RDI Theories & Discussion ONLY!

[questfortrue]

I agree with one exception. I don't believe it was innocent curiosity. He had been caught before according to the housekeeper and his reaction was quite troubling IMO.

Patsy knew.

Yet it continued, as they allowed JonBenet to routinely crawl into his bed.

They likely blamed themselves, for not doing anything to protect her.

All IMO


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The experts talk about a continuum of sexual behavior among kids.

With nothing more to go on than some information from the housekeeper, and some Boulder rumors, it’s difficult to tell much more about the dynamics here. I’d never hazard to guess how the experts would evaluate this family. But we’ve all read the reports - JB regressing in her toileting, seeming particularly stressed out that December, visitation to the school nurse on two Mondays, teacher reporting she was clingier to PR, and PR calling Dr. B 3 times on the 17th. (We can assume it was associated with something frightening to PR, or she wouldn’t have kept trying to reach him after hours.) One doesn’t need to be an expert to see that activities were escalating in an unhealthy, disturbing way.

Since there weren’t any reports of behavior issues at school, this situation seems to be overlaid with something I’d call “domination of the golden child”.
All imo

(wb, me3)

 

[bettybaby00]

The experts talk about a continuum of sexual behavior among kids.

With nothing more to go on than some information from the housekeeper, and some Boulder rumors, it’s difficult to tell much more about the dynamics here. I’d never hazard to guess how the experts would evaluate this family. But we’ve all read the reports - JB regressing in her toileting, seeming particularly stressed out that December, visitation to the school nurse on two Mondays, teacher reporting she was clingier to PR, and PR calling Dr. B 3 times on the 17th. (We can assume it was associated with something frightening to PR, or she wouldn’t have kept trying to reach him after hours.) One doesn’t need to be an expert to see that activities were escalating in an unhealthy, disturbing way.

Since there weren’t any reports of behavior issues at school, this situation seems to be overlaid with something I’d call “domination of the golden child”.
All imo

(wb, me3)

Well we do have the interview between Burke and the psychiatrist, and there is some information regarding family dynamics. Of course Burke was never brought back for follow-up as was recommended.

 

[questfortrue]

Well we do have the interview between Burke and the psychiatrist, and there is some information regarding family dynamics. Of course Burke was never brought back for follow-up as was recommended.

Yes, agree. Hints of dynamics in the interview. For me, it's simply been difficult to see this as innocent child experimentation. (I don't know where BR would fall on the experts' scale. FWIW, I don't think he was sociopathic or anything remotely like that.) Kolar reports being troubled by a photo he saw with BR peacefully smiling while his parents looked anguished. I never saw the photo, but I was bothered by something else in addition to BR’s interview with the psychologist. It’s chilling that he’s discussing only 2 days after JB's passing, whether manual strangulation played a role in her death. While children process death differently, to not see any signs of caring that she was gone . . . well it leaves me with questions.

'course we have PR's statements in interviews: "Not my child."

 

[bettybaby00]

Yes, agree. Hints of dynamics in the interview. For me, it's simply been difficult to see this as innocent child experimentation. (I don't know where BR would fall on the experts' scale. FWIW, I don't think he was sociopathic or anything remotely like that.) Kolar reports being troubled by a photo he saw with BR peacefully smiling while his parents looked anguished. I never saw the photo, but I was bothered by something else in addition to BR’s interview with the psychologist. It’s chilling that he’s discussing only 2 days after JB's passing, whether manual strangulation played a role in her death. While children process death differently, to not see any signs of caring that she was gone . . . well it leaves me with questions.

'course we have PR's statements in interviews: "Not my child."

In some regards his behavior is more troubling than his parents. During the interview he talks about "moving on " additionally, his mention of a knife as well as his imitation of the head blow action are troubling as those details weren't yet out in MSM.

The psychiatrist is concerned with his seemingly complete lack of affect, and for me doesn't fit with the circumstances. All my opinion of course.

 

[ukrberserker23]

For everyone who might feel that PR,JR,and BR could not collude together to commit this crime should watch this movie." The Girl Next Door." 2007. It is based on a true story written by Jack Ketchum. The only part in the movie that didn't happen was the boyfriend of the daughter. The rest of it actually happened.

 

[UKGuy]

Yes, agree. Hints of dynamics in the interview. For me, it's simply been difficult to see this as innocent child experimentation. (I don't know where BR would fall on the experts' scale. FWIW, I don't think he was sociopathic or anything remotely like that.) Kolar reports being troubled by a photo he saw with BR peacefully smiling while his parents looked anguished. I never saw the photo, but I was bothered by something else in addition to BR’s interview with the psychologist. It’s chilling that he’s discussing only 2 days after JB's passing, whether manual strangulation played a role in her death. While children process death differently, to not see any signs of caring that she was gone . . . well it leaves me with questions. 'course we have PR's statements in interviews: "Not my child."

questfortrue,How did BR know JonBenet was whacked on the Head? If one of the parents was responsible, surely they would prevent BR from viewing JonBenet's expired body. Was BR indirectly telling us he whacked JonBenet on the head, James Kolar suggested BR whacked JonBenet on the head in the Breakfast Bar with the flashlight. Could BR have possibly ritually assaulted JonBenet with the paintbrush handle?.

 

[DeeDee249]

The experts talk about a continuum of sexual behavior among kids.

With nothing more to go on than some information from the housekeeper, and some Boulder rumors, it’s difficult to tell much more about the dynamics here. I’d never hazard to guess how the experts would evaluate this family. But we’ve all read the reports - JB regressing in her toileting, seeming particularly stressed out that December, visitation to the school nurse on two Mondays, teacher reporting she was clingier to PR, and PR calling Dr. B 3 times on the 17th. (We can assume it was associated with something frightening to PR, or she wouldn’t have kept trying to reach him after hours.) One doesn’t need to be an expert to see that activities were escalating in an unhealthy, disturbing way.

Since there weren’t any reports of behavior issues at school, this situation seems to be overlaid with something I’d call “domination of the golden child”.
All imo

(wb, me3)

The school records and medical records of both children were sealed, so we really don't know if there were any behavior issues at school. There had to be some reason why JB seemed to need to visit the school nurse on a Monday. Something was going on in the R home that December- for sure. Some previous behavior must have escalated into something that was disturbing to JB. The parents knew or suspected- the GJ made that clear. I agree the phone calls to Dr B were a red flag. When questioned, Patsy claimed not to remember why she called- Ramnesia again. Believe me, a mother does not forget why she called her kid's doctor THREE times after hours in one night.

 

[questfortrue]

questfortrue,How did BR know JonBenet was whacked on the Head? If one of the parents was responsible, surely they would prevent BR from viewing JonBenet's expired body. Was BR indirectly telling us he whacked JonBenet on the head, James Kolar suggested BR whacked JonBenet on the head in the Breakfast Bar with the flashlight. Could BR have possibly ritually assaulted JonBenet with the paintbrush handle?.

Two interesting questions. IIRC, Kolar's doesn't specifically say that the Maglite was the weapon, nor have we read or heard him address a sexual assault by BR that late night in the breakfast bar area. So I'm limited in theorizing on those points. But no question who Kolar believes is responsible for the sexual injuries and probably the head strike, based on BR's interview with the psychologist. As far as how BR may know, speculation here, but either he was responsible for it, or witnessed it. (Remember the story told by Diane Hollis of Access Graphics about a caller claiming PR accidentally struck JB, when PR caught 'him' molesting?)

I’ve heard RDI with more than a decade studying this case saying they still aren’t sure who was responsible for the head strike. My first best guess is that BR struck her during her scream. And I don’t believe he confessed to that during the GJ proceedings; if he did and ML still went after JMK, came up with her tdna evidence of an intruder, then she should be investigated for a major public hoax. And that’s JMHO.

As far as 'ritualistic' paint brush injury, I don't know what the term 'ritualistic' in this context means. Going back to the autopsy, this statement “Acute inflammatory infiltrate is not seen” led pathologists/doctors who looked at this, to conclude the use of the paint brush on her was perpetrated while she was unconscious, but right before death.

Again, depending on one’s theory about the strangulation, guessing the conclusion about the paint brush will hang on how the strangulation happened. As you know (you’ve been studying this case for a lot longer than I have &#61514 it's always been suggested that the paintbrush injury was a 'cover' of some sort by one of the parents, to conceal the abuse. But I don’t discount a BR role, especially after hearing about the candy box smeared with feces.

All mho

 

[DeeDee249]

questfortrue,How did BR know JonBenet was whacked on the Head? If one of the parents was responsible, surely they would prevent BR from viewing JonBenet's expired body. Was BR indirectly telling us he whacked JonBenet on the head, James Kolar suggested BR whacked JonBenet on the head in the Breakfast Bar with the flashlight. Could BR have possibly ritually assaulted JonBenet with the paintbrush handle?.

The parents claimed they never discussed JB's murder/death with BR and according to insiders, BR never asked about it. His spoken wish to "move on" was DAYS after her death, not months or years. Odd and frankly, not believable IMO. His comments are those of someone who could have been there to see it.

 

[bettybaby00]

The school records and medical records of both children were sealed, so we really don't know if there were any behavior issues at school. There had to be some reason why JB seemed to need to visit the school nurse on a Monday. Something was going on in the R home that December- for sure. Some previous behavior must have escalated into something that was disturbing to JB. The parents knew or suspected- the GJ made that clear. I agree the phone calls to Dr B were a red flag. When questioned, Patsy claimed not to remember why she called- Ramnesia again. Believe me, a mother does not forget why she called her kid's doctor THREE times after hours in one night.

Completely agree with the BBM.

Something is serious if you're trying to get a hold of your child's dr 3x after hours. The "I don't remember" doesn't really fly given how close this occured to the night of the murder.

My daughter is about to turn 17, and I still vividly remember the details from the one time I had to try and get a hold of her pediatrician after hours when she was 4 years old.

Was he ever questioned about those phone calls?

 

[bettybaby00]

Two interesting questions. IIRC, Kolar's doesn't specifically say that the Maglite was the weapon, nor have we read or heard him address a sexual assault by BR that late night in the breakfast bar area. So I'm limited in theorizing on those points. But no question who Kolar believes is responsible for the sexual injuries and probably the head strike, based on BR's interview with the psychologist. As far as how BR may know, speculation here, but either he was responsible for it, or witnessed it. (Remember the story told by Diane Hollis of Access Graphics about a caller claiming PR accidentally struck JB, when PR caught 'him' molesting?)

I’ve heard RDI with more than a decade studying this case saying they still aren’t sure who was responsible for the head strike. My first best guess is that BR struck her during her scream. And I don’t believe he confessed to that during the GJ proceedings; if he did and ML still went after JMK, came up with her tdna evidence of an intruder, then she should be investigated for a major public hoax. And that’s JMHO.

As far as 'ritualistic' paint brush injury, I don't know what the term 'ritualistic' in this context means. Going back to the autopsy, this statement “Acute inflammatory infiltrate is not seen” led pathologists/doctors who looked at this, to conclude the use of the paint brush on her was perpetrated while she was unconscious, but right before death.

Again, depending on one’s theory about the strangulation, guessing the conclusion about the paint brush will hang on how the strangulation happened. As you know (you’ve been studying this case for a lot longer than I have &#61514 it's always been suggested that the paintbrush injury was a 'cover' of some sort by one of the parents, to conceal the abuse. But I don’t discount a BR role, especially after hearing about the candy box smeared with feces.

All mho

BBM

I forgot about that! And the whole lie detector saga

 

[elannia]

Here is the transcript of the beginning of the 911 call as reported in IRMI:

PR: (inaudible) police.
911: (inaudible)
PR: 755 Fifteenth Street
911: What is going on there, Ma’am?
PR: We have a kidnapping...Hurry, please
​

That’s two different people saying something “inaudible”. Listen first to the beginning of the recording here http://www.mediafire.com/listen/uoudcwjx9w3c2op/patsy911-FFJ_(2013_Cleanup).mp3 before reading the rest of this post or following any more of the links (in this post). See if you can understand what is said in the “inaudible” portions. (It’s important to listen before reading what I think is said so you aren’t influenced by anything other than your own thoughts.)

After you’ve listened to the beginning of the recording and tried to make out what is said, read this post from 11/10/13:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...ARNING-GRAPHIC-CONTENT)&p=9965848#post9965848.

One more alteration I would make to my earlier transcript, and that was from the following post by CircuitGuy a few days after I had posted it:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?116882-911-Call&p=9976307#post9976307

I agree with him that the first word spoken was “one”, and I think it was Burke’s voice asking why they were calling 911. So my revised (in red) version of the beginning of the 911 call would be as follows:

BR: (Why are you calling nine one)...one?
911: 911 emergency... (interrupted)
PR: Hon’, we need (mumbled syllable)...
(pause) POLICE!
911: What’s going on... (interrupted)
PR: 755 Fifteenth Street!
911: What’s going on there, Ma’am?
PR: We had a kidnapping. Hurry, please.
​

There is a comparison of the first two words repeated for comparison here:
http://www.mediafire.com/listen/uchke1pmj8cha4w/One+-+Hon%27+Comparison.mp3#39;_Comparison.mp3

Thanks. I listened to it and I have to say I was pretty creeped out while doing so.

 

[otg]

Thanks. I listened to it and I have to say I was pretty creeped out while doing so.

But what words do you hear?

 

[elannia]

But what words do you hear?

I heard something I couldnt make out (maybe one) then dispatcher says 911 emergency patsy says hon we need... then yells police

 

[UKGuy]

Thanks. I listened to it and I have to say I was pretty creeped out while doing so.

How does BR know 911 was dialled and not say the Chief of Police' Office?

 

[lawstudent]

How does BR know 911 was dialled and not say the Chief of Police' Office?

From your username I assume you are from the UK, and that it's different here, but you would always call 911 here for any emergency situation, and young kids are repeatedly told this in case they have to make the call. But I imagine, if he is asking that, he overheard or was told they had to call 911.

 

[UKGuy]

From your username I assume you are from the UK, and that it's different here, but you would always call 911 here for any emergency situation, and young kids are repeatedly told this in case they have to make the call. But I imagine, if he is asking that, he overheard or was told they had to call 911.

lawstudent,mmm, well if he out of the loop, for whatever reason, why tell him "Oh Burke we are dialling 911"? Else why does Burke need to question the 911 call at all?This looks more like a child left out of the staging loop who eventually realizes the 911 call might impact on him?

 

[questfortrue]

I heard something I couldnt make out (maybe one) then dispatcher says 911 emergency patsy says hon we need... then yells police

I heard something similar. And it’s the first time I’ve ever listened to the beginning with headphones. I heard what sounded like “one” to me. As perhaps she was explaining to someone in the room she was calling 911, and the number “1” overlapped while connection went through. Then the next statement on her part, “hon we need ‘em” would be a response to someone in the room asking why she was calling them. I imagine her explaining that to BR, but of course I don’t know. Next when I slowed the sound down, I detected some unease in her voice, as though perhaps someone else entered the room (JR?), and she subsequently is yelling “police” to establish she was on the phone with 911, and everyone should be quiet.

It's always struck me that PR was quick to say calling 911 was JR's idea, and he agreed that he told her to call. Wondered if PR were providing some story line to show they were of the same mind, or diverting the police attention away from any ideas that she may have made that decision on her own to call. :fishy:

moo

 

[lawstudent]

I would guess either Patsy told John she was calling 911 and Burke heard, or she told Burke to be quiet because she was on the phone with 911. If that's even what he asked. I think any kid who heard a parent was calling 911 would ask why, but I agree that it would suggest Burke did not know what was going on, or at least not all of it. I don't know what the background is since it's all still a mystery, but you asked why he didn't suspect they were calling the police chief. Calling the police chief isn't something that would be done as an alternative to 911, so it wouldn't be weird not to ask that.

 

[elannia]

Does anyone have any thoughts about JR stating there were alot of people there at 3 in the morning? Someone else had
Mentioned maybe they were lawyering up even before the 911 call. Everything I post is strictly MOO