Holly Bobo, missing from TN 2014 discussion #5 ***ARRESTS***

[tlcya]

"if the initial perps are not convicted as charged I cannot begin to see how any of those charged with lesser crimes having to do with the murder can be convicted."

You are correct in the analysis that if ZA and JA are acquitted, none of the rest can be convicted of being their accessory. That's the law.

However, technically, it is incorrect to classify the charges against the others as "lesser crimes having to do with the murder [or kidnapping]." The charges are not about any participation in the murder or kidnapping, but for (allegedly) helping the named criminals cover up a crime that had already been committed by them.

You are right I did not express that thought well but that is what I was trying to say with my lesser crimes sentence.

 

[SteveS]

"that is what I was trying to say"

TLCYA, I figured as much. I know I am being nitpicky, but I'll probably continue to remind, that the only two being accused of any crimes against Holly (ie of the kidnapping and murder) are JA and ZA, and no one else.

As charged so far, this is not a crime ring all weirdly ganging up on a helpless victim, but more like one person (with the help of another) doing it. Understanding that helps clarify, imo.

It also helps explain the nature of the charges against the others. They are all about the quest for evidence to prove the case(s) against ZA and JA, and we have to keep that in mind to understand why they are playing out like they are. The ones in the real bullseye, even with those minor cases, are actually JA and ZA.

 

[Dr. Know?]

Oddly, there are groups of men that will drug women, take them, whatever. I heard about one in '73.

This is one of them and they thought they were doing the biggest *advertiser censored* film and snuff film. I hate them. Hate is my most not favored word in life. I do hate them for what they did. Until they fry or live forever happily ever after with the man who choses them. jmo

 

[Tugela]

"if the initial perps are not convicted as charged I cannot begin to see how any of those charged with lesser crimes having to do with the murder can be convicted."

You are correct in the analysis that if ZA and JA are acquitted, none of the rest can be convicted of being their accessory. That's the law.

However, technically, it is incorrect to classify the charges against the others as "lesser crimes having to do with the murder [or kidnapping]." The charges are not about any participation in the murder or kidnapping, but for (allegedly) helping the named criminals cover up a crime that had already been committed by them.

However, none of the additional charges are aiding and abetting, which would be dependent on the crime alleged being true. The actual charges are for witness intimidation and concealing evidence, neither of which require murder or abduction to be proven in order to get a conviction. ZA was charged with making threats against a witness (his brother). He was charged with assault (against a correction officer). D was charged with disposing of evidence (obstruction of justice), as were the P brothers. None of these charges require ZA and associates to be convicted of murder and/or abduction, or even that those cases go to court.

You can be charged with obstruction of justice by deliberately concealing or destroying something you believe to be relevant event though it is not.

 

[Tugela]

Wait...I think I missed some reports. Are you saying that he somehow videotaped her tied up through a window or something and they didn't know they were being videotaped. Or that someone else stole his phone and video taped it? I had this image in my head that he was inside the home with them and was videotaping the goings on. Sure, the woman didn't testify that she saw any murder, but if my vision of the scenario is the correct one, he was part of the whole plot to kidnap Holly. I just can't think of any other scenario where you're video taping a woman tied up who later is murdered without being intimately involved.

Again, I think the woman is lying and there is no video tape, but it sounds like your vision of this is different from my vision of this. Do you have any news reports that can clear this up what they're alleging?

You are not legally required to intervene if you witness a crime, or even report it for that matter. What you can't do is lie about it and deny it to the police when they ask, because then you will be charged with obstruction.

If he was standing outside and recorded a scene of a crime happening through a window for example, as offensive as that might be, it is not illegal.

 

[Tugela]

In my opinion, it might be worth considering that the family dog outside was already familiar with the scent of the perpetrator from previous experience, but I equally recognize that 9 out of 10 house dogs become submissive when approached by a dominant-behaving male human.

You have obviously never encountered any of the many dogs my family owned, because they absolutely would NOT become submissive in front of a dominant-behaving male. The bigger ones would have torn any stranger foolish enough to enter the yard to pieces. They would be kicking up a huge ruckus. And if any of the dogs in my neighborhood are anything to go by, judging from the amount of noise they make, I would say that the opposite of what you say is true.

They were submissive to us, and people we were comfortable with. Strangers, not so much . It always surprised me how much they would take from us kids, but how aggressive they became as soon as a stranger came anywhere near our house.

 

[Tugela]

I'm sorry, but with all due respect, you are simply wrong. None of the others can be convicted without there being a conviction of JA or ZA. It's the law.

One of the elements to be proven, to get a conviction on an "accessory after the fact" charge, is that the underlying crime occurred and that it was done by the ones charged (in this case, JA and ZA). The law on an "accessory" crime mandates a conviction for that underlying crime in order for the accessory charge to be possible.

They are not charged with being an accessory, they are charged with making threats, assault and obstruction of justice.

 

[Tugela]

With all due respect, what's "missing" is that you are making up your own facts, and inventing facts that make no sense then wondering why they make no sense.

Meanwhile, what we know makes perfect sense. So there's that.

Again, CB was asleep when the scream happened. Once he awoke, he heard the dog barking, took a look, nothing seemed amiss, and he didn't worry. There was no reason to.

There were no "frantic phone calls back and forth" until later. CB called his mom wondering why Holly was still at home, and he left a message. His first moment of real concern would have been when his mother called him back, AFTER he had seen Holly walking into the woods, and she told him that wasn't Holly's bf, and it's at that point when the frantic calls began, not before.

There were multiple calls. First the brother called the mother, and didn't get her. Then she called him. Then she called 911. Then she called him AGAIN (we are at frantic at this point), and this is where the walking into the forest part comes in. Then she calls 911 once more. (Reference: Noatak's timeline on post #215 here: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...only!-*NO-DISCUSSION*&p=10473330#post10473330). And we have the neighbors call mixed into that.

At the point where he discloses the walking into the woods bit we are already into the 3rd call (4th if you count the first 911) and 911 has already been called. Is that not frantic at that point? I think it is, so the cavalier attitude being described in this account is confusing.

There are two jarring aspects to all of this. Firstly, it is quite clear that the mother is apparently unduly agitated and the brother unduly calm considering the circumstances as would be known to them in this account; and Secondly, it is inexplicable why HB would be so calm under the circumstances when her brother was literally feet away from her. No screaming, or crying, or struggling, or apparent distress. None at all.

 

[SteveS]

They are not charged with being an accessory, they are charged with making threats, assault and obstruction of justice.

None of the above is accurate. But you are right in a general sense, in that there is more information that needs to be added pertaining to the charges.

1 Our discussion has been about the minor characters in this case and the ramifications of the charges against them, and none of them (MP, JP, Dylan, or SA) are charged with any of those charges you list (making threats, assault, or obstruction of justice).

2 Two of the minor characters in this case were indeed hit with accessory charges (MP, JP) as we have been discussing.

3 Beyond that, there are additional charges of which I had thought were part of the accessory charges, but were not.

4 In total, the charges against the minor characters in these crimes are:
MP - accessory after the fact, tampering with evidence
JP - accessory after the fact, tampering with evidence
Dylan - tampering with evidence
SA - none

5 As we have discussed, the accessory charges cannot be prosecuted to a conviction without a successful conviction of JA or ZA or the underlying kidnapping/murder crimes.

6 Yes, the tampering with evidence charges can be prosecuted without an underlying conviction on the primary crimes (kidnapping, murder), although the failure to convict on the primary would certainly have ramifications on whether they were actually tampering with evidence pertaining to a crime. But if they were considered to have tampered with actual evidence, then they could be convicted of that act regardless of the outcome of the trials for the primary crimes.

7 None of the above alters the broader point that ZA and JA are the only ones charged with the crimes against Holly.

 

[SteveS]

There were multiple calls. First the brother called the mother, and didn't get her. Then she called him. Then she called 911. Then she called him AGAIN (we are at frantic at this point), and this is where the walking into the forest part comes in. Then she calls 911 once more. (Reference: Noatak's timeline on post #215 here: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...only!-*NO-DISCUSSION*&p=10473330#post10473330). And we have the neighbors call mixed into that.

At the point where he discloses the walking into the woods bit we are already into the 3rd call (4th if you count the first 911) and 911 has already been called. Is that not frantic at that point? I think it is, so the cavalier attitude being described in this account is confusing.

There are two jarring aspects to all of this. Firstly, it is quite clear that the mother is apparently unduly agitated and the brother unduly calm considering the circumstances as would be known to them in this account; and Secondly, it is inexplicable why HB would be so calm under the circumstances when her brother was literally feet away from her. No screaming, or crying, or struggling, or apparent distress. None at all.

As you note, there was nothing "frantic" being done by CB, because he had been given no reason to think anything was amiss. So it should not be puzzling as to why he wasn't acting with some sort of desperation: he thought he was observing regular life.

As far as he knew, Holly and her bf were in a conversation that he interpreted as a breakup. As a result, that caused him to steer clear, not wanting to intrude, and it was only when his mom called and alerted him that he couldn't have seen the bf, that he began to react.

You use the phrase "considering the circumstances as would be known to them" and really, there was no such thing as what was known to "them" on this morning. Maybe that's what's being missed - his mom had one perception of things, while his was completely different until the point at which she told him it couldn't be the bf he had glimpsed in silhouette and from afar as they walked into the woods.

It's also possible that CB takes a while to really wake up, when he gets up in the morning. I was like that in my younger days, where I'd get up and stumble around and still be half asleep. If that happens to be the case with CB, it would have further dulled his ability to react and perceive what was occurring. I feel sorry for him, with the what-if's he must be haunted with.

 

[OldSteve]

As you note, there was nothing "frantic" being done by CB, because he had been given no reason to think anything was amiss. So it should not be puzzling as to why he wasn't acting with some sort of desperation: he thought he was observing regular life.

As far as he knew, Holly and her bf were in a conversation that he interpreted as a breakup. As a result, that caused him to steer clear, not wanting to intrude, and it was only when his mom called and alerted him that he couldn't have seen the bf, that he began to react.

You use the phrase "considering the circumstances as would be known to them" and really, there was no such thing as what was known to "them" on this morning. Maybe that's what's being missed - his mom had one perception of things, while his was completely different until the point at which she told him it couldn't be the bf he had glimpsed in silhouette and from afar as they walked into the woods.

It's also possible that CB takes a while to really wake up, when he gets up in the morning. I was like that in my younger days, where I'd get up and stumble around and still be half asleep. If that happens to be the case with CB, it would have further dulled his ability to react and perceive what was occurring. I feel sorry for him, with the what-if's he must be haunted with.

Good discussion! Regarding what I respectfully BBM - Be interesting to have hear the conversation that took place once his mom told him to get a gun.

 

[ThoughtFox]

Breaking News:

Cuthbert Langley ‏@NC5_CLangley 4 minutes ago
BREAKING: TBI charges John Dylan Adams with 2 counts of Rape after he admits to taking part in the forcible rape of #HollyBobo in April '11.
https://twitter.com/NC5_CLangley/status/522066488589840385

Chris Conte ‏@chrisconte 3 minutes ago
MORE: "Adams admitted that he was involved in the forcible rape of #HollyBobo on April 13, 2011, at 235 Adams Lane in Holliday" @NC5
https://twitter.com/chrisconte

Chris Conte ‏@chrisconte 6 minutes ago
#BREAKING John Dylan Adams charged with raping #HollyBobo back on April 13, 2011. Officials say he admitted to crime
https://twitter.com/chrisconte

 

[ThoughtFox]

Here's the print story:

http://www.wsmv.com/story/26782753/suspect-in-holly-bobo-case-charged-with-2-counts-of-rape

Suspect in Holly Bobo case charged with 2 counts of rape

DECATURVILLE, TN (WSMV) -

One of the suspects in the Holly Bobo case is now facing two counts of rape.

Dylan Adams was arrested in September on a tampering with evidence charge.

The Tennessee Bureau of Investigation said Adams admitted to agents that he was involved in the forcible rape of Bobo on April 13, 2011.

A special Grand Jury in Decatur County returned indictments on Tuesday morning against Adams.

He is being held without bond at the Robertson County Jail.

 

[OldSteve]

Wow! That's a break in the case. Wonder if that carries a death penalty?

ETA - would think he's likely to reveal allot of details to LE now.

 

[tlcya]

Here's the print story:

http://www.wsmv.com/story/26782753/suspect-in-holly-bobo-case-charged-with-2-counts-of-rape

Suspect in Holly Bobo case charged with 2 counts of rape

DECATURVILLE, TN (WSMV) -

One of the suspects in the Holly Bobo case is now facing two counts of rape.

Dylan Adams was arrested in September on a tampering with evidence charge.

The Tennessee Bureau of Investigation said Adams admitted to agents that he was involved in the forcible rape of Bobo on April 13, 2011.

A special Grand Jury in Decatur County returned indictments on Tuesday morning against Adams.

He is being held without bond at the Robertson County Jail.

this is huge! Huge Huge Huge! and explains why his cooperating witness/deal may have issues. If he sat on this info all this time and is only now divulging the full extent of his involvement in the rape of the victim any deals made with him could fly right out the window based on that new info.

 

[dog.gone.cute]

Breaking News:

Cuthbert Langley ‏@NC5_CLangley 4 minutes ago
BREAKING: TBI charges John Dylan Adams with 2 counts of Rape after he admits to taking part in the forcible rape of #HollyBobo in April '11.
https://twitter.com/NC5_CLangley/status/522066488589840385

Chris Conte ‏@chrisconte 3 minutes ago
MORE: "Adams admitted that he was involved in the forcible rape of #HollyBobo on April 13, 2011, at 235 Adams Lane in Holliday" @NC5
https://twitter.com/chrisconte

Chris Conte ‏@chrisconte 6 minutes ago
#BREAKING John Dylan Adams charged with raping #HollyBobo back on April 13, 2011. Officials say he admitted to crime
https://twitter.com/chrisconte

Whoa ! OMG !

:moo: I like it too much here to say what I'm really thinking right now !


Thanks, ThoughtFox and posters for the updates . . . off to catch up!

 

[dog.gone.cute]

From News Channel 5:

The Tennessee Bureau of Investigation said 26-year-old John Dylan Adams was indicted Tuesday morning by a special Grand Jury in Decatur County on two counts of rape.

On September 17, 2014, Adams allegedly admitted to TBI agents that he was involved in the forcible rape of Holly Bobo on April 13, 2011, the day Holly Bobo went missing from her family's home in Darden.

The TBi said the rape occurred at 235 Adams Lane in Holliday in Decatur County, which is the Adams' family property where agents had searched earlier this year before the arrest of Zach Adams.


Link: http://www.jrn.com/newschannel5/news/Brother-Of-Bobo-Suspect-Charged-With-Rape-279156481.html

 

[tlcya]

Dylan admits to rape, I wonder if he is a second substantiating source for the existence of a video of said rape. Maybe this whole deal with the Pearcy bros comes originally from Dylan. If he told cops who all was there that day and present and/or participating in the rape (their mere presence means they were participants in the kidnap/holding if I am not mistaken) and told LE that a video tape was made by MP, they may have wanted more substantiating before arresting. Which would mean the female witness was not the only witness alleging a video was at one time in possession of one of the Pearcy Bros, she is the SECOND witness substantiating the video with Dylan being the first.

This could be a big game changer and makes me feel much more confident that ZA and JA are going away for a long long time and that any accomplices, aiders or abetters will too.

 

[dog.gone.cute]

From WSMV:


One of the suspects in the Holly Bobo case is now facing two counts of rape.

A special grand jury in Decatur County returned indictments against Adams on Tuesday morning.

He is being held without bond at the Robertson County Jail.


Link: http://www.wsmv.com/story/26782753/suspect-in-holly-bobo-case-charged-with-2-counts-of-rape

 

[dog.gone.cute]

From the Jackson Sun:


Through information developed over the course of the investigation, TBI agents learned last month that 26-year old John Dylan Adams of Holladay disposed of items he knew to be of evidentiary value to the case, the agency said. Adams was arrested and charged with tampering with evidence. Additionally, on September 17, 2014, Adams admitted to TBI agents that he was involved in the forcible rape of Holly Bobo on April 13, 2011, at the address of 235 Adams Lane in Holliday, TN, in Decatur County.

Link: http://www.jacksonsun.com/story/new...dams-charged-with-rape-in-bobo-case/17250561/