HCPD contacts Florida LE about skeletal remains that were found

[lstiff]

That's what I remember reading as well and why I didn't think they were Heather. How could they be unless a chemical agent of some kind was used to promote decomp?

Would it be too far fetched to think that TM would search for something like that? I wouldn't put it past her. If not HE then where is she? Didn't the Ms take a trip out West shortly after HE went missing? That is still in the back of my mind.

 

[OkieGranny]

Would it be too far fetched to think that TM would search for something like that? I wouldn't put it past her. If not HE then where is she? Didn't the Ms take a trip out West shortly after HE went missing? That is still in the back of my mind.

The trip out west was before Heather went missing.

 

[Motherof5]

That's something that keeps making me think back to the original news that remains have been found. Near complete or complete skeleton - who exactly said that first? Was it the VCSO? Reason I'm asking is bc of some wording bolded below in an article from March 20th 2014 shortly after the remains were found... They say "begun decomposing" and also reference "bags" (plural). So is this just shoddy wording? I mean, if the remains were completely skeletal, then it's obvious decomposition had begun for crying out loud. Normally if there's still meat on the bones is when decomposing remains would be referenced. Idk, I'm probably looking too far into it. Maybe the reference to skeletal or near complete skeletal was used to define the full remains was found as opposed to the length of decomposition.

http://www.baynews9.com/content/new...icles/cfn/2014/3/20/deland_remains_found.html

Human remains found in trash bag near DeLand airport
By Saul Saenz, Volusia County Reporter
Last Updated: Thursday, March 20, 2014, 7:33 PM

I got the condition of the remains from the report released that included the robe, curtains and sheet.

 

[Jersey*Girl]

Question regarding an accelerated rate of decomp... If a person is killed, bagged, then their body put into a freezer for awhile, if they're taken out of the freezer and dumped somewhere hot & moist, could that accelerate decomp based on the water & fluids that would have been stored in them? I'm wondering how defrost could play a part in decomposing human remains when dealing with tropical weather & surroundings.

 

[Jersey*Girl]

The Volusia County Sheriff's office said on their fb page that this was a "bag of bones."

https://www.facebook.com/VolusiaCountySheriff (gotta scroll down to March 20, 2014 and then click on comments)

That's what I remember reading as well and why I didn't think they were Heather. How could they be unless a chemical agent of some kind was used to promote decomp?

Would it be too far fetched to think that TM would search for something like that? I wouldn't put it past her. If not HE then where is she? Didn't the Ms take a trip out West shortly after HE went missing? That is still in the back of my mind.

I got the condition of the remains from the report released that included the robe, curtains and sheet.

Question regarding an accelerated rate of decomp... If a person is killed, bagged, then their body put into a freezer for awhile, if they're taken out of the freezer and dumped somewhere hot & moist, could that accelerate decomp based on the water & fluids that would have been stored in them? I'm wondering how defrost could play a part in decomposing human remains when dealing with tropical weather & surroundings.

WOW! I found the answer to my own question! I think I remember reading something like this back when Caylee's remains were being searched for bc alot of people thought they should be looking for a body but a w people with background knowledge said no way & that they should be looking for bones... These remains very well could be Heather when considering that heat & moisture definitely plays a factor. According to this, a body decomposing in Florida coud reach the skeletal stage in just a week! & regarding my post earlier about how it was worded in the article, it's worded correctly as its the last stage of measurable decomp.

http://forensics4fiction.com/2011/12/10/the-five-stages-of-decomposition/

Dry/Skeletal:
This phase is the last measurable stage of decomposition. The timing of this stage varies widely by environment. For example, a body in Florida in July (hot/humid) may reach this stage in a week while in the Winter in the Rocky Mountains (cold/arid) it might take months. If there is any skin left it will be leather-like and very tough. Mostly the body is reduced to bones and connective tissue. There is no biomass available for diverse insect colonization. Some beetles and adventitious insects may colonize a body for shelter or feeding on other insects and connective tissue. Over time the bones may “bleach” (turn white) with exposure to sunlight and eventually will begin to exhibit cracks after several years. These weathering cracks are distinctive and would not be confused with a fresh break (injury) unless by an inexperienced analyst.

 

[carbuff]

That's what I remember reading as well and why I didn't think they were Heather. How could they be unless a chemical agent of some kind was used to promote decomp?

One of the more persistent rumor/speculation about Heather is that they did do something like that to her remains.

Here's the other thing I'm starting to wonder: what if Heather wasn't the first?

 

[Jersey*Girl]

Now I wonder how long it would take for the bag with remains inside to make a depression in the ground. Also, how long for roots to grow through it. I remember in Caylee's case, certain plants/roots were growing through her bones and she was only there for 7 or so months.

 

[Jersey*Girl]

One of the more persistent rumor/speculation about Heather is that they did do something like that to her remains.

Here's the other thing I'm starting to wonder: what if Heather wasn't the first?

Double wow. Freaks me out.

 

[Motherof5]

One of the more persistent rumor/speculation about Heather is that they did do something like that to her remains.

Here's the other thing I'm starting to wonder: what if Heather wasn't the first?

I don't think she was the first....don't get me started.

 

[Ghostwheel]

Now I wonder how long it would take for the bag with remains inside to make a depression in the ground. Also, how long for roots to grow through it. I remember in Caylee's case, certain plants/roots were growing through her bones and she was only there for 7 or so months.

I know they make a depression in my back yard within a month. (see my previous post on why I have these bags in my yard most years). Within a week, grass and weeds underneath die and start to decompose. Once the bag starts to decompose (again, some of mine have within a month, and some have not) and other plants start to grow through the broken parts of the bag. If the bag had a rip in it for some other reason (a stick poked through, I dropped it on a rock and scraped a hole in it, etc) then plants will start growing in it as soon as they start growing, not waiting for the bag to decompose, but speeding the bag's decomposition. It depends on the circumstances, but because of my own experience with plastic garbage bags, I can't rule these remains out (for being Heather) unless I knew exactly what the bag looked like. And if the bag had a hole or holes in it when it was first left, that would speed decomposition of whatever was inside.

I will say that I would assume TM and SM know these remains have been found and if they left them there, I would think one would roll over on the other. JMO.

 

[Ghostwheel]

Hmmm...that makes me think... Is it possible the person was in the pink bathrobe when they were killed and wrapped in the Mickey Mouse sheet but maybe it wasn't thick enough or strong enough so the murderer wrapped curtains around the body? If so, the curtains would sustain more damage from the sun & elements being on the outside I would think. Or no? Heck, maybe the MM sheet would bc of decomp & skin slippage? But if that's the case then wouldn't the robe have had the most damage since it would have been the body?

Egads! I just wigged myself out! Who's on first?

As another thought, if the bones were just bones when they were put in the bag, they might be wrapped in all those layers to keep them from breaking the bag. Or if the body were not intact, same reasoning.

Whomever was in that bag, I hope they are identified at some point. Their family would probably like to give them a proper burial/funeral.

 

[SStarr33]

That's what I remember reading as well and why I didn't think they were Heather. How could they be unless a chemical agent of some kind was used to promote decomp?

Maybe that is why the police chief called it a heinous crime? They found evidence of a google search for that chemical agent?

 

[Tulessa]

Caylee was in the elements for 6 months. From June-December. IIRC!

 

[carbuff]

I can't find something I'm looking for. Somebody posted that TM bought Disney stuff on Etsy and posted about it on one of the Disney forums. What was the date of that post?

 

[SStarr33]

I can't find something I'm looking for. Somebody posted that TM bought Disney stuff on Etsy and posted about it on one of the Disney forums. What was the date of that post?

Is this it?

http://www.disboards.com/archive/index.php/t-3011143.html

 

[carbuff]

Yes, that's it, thanks.

 

[Jersey*Girl]

Caylee was in the elements for 6 months. From June-December. IIRC!

Thanks Tulessa. I was thinking it was from May, not June. I forgot, there's so many other kids that have gone missing & discovered murdered since then that I got confused.

 

[Jersey*Girl]

I wonder why the sex of the remains is still not known. Could it be that the remains are of a very young petite adult so they're pelvic bone isn't fully matured yet? What is the normal of maturation for such? If a female started her period in her later teen years instead of earlier on, would that be a sign that her pelvic bone wouldn't be fully mature if she's in her young 20's?

http://anthropology.si.edu/writteninbone/male_female.html

This table outlines the differences between a male and female pelvis.

Male:
narrower, heart-shaped pelvic inlet
open, circular pelvic inlet
narrower sciatic notch
broader sciatic notch
narrower angle where the two pubic bones meet in front

Female:
open, circular pelvic inlet
narrower sciatic notch
broader sciatic notch
narrower angle where the two pubic bones meet in front
wider angle where the two pubic bones meet in front
more outwardly flared hip bones

Fact:
Sex-related skeletal features are not obvious in children's bones. Subtle differences are detectable, but they become more defined following puberty and sexual maturation.

 

[Motherof5]

I wonder why the sex of the remains is still not known. Could it be that the remains are of a very young petite adult so they're pelvic bone isn't fully matured yet? What is the normal of maturation for such? If a female started her period in her later teen years instead of earlier on, would that be a sign that her pelvic bone wouldn't be fully mature if she's in her young 20's?

http://anthropology.si.edu/writteninbone/male_female.html

This table outlines the differences between a male and female pelvis.

Male:
narrower, heart-shaped pelvic inlet
open, circular pelvic inlet
narrower sciatic notch
broader sciatic notch
narrower angle where the two pubic bones meet in front

Female:
open, circular pelvic inlet
narrower sciatic notch
broader sciatic notch
narrower angle where the two pubic bones meet in front
wider angle where the two pubic bones meet in front
more outwardly flared hip bones

Fact:
Sex-related skeletal features are not obvious in children's bones. Subtle differences are detectable, but they become more defined following puberty and sexual maturation.

I had asked about this earlier and I can only assume that the pelvis is damaged in some way? I dunno *sigh*

 

[Motherof5]

Is this it?

http://www.disboards.com/archive/index.php/t-3011143.html

Couple of things that I missed after reading this before. TM talks about ordering journals which creeps me out because LE found journals with info on the Elvis family during their search. Also...TM says that she can't keep a secret. Ugh...spill already!!!!!!!