the conference and didn't get our children ready. What a hassle. Gee she must have gone to the conference early."
No, he went straight to Triple 0.
But he sure tried to bamboozle everyone! What did the saying used to be---"Baffle 'em with ********e!" Ducking and weaving. Good thing we had timelines and spreadsheets!
It must have been incredibly frustrating to live with on a daily basis.

Yeh he really slipped up a lot!!! I would have thought that he would have assumed that she had gone to the conference....but wait her handbag and purse are still here!! And what a thoughtful husband to put her hot rollers on..... like the real snag that he wasn't. He really tried far too hard with the acting. Going for a walk was really the only option that had a chance but even that was a long shot once the forensics were brought in.

 

[Berry]

This person, a male, a wife killer is known as GBC....perhaps he can never admit it but we know him as a Ghastly Beastly Cretin.

Emotional abuser and killer forever with No Parole before 15 yrs will be suffice for me

 

[Berry]

Bring on white ribbon day/awareness for this insidious abuse against females.

TIME TO STOP IT.

REPORT ANY SCREAM, FEMALE OR MALE IN THE SUBURBS PEEPS PLEASE. xxxxxxxx

 

[elmo343]

I thought the most bizarre part of the the whole case, investigation etc was when GBC's parents kissed for the cameras. It was like, what was that all about???????

 

[MDP]

The caterpillar incident.
Folks, has anyone else found it hard to grapple with the fact that the ‘caterpillar incident’, which is the subject of witness 51′s testimony on Day 7, happened on the morning of the 19th!? Was he lucky enough to actually be bitten by something that morning, which he conveniently used to explain his neck and chest scratches? Because these are the only other explanations for this non existent caterpillar that I can suggest are: 1. He could foresee the future and knew she would scratch him that night while he killed her. 2. He already had scratches on his torso that he knew he would need to excuse on the morning of the 20th 3. Witness 51’s evidence was a fabrication.
Thoughts?

 

[Cattail]

The caterpillar incident.
Folks, has anyone else found it hard to grapple with the fact that the ‘caterpillar incident’, which is the subject of witness 51′s testimony on Day 7, happened on the morning of the 19th!? Was he lucky enough to actually be bitten by something that morning, which he conveniently used to explain his neck and chest scratches? Because these are the only other explanations for this non existent caterpillar that I can suggest are: 1. He could foresee the future and knew she would scratch him that night while he killed her. 2. He already had scratches on his torso that he knew he would need to excuse on the morning of the 20th 3. Witness 51’s evidence was a fabrication.
Thoughts?

I believe he was bitten by something that made him itchy. I don't think witness 51 would lie about this. If you were going to lie to help GBC it would be about something more relevant than this.

Caterpillar or other bug is not relevant to me.

The next day he had more scratches to explain, he thought of what had made him scratch himself the day before and used truth as the basis of an exaggeration. IMO.




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[wewillgetyou]

http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/re...ite-ribbon-night/story-fnixwvgh-1227000328570

A very interesting, and sad article from another woman who suffered at the hands of her partner.

 

[possumheart]

I had been in that same situation where my ex was strangling me and I had to reach to pull him off me and my fingernails scraped his cheek. Having known what it’s like to have the weight of a man on top of you and to have to fight back like that …. The Baden-Clay case did bring up a lot of trauma for me. I had to turn off the news several times. Any sort of reminder can be quite traumatic.

Yes. Well spotted.
Some men have no manners.

http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/re...ite-ribbon-night/story-fnixwvgh-1227000328570

A very interesting, and sad article from another woman who suffered at the hands of her partner.

 

[FigTree]

I thought that GBC gave some very scripted answers and used some pompous words to answer TFQC on the final cross examination questions.
'suppositions', 'absurd', 'dastardly', 'facade', 'candid'
Then there are the extended answers where he gives a lot more detail.

I have grouped GBC's answers below...

In the final summing up by QC Fuller GBC answers:


“CAN’T ANSWER”
Mr Fuller: "Perhaps her jumper came up, as she tried to fight you off, up over her head, and up around her neck, or did that happen later, as you moved her body?"
Mr Baden-Clay: "I never did anything to physically harm my wife in any way, ever. So your suppositions to then take it further to suggest that I did other things as well, is absurd, and I object to it. So I can't answer your question."


“NO”
Mr Fuller: "You have no idea?" (re shoulder injury to GBC)
Mr Baden-Clay: "No."


“I DID NOT”
Mr Fuller: "That was all done by 1.48am, perhaps, which was when you put your phone back on its charger."
Mr Baden-Clay: "I did not."
------
Mr Fuller: "You started covering your tracks then, I suggest to you, Mr Baden-Clay, toys in back of car, shaving, cutting yourself just at bottom edges to help disguise, and give some legitimacy to your claim that they were in fact shaving cuts."
Mr Baden-Clay: "I did not."


“NO I DID NOT”
Mr Fuller: "You killed your wife, Mr Baden-Clay."
Mr Baden-Clay: "No, I did not."
-----
Mr Fuller: "You killed her either in or at your house at Brookfield that night or the early hours of the morning."
Mr Baden-Clay: "No, I did not."
-----
Mr Fuller: "You transported her to Kholo Creek and then dumped her underneath the bridge, unceremoniously."
Mr Baden-Clay: "No, I did not."
-----


“ABSOLUTELY NOT” – “YES”
Mr Fuller: "And then you told everybody they were shaving cuts, anybody who asked. And you were happy for the police to search your house, correct?"
Mr Baden-Clay: "Yes, I had nothing to hide."
-----
Mr Fuller: "And you're certain you never told Allison she was going to run into Ms McHugh the next day?"
Mr Baden-Clay: "Absolutely not."
Mr Fuller: "Despite the flashbacks?"
Mr Baden-Clay: "Yes."
Mr Fuller: "Despite the angst it had caused before?"
Mr Baden-Clay: "Yes."
Mr Fuller: "Despite your newfound love and commitment to her?"
Mr Baden-Clay: "To Allison? Yes."
-----


“THAT IS NOT TRUE”
Mr Fuller: "You attacked her and the only way she could respond was lash out and claw at your face and leave marks upon it."
Mr Baden-Clay: "That is not true."
-----
Mr Fuller: "Probably as you smothered her and took her life from her."
Mr Baden-Clay: "That is not true."


“I DON’T KNOW”
Mr Fuller: "Perhaps she grabbed at your clothing. Is that why you had that injury under your right shoulder. Why did you have that injury?"
Mr Baden-Clay: "I don't know."
Mr Fuller: "You have no idea?"
-----
Mr Fuller: "Her head came into contact with the fallen leaves at the back of your house, or the side of your house?"
Mr Baden-Clay: "I don't know."


“DETAILED ANSWERS”
Mr Fuller: "You overpowered her pretty quickly, didn't you?"
Mr Baden-Clay: "I never overpowered her at all."
-----
Mr Fuller: "And she sustained perhaps a minor injury to some part of her body that caused her to bleed."
Mr Baden-Clay: "I did not have anything to do with anything you are suggesting."
-----
Mr Fuller: "That's why the blood is on the right hand side...where the seats are folded?"
Mr Baden-Clay: "I had nothing to do with anything you are asking me."
-----
Mr Fuller: "That's why the blood is on the right hand side...where the seats are folded?"
Mr Baden-Clay: "I had nothing to do with anything you are asking me."
-----
Mr Fuller: "Anxious to get back to your children?"
Mr Baden-Clay: "The suggestion that I would leave my children for any time, in the middle of the night, is absurd, let alone do the dastardly things you're suggesting."
-----
Mr Fuller: "Because you knew there was nothing to be found."
Mr Baden-Clay: "No, because I knew that I had nothing to hide. And I wanted my wife found. And they suggested that searching the house might in some way be helpful to that end. So I enabled them to do whatever they wanted to do."
-----
Mr Fuller: "And you kept up the facade of a concerned husband?"
Mr Baden-Clay: "I was a concerned husband and I am a very concerned father, I remain so. It's not a facade."
-----
Mr Fuller: "And then you took some legal advice, and declined to provide a formal statement to the police?"
Mr Baden-Clay: "That's right. I, to be perfectly candid with you, had no idea what a formal statement was, and I couldn't see how it was any different to all the numerous questions I'd been asked previously. But my lawyer insisted upon it, so I followed that advice."
-----

 

[BritsKate]

Bring on white ribbon day/awareness for this insidious abuse against females.

TIME TO STOP IT.

REPORT ANY SCREAM, FEMALE OR MALE IN THE SUBURBS PEEPS PLEASE. xxxxxxxx

May I add to your sage advice, please? I'd add: Emotional abuse should be every bit as intolerable as physical abuse. We all heard the old adage 'Sticks and Stones' as kids but we know better...emotional abuse is at least as damaging, and sometimes even more so, than physical violence. Many of us wouldn't dream of allowing our children to be bullied but lose sight of it when an adult is facing a similar scenario.

I'd also add this: if you know someone in an abusive relationship, don't give up on them. Don't make them feel a failure or a fool for not leaving. Women stay for a multitude of reasons but often their fear of something worse befalling them keeps them with their abuser. On average, it takes an abused woman leaving 7 (yes, seven) times leaving before she leaves for good. A woman leaving an abusive relationship is at a much higher risk of physical and even lethal violence. If you or someone you know is leaving an abuser, please contact a local intimate partner violence advocacy for help in securing a safety plan.

But yes...bring on the White Ribbon - to wrap around the entire blessed planet. In the UK, two women a week will lose their lives to someone who once said they loved them. In South Africa, three women daily. It has to stop.