PA PA - Ray Gricar, 59, Bellefonte, 15 April 2005 - #13

[J. J. in Phila]

This is totally incorrect. Readers please see for yourself

It ran on the Disappeared segment first aired on 2/28/11. There may be contemporary comments on the thread from that period. Snyder was mentioned in the story “Gricar reward up to $15,000” by Mike Joseph, Centre Daily Times, 4/29/05. Again, anyone wishing to verify can get a back copy.

 

[Fromthedeepestjungle]

OK, we move the meeting with the attorneys office staffer to later in the day. We can juggle the events during the day around like a puzzle until they fit. We have found no evidence of "another woman" and the mystery woman was not recognized by anyone who saw her in Lewisburg. Being RFG's private attorney had an all woman staff, it seems to make the most sense to me. I would submit that the fact the meeting was never leaked goes to Attorney/Client Privilege if the firm is convinced there is reasonable doubt that foul play was involved. I would be interesting to show pictures of all of the female staff to the witnesses and see if they recognize anyone.

I think you would be right about what you just said pictures always say 1000 words she could be there it might be hard to get 2005 pictures even 2004

 

[Trackergd]

JJ, I have some questions about the route that RFG would have taken to Lewisburg.

I assume he would have taken Rt 144 through Pleasant Gap to 192.
Having been seen in Center Hall on 192, he had two options as he neared Rt 15 North. Take Rt 192 to the 192/15 intersection or go off Rt 192 and take Col John Kelly road to Rt 15. Any theory about the route? The route is important to me as I am looking for anywhere an ambush or clandestine meeting could have occurred.

Knowing that RFG loved antiques, I wonder if anyone checked with Steiger's Early Americana on Rt 144 to see if he has stopped in on the way?

 

[J. J. in Phila]

JJ, I have some questions about the route that RFG would have taken to Lewisburg.

I assume he would have taken Rt 144 through Pleasant Gap to 192.
Having been seen in Center Hall on 192, he had two options as he neared Rt 15 North. Take Rt 192 to the 192/15 intersection or go off Rt 192 and take Col John Kelly road to Rt 15. Any theory about the route? The route is important to me as I am looking for anywhere an ambush or clandestine meeting could have occurred.

Knowing that RFG loved antiques, I wonder if anyone checked with Steiger's Early Americana on Rt 144 to see if he has stopped in on the way?

As for the route, it is possible. It might add 5-10 minutes to the trip. RFG was spotted in Lewisburg around lunch time, which I would take between noon and 1:00 PM. Assume that, if he would have arrived at 12:30 PM, hypothetically, by going down 192 all the way, he could have turned on Col John Kelly Road and arrived at 12:35-12:40 PM. I don't know of any reports that he took that route, or why he would take it if he was heading to Lewisburg,

I don't know about Steiger's, but with all the press, it is likely to have been reported. Steiger's is not along the route. RFG was seen coming from the direction of Pleasant Gap and turning northeast on Route 192. He would have had to have gone straight to get there; when he turned, it was in the opposite direction and he'd be moving away from Steiger's.

 

[SuperSmith]

As for the route, it is possible. It might add 5-10 minutes to the trip. RFG was spotted in Lewisburg around lunch time, which I would take between noon and 1:00 PM. Assume that, if he would have arrived at 12:30 PM, hypothetically, by going down 192 all the way, he could have turned on Col John Kelly Road and arrived at 12:35-12:40 PM. I don't know of any reports that he took that route, or why he would take it if he was heading to Lewisburg,

I don't know about Steiger's, but with all the press, it is likely to have been reported. Steiger's is not along the route. RFG was seen coming from the direction of Pleasant Gap and turning northeast on Route 192. He would have had to have gone straight to get there; when he turned, it was in the opposite direction and he'd be moving away from Steiger's.

It was reported that RG had mapped out directions on his work PC to Lewisburg. Don't think they gave details

 

[J. J. in Phila]

It was reported that RG had mapped out directions on his work PC to Lewisburg. Don't think they gave details

The specific route was not revealed.

One question that we just don't know is the route RFG used crossing Lewisburg. From where he parked, it more likely that turned off Market Street (Route 45) on to Water Street.

 

[Trackergd]

Snipped:



PSU thought it could be discovered by the public if it was properly filed. They were hiding it from the press.

And if they were willing to go to the extent to hide files, what else were they prepared to do to keep the status quo, considering the institutional legacy and financial empire at stake?

 

[Trackergd]

The specific route was not revealed.

One question that we just don't know is the route RFG used crossing Lewisburg. From where he parked, it more likely that turned off Market Street (Route 45) on to Water Street.

45 and 192 are the more direct routes to Lewisburg. If he was seen in Centre Hall, it is fair to assume he took 144 from Bellefonte through Pleaseant Gap to 192 or further to 45.

You had noted in the past, RFG liked to drive fast and that one route was more his style due to the lack of LE speed traps. Following a couple of the theories, one could assume he also wanted to take a route that did not provide obvious record of his passage (i.e. less chance of being recognized.)

Not being recognized goes to clandestine meeting. More scenic goes to "the last ride, enjoy the view".

I would think that someone who was planning to commit suicide would not really give a darn about who saw him and when. Rather it would draw enough attention that a search would be mounted quickly and his remains might be found and speed the payout of insurance. Without leaving a note or leaving a very obvious breadcrumb trail risks his remains not being found to be declared deceased and extending the time for insurance and estate payouts.

Planing a clandestine meeting or planning to walk away would require a bit more subterfuge.

Nailing down the route may put us closer to the truth. Might have to drive both routes to get a feel.

Steiger's Early Americana is not far past 45 and with his love for antiques, might have been a favorite. May be worth a stop and chat with the owner.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I-80 is also a direct route, but it is patrolled by the PSP.

Knowing that RFG liked to drive fast, it is consistent that he would take 192.

As for the breadcrumbs, an easy way would have been to check his voice mail in Lewisburg. The call had the effect of having LE search along 192. That may or may not have been intentional.

 

[Trackergd]

I-80 is also a direct route, but it is patrolled by the PSP.

Knowing that RFG liked to drive fast, it is consistent that he would take 192.

As for the breadcrumbs, an easy way would have been to check his voice mail in Lewisburg. The call had the effect of having LE search along 192. That may or may not have been intentional.

I already know Rt 80. Other than off/on ramps and connecting roads, not much of note for our purposes.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

We don't have an exact time when RFG seen in Lewisburg in Lewisburg, though we might to narrow it down to about a 40-70 minute time period. He could have taken some route, including connecting with I-80, and arrived within that window.

The problem is that there is not a lot of time for RFG to do anything in that time, if he took another route. He could have stopped, bought gas, used a restroom, or purchased some water, and that would eat up the time. Likewise, he could had a lower average speed and there is no window. (I'm assuming an average speed of 60 MPH, but that would be difficult to maintain in Lewisburg itself.)

 

[Trackergd]

I-80 is also a direct route, but it is patrolled by the PSP.

Knowing that RFG liked to drive fast, it is consistent that he would take 192.

As for the breadcrumbs, an easy way would have been to check his voice mail in Lewisburg. The call had the effect of having LE search along 192. That may or may not have been intentional.

If LE was searching 192, I have to assume they have information we do not.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

If LE was searching 192, I have to assume they have information we do not.

It is where the call originated, but they also searched Route 45. The witness who saw him turning on 192 didn't know he was missing until after the Mini was found.

 

[ashleypa]

WJAC will be running a story on Gricar at 6 PM tonight.

You can see local opinions on their Facebook page:https://m.facebook.com/WJACTV

 

[J. J. in Phila]

WJAC will be running a story on Gricar at 6 PM tonight.

You can see local opinions on their Facebook page:https://m.facebook.com/WJACTV

Thanks!

Either something new or a report on around the first anniversary of the case being sent to the PSP.

Looking at the promo, it will discuss the theories and an interview with friends (probably Sloane, maybe BB or PEF).

 

[SeekingJana]

Thanks!

Either something new or a report on around the first anniversary of the case being sent to the PSP.

Looking at the promo, it will discuss the theories and an interview with friends (probably Sloane, maybe BB or PEF).

J.J., can you summarize when possible for you? Or if this video is available online somewhere, a link would be great.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

J.J., can you summarize when possible for you? Or if this video is available online somewhere, a link would be great.

Just coming to that: http://wjactv.com/news/features/top...earance-ray-gricar-remains-mystery-5194.shtml

There will be a segment on the investigation at 11:00 PM.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Just to give some details, Weaver (using the term"victimology") and Nau made the points that it would have been easier to to take RFG en route. Biery, a former commissioner, said that RFG had complained to him about always being accused of making determinations based on politics.

 

[SeekingJana]

I could be wrong, but I believe I heard Weaver say the " victimology" profile was low. I believe DZ said the same thing in years past..

I would like for this reporter to ask why the employees at the CCCH weren't questioned, why Sloane wasn't polygraphed, why Patty wasn't formally questioned. IF you think there might have been a murder, you start with the inner circle and work outwards. This was NOT done in Ray's case.

The historian talking about the bloodhounds bothered me a bit as well. IF he was in the SOS and Packwood House, was the dog or dogs taken there? AFAIK, no one's ever said. It makes no sense to me that they couldn't have tracked him if he was there, unless the dogs were brought in too late. If they were brought in too late, then someone needs to man up and say " We goofed with the timeline and the scent dogs". Because the scent being in a small area next to the car only just does not make sense to me IF RFG drove the car to Lewisburg and was actually seen in the SOS and other places in Lewisburg.
This all goes 'round in circles, I know.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

They are having a part on the investigation tonight.

PEF was questioned by the PSP. Sloane talked to a profiler with the PSP and was interviewed in 2010 by the BPD.