Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 Jun 2014 - #15

[OutOfTheDarkness]

Just yesterday, I saw 3 people walking to the store in their pyjamas...I live in a very nice neighborhood too so I doubt it makes that much difference weather KL was in pj's or not if DG was coming to claim furniture...pj's don't look the way they used to...not all look like lingerie or bunting bags anymore...lol

Indeed... my point was simply that most people, especially in the previous generation, wouldn't tend to change into pajamas if they were expecting a "stranger". It hints that they weren't expecting anyone. Disclaimer below applies...

 

[OutOfTheDarkness]

There is at least one newspaper article which seems to state something a little different than the rest.. unless perhaps you WSer's know of more info on this.. so... do we take this as bad reporting/error, or as this newspaper got some kind of different information from LE? Has anyone seen anything to suggest that his truck was actually 'parked' at the house on that fateful weekend? (BBM)



http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/airdrie-calgary-struggle-with-grim-puzzle/article19682368/?page=all

I do believe we scrutinized that article for it's inaccuracies, which were many.

 

[Blue Amethyst]

Maybe he was cleaning out his office at Winter Petroleum?

Speaking of Winter Petroleum, is it possible that DG may have invested a lot of money in this company only to lose it when bankruptcy was declared. That also happened coincidently at the time of the murders.

 

[Tinkerbel1]

Indeed... my point was simply that most people, especially in the previous generation, wouldn't tend to change into pajamas if they were expecting a "stranger". It hints that they weren't expecting anyone. Disclaimer below applies...

Lol illowfight:

 

[LoisLane]

They may have known about the criminal offences without knowing the alias DG used. It was pretty far back in his past.
IMHO

Yes, however if DG's family was aware of the alias I am sure it would have been relayed to Allen at some point as PG was the common link between the family. If I new of such a detail it would be something I would remember and would always be in the back of my mind when dealing with DG. IMO.

 

[OutOfTheDarkness]

C'mon you guys! Tell me if there is a mirror on those 2 truck pics which LE released?

I looked at that a while ago and couldn't tell for certain. Compared to images of similar makes and models, there is a funny colored area where a mirror should be. I couldn't quite make sense of the missing mirror comment either.

 

[LoisLane]

Another weird thing in that same newspaper article.. I wonder where AL was and why he was rather invisible during the sale?: (BBM)

It was discussed way back. I think the theory was that he was emptying his business location as it was the final weekend for that.

 

[LoisLane]

Speaking of Winter Petroleum, is it possible that DG may have invested a lot of money in this company only to lose it when bankruptcy was declared. That also happened coincidently at the time of the murders.

I found this... Mr. Kozera said the reputed patent dispute between Mr. Garland and Mr. Liknes occurred “before Alvin’s joining Winter. He never mentioned [Douglas Garland] and Winter had no dealings with this man.”

http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/0...glas-garland-over-patent-calgary-family-says/

 

[wendiesan]

Another weird thing in that same newspaper article.. I wonder where AL was and why he was rather invisible during the sale?: (BBM)

IIRC, one of the neighbours had seen AL watching NO as he played in the park at some point during the sale. It's possible that while KL and JO and possibly other family members helped with the sale, AL was both cleaning up his office and taking the time to watch NO.

I'll check for a reference when I get back tonight if no one can confirm that in the meantime.

 

[deugirtni]

Yes, I recall that news article. I wonder which day that was that the neighbour saw AL in the back.

IIRC, one of the neighbours had seen AL watching NO as he played in the park at some point during the sale. It's possible that while KL and JO and possibly other family members helped with the sale, AL was both cleaning up his office and taking the time to watch NO.

I'll check for a reference when I get back tonight if no one can confirm that in the meantime.

 

[deugirtni]

To me it definitely looks like there is a mirror present on the driver's side, and considering there were only 2 photos released by LE, both showing the driver's side, I am confused about the neighbour saying he immediately recognized the truck as being DG's since it had no mirror. Showed it to husband also, who knows his trucks, and he swears it is a mirror there also.

I looked at that a while ago and couldn't tell for certain. Compared to images of similar makes and models, there is a funny colored area where a mirror should be. I couldn't quite make sense of the missing mirror comment either.

 

[otto]

lol... I wasn't actually looking for a link... that was a demonstration that there is no link that says absolutely the truck in the video was his, yet some *speculate* that as fact.

It goes to the broader discussion about open forum brainstorming vs. limiting discussion to only facts presented with a link. Even with the links, it has been demonstrated time and again that quoting MSM, or presenting a limited scope of information can be misleading, and or completely incorrect.

Sometimes common sense is enough to draw conclusions. There are two possibilities regarding the truck in question: the green truck that police sought was located, or it wasn't. Police may not have located the truck in question, but after confiscating an identical truck belonging to the accused, they quit looking for the truck and they charged the owner of the green truck with three counts of murder.

Do we need police to tell us that they the found green Ford truck?

 

[deugirtni]

It seems that article is CHOCK FULL of errors, wow!
i) truck was 'parked' at the Liknes residence
ii) "Both men may have also shared investments that went badly." - nowhere else have I read that DG had invested in companies owned by AL, or which AL had also invested in
iii)"According to Winter Petroleum’s former chief operating officer, the firm had been a mess before going under. Former employees and creditors lost money." - I haven't read anywhere else that employees were owed money?

I do believe we scrutinized that article for it's inaccuracies, which were many.

 

[otto]

"It is a fact that the victims have not in any way been connected with drugs, the mafia, the underground, or bikers"

I'm sorry....how is this a fact? Unless you have some inside information that isn't being shared...we have no idea if this is true or not. The O&G industry is full of the seedier side...transiebt people, deals, connections. There's no way, without an in depth investigation of AL's business deals, connections, employees, investors, etc...that anyone can say there wasn't at the very least an indirect association, if not direct. Big business, big money, big players...very often comes with BIG troubles.

If the victims have been connected with drugs, mafia, the underground, or bikers, please post a link to support that claim.
Without a link to support the claim, it is a fact that the victims have not in any way been connected with the above.

Perhaps when people see Nexen or Cenovus employees taking lunch breaks in their suits, they imagine that they are seedy, transient (not sure what a transient oil/gas employee is) weirdos making deals and connections ... I don't know why anyone would think that ... but perhaps they do. The facts of the case are straight forward, and there is no factual information connecting the victims to drugs.

In fact, I think it's absolutely bizarre that anyone thinks that the Calgary oil and gas industry is filled with transient, seedy people. How in the world can Calgary be leading the Canadian oil industry if the employees are such questionable characters. How about a reality check. Check out the Calgary oil/gas industry before suggesting that they're a bunch of seedy transients.

 

[otto]

Speaking of Winter Petroleum, is it possible that DG may have invested a lot of money in this company only to lose it when bankruptcy was declared. That also happened coincidently at the time of the murders.

That's an interesting point! It wouldn't surprise me at all if Alvin solicited investments from everyone he knew, including his daughter in law's family. If the accused put everything in one basket, and lost it all, he could have been angry enough to retaliate.

 

[deugirtni]

In a word, 'yes'!
Why? Because although they did find 'a' green truck, only evidence will prove that it is 'the' green truck. People HAVE in the past been wrongfully accused and even convicted here in this country. It has happened numerous times. It has happened that police focus on one thing, and then look for everything to fit neatly into that one thing, instead of looking out at everything to see where that everything may lead.
Police were tipped off that DG owned a green truck similar to the one pictured in the 2 photos released by LE. LE then went to the property, found DG's similar truck, took it away for examination, and took DG in for questioning. A day later, DG was released from questioning, because at that point LE had no choice but to let him go, or charge him. They did not have enough to charge him at that point, so they released him from questioning. If the truck had blood in it, which it presumably would have if these bodies were dragged down that stained walkway, LE would have seen it, and would have arrested him. Instead, in order to keep him detained for longer than they could rightfully detain him in regard to the murders, they charged him with the fake ID/impersonation charges. He was later released on $750 bail. By that time, LE had been combing his property with a fine toothed comb for days, taking whatever they felt could potentially be evidence, and re-arrested him after he was let out on bail, charging him with the murders and saying there was no smoking gun. Blood or evidence in the truck would have been a smoking gun, I would think, IMOO. We don't know if the truck was returned, or if DG would have to pick up the truck from a compound somewhere if it had been released, or if LE is keeping it as evidence, since LE is being very tight lipped about everything. Sometimes, what may seem like common sense, makes people come to conclusions before an accused has his day in court. I, for one, am dying to hear about all of this circumstantial evidence they have gathered, before I reach a guilty verdict.

Sometimes common sense is enough to draw conclusions. There are two possibilities regarding the truck in question: the green truck that police sought was located, or it wasn't. Police may not have located the truck in question, but after confiscating an identical truck belonging to the accused, they quit looking for the truck and they charged the owner of the green truck with three counts of murder.

Do we need police to tell us that they the found green Ford truck?

 

[otto]

Regarding the allegation that oil and gas employees are seedy, transient people that are busy making deals and connections, let's consider for a moment that both of Nathan's parents, and his grandfather, are/were oil and gas employees. I am actually offended that anyone would generalize about the oil industry in that way. In reality, oil/gas industry employees are professional, hard working engineers, engineering technologists, accountants, lawyers, and other professionals that conduct themselves according to the expectations of their profession. They should not under any circumstances be portrayed as seedy, transient people that have drug connections.

 

[otto]

In a word, 'yes'!
Why? Because although they did find 'a' green truck, only evidence will prove that it is 'the' green truck. People HAVE in the past been wrongfully accused and even convicted here in this country. It has happened numerous times. It has happened that police focus on one thing, and then look for everything to fit neatly into that one thing, instead of looking out at everything to see where that everything may lead.
Police were tipped off that DG owned a green truck similar to the one pictured in the 2 photos released by LE. LE then went to the property, found DG's similar truck, took it away for examination, and took DG in for questioning. A day later, DG was released from questioning, because at that point LE had no choice but to let him go, or charge him. They did not have enough to charge him at that point, so they released him from questioning. If the truck had blood in it, which it presumably would have if these bodies were dragged down that stained walkway, LE would have seen it, and would have arrested him. Instead, in order to keep him detained for longer than they could rightfully detain him in regard to the murders, they charged him with the fake ID/impersonation charges. He was later released on $750 bail. By that time, LE had been combing his property with a fine toothed comb for days, taking whatever they felt could potentially be evidence, and re-arrested him after he was let out on bail, charging him with the murders and saying there was no smoking gun. Blood or evidence in the truck would have been a smoking gun, I would think, IMOO. We don't know if the truck was returned, or if DG would have to pick up the truck from a compound somewhere if it had been released, or if LE is keeping it as evidence, since LE is being very tight lipped about everything. Sometimes, what may seem like common sense, makes people come to conclusions before an accused has his day in court. I, for one, am dying to hear about all of this circumstantial evidence they have gathered, before I reach a guilty verdict.

Let's assume that although police were looking for a specific green truck, they didn't find it, they decided to stop looking for it, and that's that. The owner of the green truck is long gone and no one cares. For fun, police have decided to pin the murders on a loner from Airdrie, and that's that.

Police then decided to take a Mexico vacation, under the ruse of investigating a condo.
Case closed.

 

[OutOfTheDarkness]

I found this... Mr. Kozera said the reputed patent dispute between Mr. Garland and Mr. Liknes occurred “before Alvin’s joining Winter. He never mentioned [Douglas Garland] and Winter had no dealings with this man.”

http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/0...glas-garland-over-patent-calgary-family-says/

No dealings with DG, but what about MH?

 

[OutOfTheDarkness]

Sometimes common sense is enough to draw conclusions. There are two possibilities regarding the truck in question: the green truck that police sought was located, or it wasn't. Police may not have located the truck in question, but after confiscating an identical truck belonging to the accused, they quit looking for the truck and they charged the owner of the green truck with three counts of murder.

Do we need police to tell us that they the found green Ford truck?

The standard put forward by someone, I can't remember who, was that fact, backed up by link, was the only allowable source of discussion. "Common sense" is nothing more than speculation based on probabilities and likelihood.

Thank you for finally admitting that speculation is allowed, and required.