Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 Jun 2014 - #11

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ldbd said:
Thinking if it was a situation where the toxin soaked rag and weapon were used in unison otto. But it is all so inconceivable how anyone could do this without injury to themselves or noise. Very confusing sadly.
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That's one of the reasons I contend that this was a bludgening blitz attack. Stabbing a victim can cut up your hands and it's not quick or effective. Gun seems unlikely for all the reasons mentioned in past threads. A toxin soaked rag wouldn't explain the blood evidence - why knock them out if your going to cause evidence to be left behind?

I still think this all was much more simple and quick.
 
otto said:
In a city where there is permafrost, a four level split would make more sense than a three level split, as there would need to be a four foot basement ... so why not make it 8 feet with useful living space.
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Permafrost???? There is no permafrost in Calgary, or Edmonton or other areas until you are farther north. Does the ground freeze in winter? Yes, because it's cold enough to do so in certain months, but it's not frozen all year round which is what permafrost is. The only place you'd have pockets of permanently frozen ground/rock this far south would be in the high altitudes of the mountains (same as in the US).

A quick google search will provide a map where permafrost exists.

In Canada (as well as areas in the US) homes have basements but it has nothing to do with permafrost. Houses have basements so that the furnace, hot water heater, electrical panel, water and sewer service, etc. are not in the main living space. Some of those items are noisy - who would want that on the same level as their living space? Having a basements also keeps the floor warmer in the cold months. If you don't have a basement (like a typical mobile home) you'd likely be insulating and heating the floor as well as all the water pipes coming into and out of the house. With a basement you wouldn't have critters taking up residence under the home as well.
 
bakerlady said:
If I was bankrupt and unemployed I would not purchase 2 homes. That reminds me of people who live in public housing and drive a BMW.

A home in Edmonton and one in Mazatlan could easily be at the very least $300,000. By my calculations it would be more like $600,000.

IMO AL was part of some secret business ventures.
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I think we need to clarify this again Winter Petroleum Ltd. was insolvent, AL was not. AL was not the only director of Winter Petroleum either. AL and KL sold the property belonging to AL (not Winter Petroleum Ltd. which was insolvent.) Retirement is not unemployment. So they buy a new property possibly in Evansburg where prices are exceedingly lower than Calgary ... noting that AL also had grandchildren and other family there (so the leaving the family and taking off scenario doesn't really fly,) and possibly another property (or maybe part owners with other family) in Mexico where you can also buy reasonably priced property. KL could possibly take up Real Estate in Mexico (I have a colleague who is retiring and moving 1/2 time to Mexico to do just that!) Why are we being so judgy and suspicious of retirement plans that have likely been in preparation for some time. Are there a few differing stories of what they were doing? ?? Yep ... maybe they were still firming things up, maybe people aren't recalling and or reporting things correctly .... their youngest son is a very young adult .... likely isn't the most reliable source of info given his current stress level and probably. Mexico and Edmonton (or Evansburg) are a constant in most of the accounts of their plans.
 
photo.jpg

Not sure if the image worked but I did a search in the Calgary police crime map for crimes of the theft, robbery and break in and homicide nature in Parkhill in the last 3 months. I am not sure if other areas turn up so many results but for a nice quiet neighbourhood, there seems to be a lot of activity.
 
news.talk said:
That's one of the reasons I contend that this was a bludgening blitz attack. Stabbing a victim can cut up your hands and it's not quick or effective. Gun seems unlikely for all the reasons mentioned in past threads. A toxin soaked rag wouldn't explain the blood evidence - why knock them out if your going to cause evidence to be left behind?

I still think this all was much more simple and quick.
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Well this may be the first you ever heard of this method of knocking people unconscious but this is a regular occurrence in South Africa. This happened to my niece. All she was left with was a nasty headache and the bed she was sleeping on. Everything of any value was gone.
Robbers burn CDs to knock out victims - South Africa | IOL News ...
www.iol.co.za/.../south.../robbers-burn-cds-to-knock-out-victims-1.216782
Jul 9, 2004 - Everyone knows about "burning" a CD - computer jargon for copying ... " Apparently the smoke of the CD knocks you out and you sleep while ...
http://www.iol.co.za/news/south-africa/robbers-burn-cds-to-knock-out-victims-1.216782
 
I would not start assuming someone had secret business ventures because their business went bankrupt and they still had considerable personal assets.

Your business can go bankrupt but personally you can be solvent. The business is an entity unto itself.

.... sometimes people do qualify for public housing and drive a BMW. Having worked at a collection agency myself, it is possible to have assets but no cash flow to pay bills. Qualifying for public housing may not include consideration of assets owned, it just depends on the terms used to qualify.
 
Cherchri said:
Well this may be the first you ever heard of this method of knocking people unconscious but this is a regular occurrence in South Africa. This happened to my niece. All she was left with was a nasty headache and the bed she was sleeping on. Everything of any value was gone.
Robbers burn CDs to knock out victims - South Africa | IOL News ...
www.iol.co.za/.../south.../robbers-burn-cds-to-knock-out-victims-1.216782
Jul 9, 2004 - Everyone knows about "burning" a CD - computer jargon for copying ... " Apparently the smoke of the CD knocks you out and you sleep while ...
http://www.iol.co.za/news/south-africa/robbers-burn-cds-to-knock-out-victims-1.216782
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Just to clarify... I never said it was the first time I heard of *knocking people out* - I said it wouldn't make sense with the blood evidence.
 
goodasgold said:
I have asked this exact same question and still it bothers me. Why didn't she just say 10:00 pm when she left as the public knew that. Here are some lingering ideas. 1) Maybe AL and NO were gone somewhere like a store when she left. 2)Maybe she put NO to bed earlier like around 8:00 pm. 3)Maybe DG was even there when she left "talking to AL".

He was PG's brother so even if they did not like him they would not have been afraid of him. Before the murder charges i thought maybe the reason was NO slept through it and she saw him the next morning, however, they had to pretend he was missing due to witness protection for NO so the perpetrator would not come back for him someday. Unfortunately now that is not looking like the case. That would have been the best answer tho because that would have explained why she said no comment if she in fact seen him after 10:00 pm and could not admit it and would explain why it only shows two homicides at that residence. JMO
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I think they were all instructed not to answer any questions related to the crime scene. I believe that JO looks to her right off screen for confirmation of her "No comment" answer.
 
WARNING GRAPHIC DETAIL


bakerlady said:
Here is another theory of mine. Maybe DG stopped by the estate sale earlier in the day and looked around to see if there was anything of interest. He could have arranged to come back later to pick something up. He could have had a chat with AL that ticked him off for whatever reason. He could have stopped by just for a chat.

We don't really know the essence of their relationship. Sometimes people get into petty arguments yet still remain outwardly civil, especially when they are family, even tho deep inside they hate each other. We don't know if the petty argument about a patent was old news or still a fresh and open wound. We don't know if there was something new to add to DG's frustrations with AL.

Anyhow, I imagine that DG was in the area and possibly visited the home before 10PM that night. His truck was seen SEVERAL times as per LE.

The front of the home is wide open and if the neighbors stepped outside they could see everything that was going on in that driveway.

https://www.google.com/maps/@51.019...ata=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1smjdDPdowu0QJO3KIaGtwrw!2e0

Was this a silent crime? How could it be? He must have had some cojones to bring 3 people in the front of the house like that. He could have been caught any time.
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Here's how it could be a silent crime. They are all asleep. DG walks in through an unlocked door, bashes in their heads quickly. Bang one hard enough that he is unconscious. Bang person 2 into unconsciousness. Return to person one to make sure they are dead and not unconscious, several more bashes. Repeat for the second person. Perhaps NO is in bed with them. Or, maybe he's up to go to the bathroom. Or, maybe he's a light sleeper and hears something and calls out to his Grandma. And thus comes to DG's attention. DG panics because he is off-plan now and unfortunately and horribly sadly does the first thing that comes into his mind.
 
Tealgrove said:
IMO I don't think it was "time that went by" that dashed their hopes. I believe it was forensic (DNA) evidence at the Parkhill house that determined that they were ALL dead. To be perfectly honest, I believe wholeheartedly that LE believed that they were dead from the beginning. They held out hope that perhaps NO was being held in the belief that someone wouldn't kill a 5 year old child just because he was there.

When I look back at some of the pictures of JO and RO in the early days, RO could not stop crying and JO was beyond numb. Her eyes were dead. In retrospect, they knew. Their grief was so palpable it actually aches me to look at those early day pictures now. I can't even begin to imagine.

I'm sorry, I don't believe time was the issue. I believe that the crime scene told a very violent and graphic story. I think LE tempered their comments in the off chance that NO had been kidnapped however the evidence told a different truth.

This is all my own opinion.
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JMO but even if my child were alive and missing i would be devastated, worried, scared and crying. So i can see RO having that reaction to just NO being missing and possibly witnessing his grandparents be murdered.
 
otto said:
This is the same image enlarged
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I stand corrected. Although this image has the arrow pointing to the wrong house, I overlayed this on top of a current google map image of the neighbourhood and it looks like the roof lines are the same from the old photo to the current one.
 
Leeman68 said:
I stand corrected. Although this image has the arrow pointing to the wrong house, I overlayed this on top of a current google map image of the neighbourhood and it looks like the roof lines are the same from the old photo to the current one.
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Very impressed, and a bit green with envy that you knew how to do that! :)
 
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