Retrial for Sentencing of Jodi Arias - 11/26 -12/02/14 In recess

[MeeBee]

I wonder how many of the world's worst sex offenders have said the same thing as they were being carted away?

I'd expect a sex expert to be open-minded and less inclined to label people right off the bat. This conventional/unconventional sex stuff bothers me. Where's the list? Who compiled it? When? Where? Amongst whom?

That's what I'd like to know. What on earth is "unconventional" sex? If you weren't here to throw out pedophilia claims, then why hire an "unconventional" sex expert? Does Dr. Fonseca consider a FWB relationship between two consenting adults to be "unconventional"?

 

[cindymac]

I saw it! I think both you and lambs make a lot of sense! I think it does have to do with Juan needing a little help and Flores being preoccupied with his other job now.

Exactly. The people who come up with all these derogatory ideas about Juan and Flores - babysitting, reprimands, demotions, lies, misconduct, etc. - think that their careers revolve solely around Arias, and persecuting Arias. They don't. They have lengthy careers, a wealth of experience and expertise, and reputations to suit. For them, Arias may be one of the worst criminals they've encountered, but ultimately she's just another evil doer in a long series of evil doers, past and future whose own actions are all that's needed to convict her - no persecution required. Once she's disposed of, on to the next...

 

[daisydomino]

It breaks my heart that it is in the ruination of Travis Alexander's name that the Cailleach and her stooges are planning her salvation. Everyone is a genius, but if you judge a fish on its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid. ~Albert Einstein

Breaks my heart too, but that's giving her too much credit. She's not that powerful. She's a weirdly fascinating BPD combination of the extreme versions of all the 7 deadly sins. A crime fiction writer would never create a character as nutz as her because she's not believable. She sought the TV lights and then dared us to wish her death. Here we are.

 

[AZlawyer]

AZ, the last thread shut down, and a few of us were curious if JM gets a chance to re-cross? Being as there are some discrepancies in doc's answers on re-direct. For instance, she was accused of altering answers from an interview where she assessed/observed this person during an appeal process.

<modsnip>

Juan could probably ask for a short re-cross for this reason, but IMO it would be poor strategy to do so. Unless KN comes up with something actually important, IMO he ought to act like it was all BS and not worth his attention. Which thus far it has been.

I read on the last thread that AZL said yes, Juan gets to go at her again after Nurmi! That will be interesting.

Only if he asks for and gets a re-cross. As I said above, this wouldn't be a good strategy unless something really important gets raised on redirect.

 

[katiecoolady]

Just swingin by to give my new avatar a test drive Look what I found..forgot I shamelessly asked Mr. Youknowwho for a tandem selfie in the airport that day we flew on the same plane. Of course I was returning from a vacation with no makeup and having been in the pool that morning (isn't that always the way?).

 

[katiecoolady]

That's what I'd like to know. What on earth is "unconventional" sex? If you weren't here to throw out pedophilia claims, then why hire an "unconventional" sex expert? Does Dr. Fonseca consider a FWB relationship between two consenting adults to be "unconventional"?

She finds "aggressive" behavior to be only that which is "violent" and texting after 11pm deviant or some such nonsen$e. I think she likely is confusing her own self by this point.

 

[Sulamith]

I wonder how many of the world's worst sex offenders have said the same thing as they were being carted away?

I'd expect a sex expert to be open-minded and less inclined to label people right off the bat. This conventional/unconventional sex stuff bothers me. Where's the list? Who compiled it? When? Where? Amongst whom?

I do not have a clue. Maybe the list of deviant sexual practices came from the American Psychiatric Association? Here is one of their crazy claims:


"According to the American Psychiatric Association, until 1974 homosexuality was a mental illness. Freud had alluded to homosexuality numerous times in his writings, and had concluded that paranoia and homosexuality were inseparable. Other psychiatrists wrote copiously on the subject, and homosexuality was &#8220;treated&#8221; on a wide basis. There was little or no suggestion within the psychiatric community that homosexuality might be conceptualized as anything other than a mental illness that needed to be treated. And, of course, homosexuality was listed as a mental illness in DSM-II."

Some Christians have a no- no list regarding sexual practices. At one time, the Mormon church told the members that oral sex (between married couples) was forbidden. They did take that back.

 

[MeeBee]

I looked up unconventional sex studies and what that relates to. It's a pretty broad term. One man's "unconventional" is another man's Friday night lol. It's a bit subjective and to be honest seems a bit of an antiquated area of study.

Again, why was Fonseca, an expert in this area of study, even called if she wasn't here to discuss the sexual aspects but assess their relationship? If she wasn't there to discuss TA's alleged pedophilia, why call her? Couldn't any old body from AZ have done that, without the need for the person to be an expert in that particular area? And with the licensure to conduct an actual evaluation? They were very careful to avoid that so the doctor could speak in broad terms. It just seems like the DT just keeps dipping from the same pool. Why? Why can't they find anyone in their neck of the woods with the qualifications who are willing to testify for them? Are they just not trying or have they gone all clique-y?

So many questions, so little answers :sigh:

 

[ILikeToBendPages]

I looked up unconventional sex studies and what that relates to. It's a pretty broad term. One man's "unconventional" is another man's Friday night lol. It's a bit subjective and to be honest seems a bit of an antiquated area of study.

Again, why was Fonseca, an expert in this area of study, even called if she wasn't here to discuss the sexual aspects but assess their relationship? If she wasn't there to discuss TA's alleged pedophilia, why call her? Couldn't any old body from AZ have done that, without the need for the person to be an expert in that particular area? And with the licensure to conduct an actual evaluation? They were very careful to avoid that so the doctor could speak in broad terms. It just seems like the DT just keeps dipping from the same pool. Why? Why can't they find anyone in their neck of the woods with the qualifications who are willing to testify for them? Are they just not trying or have they gone all clique-y?

So many questions, so little answers :sigh:

Wasn't that what Alyce did last year ? She could give her opinion on the texts and phone call, but?

 

[bznbear]

That's what I'd like to know. What on earth is "unconventional" sex? If you weren't here to throw out pedophilia claims, then why hire an "unconventional" sex expert? Does Dr. Fonseca consider a FWB relationship between two consenting adults to be "unconventional"?

This witness has stepped in a hot mess numerous times concerning sex and whether or not it matters in this case, and whether or not it was conventional, and whether or not she was assessing Travis; because she certainly didn't assess the killer! She did in fact assess Travis, at every turn, and every turn got slimier. I'm in a rage over her ubiquitous support of a brutal convicted murderer, and her incessant prosecution of Travis, the victim. She has managed to usurp ALV as queen of the dammed evil lying liar witless-for-hire! jmho

 

[katiecoolady]

This witness has stepped in a hot mess numerous times concerning sex and whether or not it matters in this case, and whether or not it was conventional, and whether or not she was assessing Travis; because she certainly didn't assess the killer! She did in fact assess Travis, at every turn, and every turn got slimier. I'm in a rage over her ubiquitous support of a brutal convicted murderer, and her incessant prosecution of Travis, the victim. She has managed to usurp ALV as queen of the dammed evil lying liar witless-for-hire! jmho

Synonyms for assess include: judge, malign, slander, disrespect, trash, bash, accuse, blame.

 

[wenwe4]

So Dr. MF is specialized in "sexually abusive" perpetrator treatment (according to her linked in account).

Here is an exerpt (caution the language and content in this link is extremely graphic!): (Scroll down approx 1/3 the way down the page to approx 1/2 way down page for Dr. MF's statements)

"***

"Clinical psychologist Dr. L. C. Miccio-Fonseca has tried for 20 years to do just that&#8212;understand how offenders are &#8220;put together.&#8221; At her Clinic for the Sexualities, another high-rise suite of offices, this time in Mission Valley, she presents herself as an independent practitioner who often gets called to evaluate sex offenders although she does do therapy with victims. Beside her desk is a stack of dolls, their lifelessness a reminder that sometimes only symbolic play or language can activate young children to express the physical relationships going on in their families."

. . . . .

"Miccio-Fonseca advocates &#8220;thorough sex education. What is and what is not appropriate sexual behavior in our society,&#8221; she believes needs continual discussion at the child and the adult levels. Next she wants the public to understand why offenders are usually victims. After that, we need to acknowledge that research proves perpetrators can be treated. &#8220;There can be a reduction in risk with an offender. Simply arresting the offender, putting him in prison and leaving him there for 2, 5, 10, 15, 20 years, with no treatment, and then releasing them&#8212;that individual will typically be worse coming out than he or she was coming in. Did we solve the problem? No, we made it worse. And we put the society at a higher risk.&#8221; Prison is the worst place to send this population, she says. &#8220;Typically they are beaten and raped; they&#8217;re lucky to get out of there alive. They congregate around other sex offenders. They hone their skills like other criminals in the system. It is really an institution of higher learning, of how to be more anti-social, how to be a better burglar, how to be a better rapist, how to be a better pedophile. It&#8217;s not producing positive results.&#8221;

http://www.thomaslarson.com/publications/san-diego-reader/125-not-only-the-man.html

 

[PenElaine]

Just swingin by to give my new avatar a test drive Look what I found..forgot I shamelessly asked Mr. Youknowwho for a tandem selfie in the airport that day we flew on the same plane. Of course I was returning from a vacation with no makeup and having been in the pool that morning (isn't that always the way?).

You look lovely Kathy. And I have no doubt whatsoever that our hero knows exactly who you are and why you are so compassionate about the hardship TA's family is enduring. IMHO, he has some idea of what goes on here at WS and how many loyal trial-watchers are tuned in to this travesty and are highly vocal and supportive of his passion and commitment to seeing justice prevail in this case as well as his incredible "fan-base" on this site I.e. the "juanettes" and all the other posters who shout "go Juan" with every one of his strategic, brilliant moves.

CONGRATS on scoring a touching - and ultimately historically significant - moment.

 

[bznbear]

Synonyms for assess include: judge, malign, slander, disrespect, trash, bash, accuse, blame.

And good ole doc covered em all!

 

[katiecoolady]

So Dr. MF is specialized in "sexually abusive" perpetrator treatment (according to her linked in account).

Here is an exerpt (caution the language and content in this link is extremely graphic!): (Scroll down approx 1/3 the way down the page to approx 1/2 way down page for Dr. MF's statements)

"***

Clinical psychologist Dr. L. C. Miccio-Fonseca has tried for 20 years to do just that&#8212;understand how offenders are &#8220;put together.&#8221; At her Clinic for the Sexualities, another high-rise suite of offices, this time in Mission Valley, she presents herself as an independent practitioner who often gets called to evaluate sex offenders although she does do therapy with victims. Beside her desk is a stack of dolls, their lifelessness a reminder that sometimes only symbolic play or language can activate young children to express the physical relationships going on in their families."

. . . . .

Miccio-Fonseca advocates &#8220;thorough sex education. What is and what is not appropriate sexual behavior in our society,&#8221; she believes needs continual discussion at the child and the adult levels. Next she wants the public to understand why offenders are usually victims. After that, we need to acknowledge that research proves perpetrators can be treated. &#8220;There can be a reduction in risk with an offender. Simply arresting the offender, putting him in prison and leaving him there for 2, 5, 10, 15, 20 years, with no treatment, and then releasing them&#8212;that individual will typically be worse coming out than he or she was coming in. Did we solve the problem? No, we made it worse. And we put the society at a higher risk.&#8221; Prison is the worst place to send this population, she says. &#8220;Typically they are beaten and raped; they&#8217;re lucky to get out of there alive. They congregate around other sex offenders. They hone their skills like other criminals in the system. It is really an institution of higher learning, of how to be more anti-social, how to be a better burglar, how to be a better rapist, how to be a better pedophile. It&#8217;s not producing positive results.&#8221;

http://www.thomaslarson.com/publications/san-diego-reader/125-not-only-the-man.html

So, given this, is she trying to save Jodi, a sex offender and murderer from "honing her skills" and becoming "more anti-social"? Is this her $econdary gain?

 

[katiecoolady]

You look lovely Kathy. And I have no doubt whatsoever that our hero knows exactly who you are and why you are so compassionate about the hardship TA's family is enduring. IMHO, he has some idea of what goes on here at WS and how many loyal trial-watchers are tuned in to this travesty and are highly vocal and supportive of his passion and commitment to seeing justice prevail in this case as well as his incredible "fan-base" on this site I.e. the "juanettes" and all the other posters who shout "go Juan" with every one of his strategic, brilliant moves.

CONGRATS on scoring a touching - and ultimately historically significant - moment.

Board is acting kinda wonky today--just replied to this and then lost it. Anyway...thank you and yes I WAS there at a historic moment in his career. He was carrying that long box and I first ran in to him in the San Diego airport as we were both boarding. Then again at baggage claim where we took this shot (rather I did) then we walked out to the curb together still chatting and he wouldn't tell me what he was doing in SD or what was in that box although I was uncharacteristically <<<ok well like usual>>> nosey and asked him. Finally on the curb he told me about the award but he was very humble about it. I was all googly and WOW and hugged him and all that. I have always felt pretty comfortable around him because he's been very kind to me.
He's known details about our case, talks about our prosecutor who is his friend, remembers our terrible Judge--he's more interested in checking in with me than talking about himself pretty much every time I've chatted with him in or out of court.
I dug up his number tonite (he gave it to me that day on the curb "we should have lunch sometime") and texted him what a good job he did in court today..something along the lines of "you kicked that weird Dr's A$$ all over the courtroom". Ya know, totally professional and all. :blush:
Yes I do think he knows about and feels the support and appreciates it. I really do!

Reposting a large copy of this pic so you can see his darling smile.

 

[bznbear]

So Dr. MF is specialized in "sexually abusive" perpetrator treatment (according to her linked in account).

Here is an exerpt (caution the language and content in this link is extremely graphic!): (Scroll down approx 1/3 the way down the page to approx 1/2 way down page for Dr. MF's statements)

"***

"Clinical psychologist Dr. L. C. Miccio-Fonseca has tried for 20 years to do just that—understand how offenders are “put together.” At her Clinic for the Sexualities, another high-rise suite of offices, this time in Mission Valley, she presents herself as an independent practitioner who often gets called to evaluate sex offenders although she does do therapy with victims. Beside her desk is a stack of dolls, their lifelessness a reminder that sometimes only symbolic play or language can activate young children to express the physical relationships going on in their families."

. . . . .

"Miccio-Fonseca advocates “thorough sex education. What is and what is not appropriate sexual behavior in our society,” she believes needs continual discussion at the child and the adult levels. Next she wants the public to understand why offenders are usually victims. After that, we need to acknowledge that research proves perpetrators can be treated. “There can be a reduction in risk with an offender. Simply arresting the offender, putting him in prison and leaving him there for 2, 5, 10, 15, 20 years, with no treatment, and then releasing them—that individual will typically be worse coming out than he or she was coming in. Did we solve the problem? No, we made it worse. And we put the society at a higher risk.” Prison is the worst place to send this population, she says. “Typically they are beaten and raped; they’re lucky to get out of there alive. They congregate around other sex offenders. They hone their skills like other criminals in the system. It is really an institution of higher learning, of how to be more anti-social, how to be a better burglar, how to be a better rapist, how to be a better pedophile. It’s not producing positive results.”

http://www.thomaslarson.com/publications/san-diego-reader/125-not-only-the-man.html

I recently had to go to therapy for a very personal tragedy. The therapist had very similar dolls in the office, along with a cuddling blanket. I instantly recoiled from those props, because to me they represented the pain I experienced. Those dolls looked evil to me. I saw this therapist twice and couldn't go back. I disliked this person intensely. I felt they were completely out of touch with compassion and victim agony; way too much in my face! Maybe I had a normal reaction, but I wouldn't have taken my child back there either.

I sense this same lack of compassion for true victims from doc. She said there were 30-31 boxes of evidence to review from this case. We've seen Travis berate the killer in one email trail, and all she got from the voluminous documentation was that Travis was a master manipulator? She's seriously from the same sick alternate universe as the murderer, and an unconscionable prognosticator, imo. Seriously, how does she do this and ever look herself in the mirror?

 

[deedee21]

She finds "aggressive" behavior to be only that which is "violent" and texting after 11pm deviant or some such nonsen$e. I think she likely is confusing her own self by this point.

Doesnt this lady know that jodi worked until 11pm? And when she wasnt on the phone she would drive to Arizona at that time.

 

[katiecoolady]

And guess who I just heard back from thanking me for the text. Mr. Juanderful himself. GO JUAN!!!

 

[bznbear]

And guess who I just heard back from thanking me for the text. Mr. Juanderful himself. GO JUAN!!!

I am very jealous!