Discussion between the verdict and sentencing

[lithgow1]

Well it's something:

http://zeenews.india.com/sports/oth...-at-future-diamond-league-events_1470039.html

 

[Suthrnqt]

BIB .. I'm not just inclined to think that, I'm convinced of it. I believe she worked backwards (i.e. from a position of not wanting to send him to jail), and therefore made the verdict of CH her starting point, then pick and mixed her reasons for arriving at that decision, throwing out anything that didn't fit.

^^^^^This.
I am convinced that is exactly what happened.

 

[jay-jay]

Just posting this link for anyone who hasn't yet seen it .. it's a page on facebook in support of Gerrie Nel and the PT .. now has 25,556 'likes' and counting .. https://www.facebook.com/GerrieNel.RSA?fref=ts .. please give them your support if you can, hopefully Mr Nel looks in from time to time!

 

[pandax81]

The judgement in writing:
http://www.pod702.co.za/Eyewitnessnews/docs/140915OPJudgment.pdf

 

[jslk]

Still depressed about this [emoji17] the juror13 blog is excellent.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Mr Fossil]

The judgement in writing:
http://www.pod702.co.za/Eyewitnessnews/docs/140915OPJudgment.pdf

Thanks panda. I see it's a transcription service so does this mean that it is merely a write up of what Masipa said rather than her official written judg(e)ment? I was hoping we would get more explanation from her.

 

[pandax81]

Thanks panda. I see it's a transcription service so does this mean that it is merely a write up of what Masipa said rather than her official written judg(e)ment? I was hoping we would get more explanation from her.

I believe she read her official judgement into the record, so they are one and the same.

 

[KarenUK]

FYI Australian Newscorp article:

http://www.news.com.au/entertainmen...ery-wrong-about-that/story-fna50uae-122705907

Oscar Pistorius Set to Write Book. We Think There’s Something Very Wrong About That
33 MINUTES AGO SEPTEMBER 15, 2014 2:05PM

"...This doesn’t seem even halfway right... Reeva Steenkamp never got to have her say. Oscar Pistorius had his say in court and elsewhere. The world really doesn’t need to hear any more from him in any arena, whether in print, on an athletics track, or anywhere."...

I'm assuming that there isnt a law regarding not making money off a criminal conviction (like the Son of Sam Law) in South Africa? :notgood::maddening:

 

[akp]

Still doesn't do it for me. That means he'd be out in 2 1/2 years. A slap on the wrist for a person's life. Oh, golly gosh, he'd miss the 2016 Olympics. What a shame.

I agree. He should get a minimum of 15 years IMO (and more if an appeal is successful). I posted this because I'd understood CH had no minimum and this view seemed to say it is a minimum 5 years in this instance (though I guess, as lithgow1 observes, it could be suspended).

No amount of jail term is going to compensate for the `fact' that he didn't murder Reeva, but was only negligent. Jail term, if any, will get over, but this `fact' will stay on record. Unless of course there is a review and a reversal.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

FYI Australian Newscorp article:

http://www.news.com.au/entertainmen...ery-wrong-about-that/story-fna50uae-122705907

Oscar Pistorius Set to Write Book. We Think There’s Something Very Wrong About That
33 MINUTES AGO SEPTEMBER 15, 2014 2:05PM

"...This doesn’t seem even halfway right... Reeva Steenkamp never got to have her say. Oscar Pistorius had his say in court and elsewhere. The world really doesn’t need to hear any more from him in any arena, whether in print, on an athletics track, or anywhere."...

As for what form the book will take, Pistorius’s manager, Peet van Zyl, was tight-lipped overnight. “We’ve talked about ideas and concepts. I’m not going to go into details,” he said.

If I was OP's manager PvZ I would have distanced myself from such a client since a long time.

 

[Giles]

“He stated that if he wanted to shoot the intruder he would have fired higher up and more in the direction where the opening of the door would be, to the far right of the door and at chest height”.

RSBM

directly after this she says:

"I pause to state that this assertion is inconsistent with that of someone who shot without thinking. I shall revert to this later in my judgement. "

It's all very confusing.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

What I found particularly galling was when Masipa was going through Prof Saayman’s testimony and said, after talking about the shot to the head, “In my view this means the deceased would have been unable to shout or scream, at least not in the manner described by those witnesses who were adamant that they had heard a woman scream repeatedly”, but conveniently omitted to refer to Saayman’s testimony that he would have been surprised if she hadn’t screamed after the shot to the hip.

If she threw out the testimony of all the ear witnesses as being unreliable, why does she then choose to include the time that OP was heard to call help from those same ear witnesses.

Why didn’t she mention that it would have been impossible to strike the door in the same quick succession as a gun?

I want to know from the judge: What makes it logical that an adult man (OP) screams in mortal terror just before/while he is shooting 4 Black Talons at a door with "intruder" behind??? One can not assume that a man would do something like that! IMO

 

[Jake18]

I know lots of people cite various aspects of the case that they wish the PT had covered more thoroughly but the extent of the public outrage following this verdict is a testament to how good a job Nel did.

 

[JudgeJudi]

PUBLISHED 15 September - 1 hour ago

"If Pistorius were to publish a book, he would risk breaking South Africa's laws which stipulate that no person subject to a criminal conviction may derive profit "directly or indirectly for any published account" relating to the offence in question.

"This means he would be legally barred from making money from a memoir in connection with the death of his girlfriend while serving jail time or community service for the killing of Ms Steenkamp".

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/p...k-about-reeva-steenkamp-shooting-9733062.html

 

[Jake18]

What I found particularly galling was when Masipa was going through Prof Saayman’s testimony and said, after talking about the shot to the head, “In my view this means the deceased would have been unable to shout or scream, at least not in the manner described by those witnesses who were adamant that they had heard a woman scream repeatedly”, but conveniently omitted to refer to Saayman’s testimony that he would have been surprised if she hadn’t screamed after the shot to the hip.

If she threw out the testimony of all the ear witnesses as being unreliable, why does she then choose to include the time that OP was heard to call help from those same ear witnesses.

Why didn’t she mention that it would have been impossible to strike the door in the same quick succession as a gun?

BIB When she read that out I could actually feel my blood pressure rising.

 

[K.T]

Does this 23 year old Supreme Court decision may not allow the State to appeal?? http://www.dispatchlive.co.za/gen/oscar-verdict-a-done-deal/

1. Judge Masipa ruling seems to either have couple of facts of law, or application of law, incorrect.

2. The fact State cannot appeal facts of law is problematic, obviously if the most famous trial in SA history can have this many legal issues shows a curious level of incompetence. There should be some precedent set that if more than two facts of law are seen to be incorrect the State should be allowed to appeal, tightening up the quality of work of the judiciary.

3. If the State can only appeal "complete" acquittals this doesn't engender much confidence in the trial process.

 

[Suthrnqt]

PUBLISHED 15 September - 1 hour ago

"If Pistorius were to publish a book, he would risk breaking South Africa's laws which stipulate that no person subject to a criminal conviction may derive profit "directly or indirectly for any published account" relating to the offence in question.

"This means he would be legally barred from making money from a memoir in connection with the death of his girlfriend while serving jail time or community service for the killing of Ms Steenkamp".

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/p...k-about-reeva-steenkamp-shooting-9733062.html

Thanks for posting this. Great find Judgejudi. :thumbup::thumbup:
I know we all had an extensive discussion about this.

 

[KarenUK]

What I found particularly galling was when Masipa was going through Prof Saayman’s testimony and said, after talking about the shot to the head, “In my view this means the deceased would have been unable to shout or scream, at least not in the manner described by those witnesses who were adamant that they had heard a woman scream repeatedly”, but conveniently omitted to refer to Saayman’s testimony that he would have been surprised if she hadn’t screamed after the shot to the hip.

If she threw out the testimony of all the ear witnesses as being unreliable, why does she then choose to include the time that OP was heard to call help from those same ear witnesses.

Why didn’t she mention that it would have been impossible to strike the door in the same quick succession as a gun?

If I was one of those ear witnesses I would have been absolutely furious listening to her dismissal of their testimonies, basically they have over-active imaginations and have been naively led by media reports into thinking they heard something that in OP's version didnt happen. How utterly patronising.

And why would a gunshoot wound to the hip rend a person incapable of screaming? :maddening:
Sorry, I need to go put the kettle on and calm down before I go off on a rant :gaah: So many elements of this outcome and the Judges statements have made my blood boil!

 

[JudgeJudi]

I want to know from the judge: What makes it logical that an adult man (OP) screams in mortal terror just before/while he is shooting 4 Black Talons at a door with "intruder" behind??? One can not assume that a man would do something like that! IMO

I don't think he behaves like a man ... full stop. Men don't scream. Men shout, yell, roar, bellow etc. In my mind women scream. And all that "terror". I've never ever heard a man say he was terrified, that's another one for the ladies IMO. More likely a man would say "I was scared ****less". And then there's all that crying. I find it extremely distressing to see a real man cry, but he just turns it on like a tap. He's disgusting and despicable.

 

[Jake18]

Does this 23 year old Supreme Court decision may not allow the State to appeal?? http://www.dispatchlive.co.za/gen/oscar-verdict-a-done-deal/

1. Judge Masipa ruling seems to either have couple of facts of law, or application of law, incorrect.

2. The fact State cannot appeal facts of law is problematic, obviously if the most famous trial in SA history can have this many legal issues shows a curious level of incompetence. There should be some precedent set that if more than two facts of law are seen to be incorrect the State should be allowed to appeal, tightening up the quality of work of the judiciary.

3. If the State can only appeal "complete" acquittals this doesn't engender much confidence in the trial process.

But he was completely acquitted of the State's charges of murder, wasn't he?

I have no idea about any form of law, let alone SA law. So far it seems to be about 80:20 in favour of appeal from those SA law pundits who have made their views known, some criminal lawyers, some not.