Ebola outbreak - general thread #5

New Posts

Status
Not open for further replies.
cady said:
Probably because people just love to BLAME. Seriously, why cast aspersions on ANYONE? This is an old disease that has probably mutated numerous times, and this is a new GLOBAL event, for humans to deal with. We are learning as fast as we can. Especially the professionals. And the media are flubbing up as much as everyone else. I just hope when we finally get the real scoop, that the disease will not have mutated again. So far, these nurse cases just don't make sense. UGH. JMO
Click to expand...

I don't think it's a mystery as to what happened with the nurse. Dallas hospital went all out trying to treat Mr. Duncan (despite what family members of Mr. Duncan has been claiming). They had a large team treating him (meaning a lot of people involved). Wearing PPE according to cdc guidelines. But looking at these guidelines, that PPE appears to be minimum protection.
They were not wearing hazmat suits like Doctors without borders wear. I also don't think they were getting sprayed with a disinfectant after emerging from Mr. Duncan's room as they do in Africa.
Dallas hospital was also carrying out high risk procedures for spreading the virus such as ventilation and dialysis.
Dallas hospital is not the one of four hospitals designed for biosafety level 4 procedures. Even if minimum CDC guidelines were adequate, these doctors and nurses likely didn't practice how to take these PPE off numerous times like they do in specially designed biosafety level 4 hospitals.
This infection was very predictable, and not mysterious whatsoever.
The same applies to Spain, by the way. The hospital was not biosafety level 4.
 
jjenny......I have wondered about what the disinfectant procedure was, and ignorantly presumed that that is a given, with any highly contagious, disease treatment protocol...........is it not? No idea. TY JMO
 
jjenny said:
I don't think it's a mystery as to what happened with the nurse. Dallas hospital went all out trying to treat Mr. Duncan (despite what family members of Mr. Duncan has been claiming). They had a large team treating him (meaning a lot of people involved). Wearing PPE according to cdc guidelines. But looking at these guidelines, that PPE appears to be minimum protection.
They were not wearing hazmat suits like Doctors without borders wear. I also don't think they were getting sprayed with a disinfectant after emerging from Mr. Duncan's room as they do in Africa.
Dallas hospital was also carrying out high risk procedures for spreading the virus such as ventilation and dialysis.
Dallas hospital is not the one of four hospitals designed for biosafety level 4 procedures. Even if minimum CDC guidelines were adequate, these doctors and nurses likely didn't practice how to take these PPE off numerous times like they do in specially designed biosafety level 4 hospitals.
This infection was very predictable, and not mysterious whatsoever.
The same applies to Spain, by the way. The hospital was not biosafety level 4.
Click to expand...

Do you know if the patients in Spain and Texas were treated in negative pressure isolation rooms? I hope I am not being disrespectful to both institutions by even asking the question.
 
okiedokietoo said:
that applies to non health care people - did recently read somewhere another quote from him - along the lines of you can sit next to someone with ebola on a bus and not get it

oh here it is:
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/ebola-spreads-26135907
Ebola: How It Spreads
Oct 12, 2014, 11:04 AM ET
By The Associated Press

WHAT ABOUT MORE CASUAL CONTACT?
Click to expand...

Unless, from the CDC's own page I linked a page or 2 ago, that person with ebola next to you on the bus sneezes or coughs OR puts their hand in their mouth to give themselves an aspirin and then hands you one or touches the armrest where your arm is, or on and on and on. I think the reason the CDC is hanging on the not airborne part is that coughing and sneezing are not normal SYMPTOMS of ebola, so unlike a flu , you wouldn't have that as much. But lots of people could still cough with ebola because they may be asthmatic, a smoker, a high exposure construction worker or just drank their juice too quick and it hit the wrong pipe and the ' COUGHED'..ditto " SNEEZING''.

ETA http://www.cdc.gov/vhf/ebola/transmission/qas.html ''' if a symptomatic patient with Ebola coughs or sneezes on someone, and saliva or mucus come into contact with that person’s eyes, nose or mouth, these fluids may transmit the disease.''''

Excuse my redundancy, again :)
 
Lyra500 said:
Please provide a link to back up the bit in bold.

There has been ONE person so far - Mr Duncan. There is no cast iron evidence that he knew he had Ebola when he arrived in the US.
Where are all these people with Ebola trying to get to a Westernised country?
This article refers to some poor guy with a cold who was not even from a country with any cases of Ebola.
Click to expand...

No evidence that they are trying to get here but it's being talked about:

http://www.defense.gov/news/newsarticle.aspx?id=123359

Kelly: Southcom Keeps Watch on Ebola Situation
By Jim Garamone
DoD News, Defense Media Activity
WASHINGTON, Oct. 8, 2014

“By the end of the year, there’s supposed to be 1.4 million people infected with Ebola and 62 percent of them dying, according to the [Centers for Disease Control and Prevention],” Marine Corps Gen. John F. Kelly said. “That’s horrific. And there is no way we can keep Ebola [contained] in West Africa.”
Click to expand...
This is a particularly possible scenario if the disease gets to Haiti or Central America, he said. If the disease gets to countries like Guatemala, Honduras or El Salvador, it will cause a panic and people will flee the region, the general said.
“If it breaks out, it’s literally, ‘Katie bar the door,’ and there will be mass migration into the United States,” Kelly said. “They will run away from Ebola, or if they suspect they are infected, they will try to get to the United States for treatment.”
Click to expand...
 
Lyra500 said:
Do you know if the patients in Spain and Texas were treated in negative pressure isolation rooms? I hope I am not being disrespectful to both institutions by even asking the question.
Click to expand...

I don't know. But that is a good question to ask.
Again, both hospitals are not biosafety level 4 so it wouldn't surprise me if they didn't put these patients into negative pressure rooms.
 
Detective Klimpt said:
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...afe-ebola-quarantine-report-article-1.1972199

Unbelievable!! And guess what. This restaurant is just a few miles from me. I go there.
Click to expand...

Laugh out Loud ? Or not one bit funny ? I can't even tell any more. She can't get food delivered? Heck, the family in Dallas is having food brought for them, so why can't Snyderman's crew or NBC send them in the food they want? Why is it doctors and health directors are the ones taking the most chances here? Why are they NOT afraid of
getting it?What do they know that we do not? ( tinfoil hat time)
 
cady said:
jjenny......I have wondered about what the disinfectant procedure was, and ignorantly presumed that that is a given, with any highly contagious, disease treatment protocol...........is it not? No idea. TY JMO
Click to expand...

How can someone be sprayed with disinfectant from head to toe if they are not wearing a full body suit (like we have seen in Africa)?
I don't think it's possible. So I don't think they were sprayed upon exiting the room.
 
So again, why aren't Ebola contacts quarantined here in hospitals like they are in Spain?
 
SCHMAE said:
Laugh out Loud ? Or not one bit funny ? I can't even tell any more. She can't get food delivered? Heck, the family in Dallas is having food brought for them, so why can't Snyderman's crew or NBC send them in the food they want? Why is it doctors and health directors are the ones taking the most chances here? Why are they NOT afraid of
getting it?What do they know that we do not? ( tinfoil hat time)
Click to expand...

Either total craziness or arrogance?
 
I think this sort of thing (infection of the nurse) could easily happen in any other hospital in the country. Texas hospital was just "lucky" that Mr. Duncan showed up there.
Again, we only have four biosafety level 4 hospitals in the whole country. Maybe we should figure out how to send patients there (apparently that's very difficult because of concerns about spreading the virus while they are being transported).

"Besser says the nurse in Dallas and any future patients should be moved to one of four facilities around the country where doctors and nurses have received extensive training."

http://www.khou.com/story/news/heal...llas-criticized-for-ebola-treatment/17192253/
 
jjenny said:
I think this sort of thing (infection of the nurse) could easily happen in any other hospital in the country. Texas hospital was just "lucky" that Mr. Duncan showed up there.
Again, we only have four biosafety level 4 hospitals in the whole country. Maybe we should figure out how to send patients there (apparently that's very difficult because of concerns about spreading the virus while they are being transported).

"Besser says the nurse in Dallas and any future patients should be moved to one of four facilities around the country where doctors and nurses have received extensive training."

http://www.khou.com/story/news/heal...llas-criticized-for-ebola-treatment/17192253/
Click to expand...

I can't seem to multi quote today, and my typing will be messy, too :eek:

But the above by Besser, along with Frieden talking about re-evaluating the CDC advice given to these hospitals is very good to see.

Besser did an outstanding job as acting CDC director before Frieden was appointed to the surprise and dismay of many in the CDC and out (according to my contacts there and in USAMRIID (DOD infectious diseases branch in Maryland).

So perhaps, even if Frieden isn't fired, they are going to give Besser more of a voice in the decisions. :pray:

Maybe we will see an admission that Frieden's claims of things need to be reversed (or as he called it reevaluated) (like any hospital in the country can handle ebola :eek:hdear: and his lowering the standard PPE needed for healthcare workers.

Short version: IMO, things will improve if Besser is given more heed and Friedan takes a back seat, even if only behind the scenes.
 
WideOpen said:
I finally caught up and just feel terribly angry and disappointed at the lack of preparedness by, well...who do you blame?
Anyone with half a brain could reason that either sooner or later we here in the US were going to be faced with this. For hospitals and communities to be in the dark seems so ignorant. I expect a large sector of the American public to have their head in the sand but the professionals and high ups should have been alert to this threat.

Also, for those who "scold" those of us who are preppers, or conspiracy nuts, or worry warts...can you blame us? We are getting mixed messages and reading plenty of conflicting data. I found this article (quoted, linked below) interesting because it shows we aren't the only ones paranoid. No one knows! I think we are all correct to be concerned and be paying very close attention and to those we can trust.

Attorney general attempts to block Ebola waste disposal in Louisiana



jmo
Night all! praying for the nurse in Texas, this should never have happened.
Click to expand...
It depends on the reason you are "prepping". If it's Zombies, Y2K, or the "New World Order", then I think it's nuts. If it's for natural disaster such as an earthquake or tornado, you have a point.
 
Did they ever say the nurse breached protocol? The wording has been pretty passive - "there was a breach." That's just the logical conclusion - protocol is to prevent any contact with bodily fluids, though various means, and contact was obviously made. It doesn't mean the nurse did anything wrong - it could be the person helping her dress/undress, or the nurse could have touched her face or had a small cut without ever realizing it. It could be something very minor that they can't identify, since I doubt anyone was doing anything obviously dangerous in the hopes of getting ebola. Or it could be that the means they have chosen leave room for contact that hasn't been foreseen. That would still be a breach in protocol, even if CDC instructions had failed.
 
faw720 said:
Either total craziness or arrogance?
Click to expand...

Arrogance is my pick.. And there was a man with her who went and picked up the food.. No reason for her to be out at all.. There are plenty of delivery places that will drop stuff off at your front door ring the bell and leave.. I'm sure she has a credit card to prepay.. There's no excuse.
 
SCHMAE said:
A friend put up a link on FB about an article called '' cdc has to admit ebola is airborne'. Said friend had a friend who said 'get your news from a reliable source' and put up a SNOPES article saying " false ebola is not airborne. But in the initial article my friend put up , it linked the CDC page discussing transmission .

http://www.cdc.gov/vhf/ebola/transmission/qas.html

'' Although coughing and sneezing are not common symptoms of Ebola, if a symptomatic patient with Ebola coughs or sneezes on someone, and saliva or mucus come into contact with that person’s eyes, nose or mouth, these fluids may transmit the disease.

So I thought a quick google on what is airborne might help ME, at least and I'm sharing with you .

http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=airborne transmission ''Noun

S: (n) airborne transmission (a transmission mechanism in the which the infectious agent is spread as an aerosol and usually enters a person through the respiratory tract)'''

So an airborne virus is one that can enter through the respiratory tract , spread by aerosol ( cough/ sneeze) But ebola, which can be spread by inhaling/ ingesting someone's cough or sneeze is not airborne? So this is a little word game, right?

Also I found this very interesting, excuse the redundancy.

http://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/disease/spread.htm FLU can be spread ''up to about 6 feet away// droplets made when people with flu cough, sneeze or talk. // droplets made when people with flu cough, sneeze or talk. Less often, a person might also get flu by touching a surface or object that has flu virus on it
http://www.cdc.gov/vhf/ebola/transmission/qas.html EBOLA can be spread ''direct contact with body fluids //Ebola coughs or sneezes on someone//Ebola on dried on surfaces such as doorknobs and countertops can survive for several hours; however,''.

Also previously was said to stay further than 3 feet away from an ebola patient and is saying within 6 feet you can catch the FLU. Says surfaces of counters and doorknobs can have the live virus on it for several hours but does not LIST this as a way it can be transmitted but on the FLU transmission page it does. Its' a very sloppy page,t he ebola one for CDC. It seems to be lacking a lot of common sense information that I did find on the common cold and flu pages on the CDC. Maybe that is because its' been an African virus the CDC did not think would be coming here or did they update the page since it got to the US?
So from what I gather above from the 2 pages Flu vs. Ebola page from CDC. Both viruses can be spread essentially the same way but they refuse to class Ebola as airborne, right? Please if I'm reading it or understanding it incorrectly, someone show me TIA
Click to expand...

:wave:I can tell you from personal experience that I got the Flu from touching an infected surface- a patient's chart in a nursing home, that an OT who got the flu had just handled. I came down with a full-on case of the flu, shortly after this woman did.
I've also been exposed to TB in a nursing home when a patient with active TB coughed on me.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

DNASolves

Who is Escambia County John Doe (1989)?

Members online

... and 150 more.
Total: 2,137 (members: 151, guests: 1,986)

Online statistics

Members online
151
Guests online
1,986
Total visitors
2,137
Totals may include hidden visitors.

Forum statistics

Threads
594,830
Messages
18,013,531
Members
229,525
Latest member
zhoule
Back
Top