PA PA - Ray Gricar, 59, Bellefonte, 15 April 2005 - #13

[J. J. in Phila]

My source was ultimately from LE, and it was hinted at publicly in October 2005. Zaccagni said, "He [Mr. Gricar] made a conscious decision to go upstairs, take the laptop out of the case, get into his car and leave." How did he know that? Somebody saw him with the laptop in Lewisburg.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

One thing that I have considered is that the laptop was not related to the disappearance.

We know that RFG did three things regarding the laptop:

A. Ask others about removing the data.

B. Got a program that would remove the data.

C. Did the computer searches about water damage (though not exclusively).

He wanted that data gone. Now, he was a prosecutor and probably would know about LE recovering data. Whatever it was, he didn't want to take any chances on the data being read. He figured the next time he was away from the area, he'd drop it in a body of water. He could report it as accident, months later, and reimburse the county (which would not be a lot for a discontinued model that was used).

For some other reason, RFG drives to Lewisburg, possibly arriving before the time he was suppose to be there. He takes out the drive and tosses it, crosses over to the other side of the river, turns around, and drops the laptop in the water.

Then he handles the main purpose of the trip. That "main purpose" got him killed. I'll submit that as a possibility.

 

[Trackergd]

IF...RFG was in Lewisburg. This is one of my scenario concepts: "RFG arrives in Lewisburg early. Meets with a staff member of his attorney to hand off a contingency plan (continuity of finances) should something occur (mystery woman). Waits for the individual he planned to meet. The individual for some reason is very late. RFG becomes nervous as the data on the laptop is like a ticking time bomb to him and he had told P that he would be back. Finally decides the individual is a no show and wipes the data, removes the hard drive and dumps the components in the river. Goes back to the mini. The individual shows up, parks in the lot and walks up to the mini. RFG opens the window. The individual is smoking. Things go south when the individual learns the data is gone. Individual and RFG leave in the mini, then the individual returns alone with the mini and parks it in the same spot and exits the area" I have a few variations of this. Have fun with it or dismiss if you are so inclined.

 

[MissJ]

IF...RFG was in Lewisburg. This is one of my scenario concepts: "RFG arrives in Lewisburg early. Meets with a staff member of his attorney to hand off a contingency plan (continuity of finances) should something occur (mystery woman). Waits for the individual he planned to meet. The individual for some reason is very late. RFG becomes nervous as the data on the laptop is like a ticking time bomb to him and he had told P that he would be back. Finally decides the individual is a no show and wipes the data, removes the hard drive and dumps the components in the river. Goes back to the mini. The individual shows up, parks in the lot and walks up to the mini. RFG opens the window. The individual is smoking. Things go south when the individual learns the data is gone. Individual and RFG leave in the mini, then the individual returns alone with the mini and parks it in the same spot and exits the area" I have a few variations of this. Have fun with it or dismiss if you are so inclined.

I don't dismiss it. Kinda goes along with what I was thinking also.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

IF...RFG was in Lewisburg. This is one of my scenario concepts: "RFG arrives in Lewisburg early. Meets with a staff member of his attorney to hand off a contingency plan (continuity of finances) should something occur (mystery woman). Waits for the individual he planned to meet. The individual for some reason is very late. RFG becomes nervous as the data on the laptop is like a ticking time bomb to him and he had told P that he would be back. Finally decides the individual is a no show and wipes the data, removes the hard drive and dumps the components in the river. Goes back to the mini. The individual shows up, parks in the lot and walks up to the mini. RFG opens the window. The individual is smoking. Things go south when the individual learns the data is gone. Individual and RFG leave in the mini, then the individual returns alone with the mini and parks it in the same spot and exits the area" I have a few variations of this. Have fun with it or dismiss if you are so inclined.

I would not dismiss it, but it might not have been the staff member. The mystery woman was spotted with RFG late in the day, after five. In theory, he could have met her mid-afternoon and walked with her in the SoS after 5:00 PM.

Also, assuming it was foul play, the attorney, if not involved, would probably report it.

 

[SuperSmith]

My source was ultimately from LE, and it was hinted at publicly in October 2005. Zaccagni said, "He [Mr. Gricar] made a conscious decision to go upstairs, take the laptop out of the case, get into his car and leave." How did he know that? Somebody saw him with the laptop in Lewisburg.

A good friend of mine (whose memory is better than mine) correctly pointed out that indeed the detective was quoted as saying this however it was in the context as a possible theory and not evidence of fact.

LE didn't know (and still don't) the circumstances of the laptop which includes but is not limited to when the laptop was removed, who removed, who separated the hard drive, who threw it in the river, and what it might contain.

I think we need to be careful pulling quotes out of context irresponsibly to fit our own narratives and theories.

Facts are facts and what ifs are what ifs.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

A good friend of mine (whose memory is better than mine) correctly pointed out that indeed the detective was quoted as saying this however it was in the context as a possible theory and not evidence of fact.

LE didn't know (and still don't) the circumstances of the laptop which includes but is not limited to when the laptop was removed, who removed, who separated the hard drive, who threw it in the river, and what it might contain.

I think we need to be careful pulling quotes out of context irresponsibly to fit our own narratives and theories.

Facts are facts and what ifs are what ifs.

Actually, both the laptop (07/30/05) and the separated drive (09/23/05) had been found. It was not presented as a theory that RFG brought it to Lewisburg. The quote is: “He [Mr. Gricar] made a conscious decision to go upstairs, take the laptop out of the case, get into his car and leave." Note that Zaccagni did not say that he removed the drive or that he tossed the laptop. Also note that they did have witnesses that RFG got in his car and left, by that point in the investigation.

 

[SuperSmith]

Actually, both the laptop (07/30/05) and the separated drive (09/23/05) had been found. It was not presented as a theory that RFG brought it to Lewisburg. The quote is: “He [Mr. Gricar] made a conscious decision to go upstairs, take the laptop out of the case, get into his car and leave." Note that Zaccagni did not say that he removed the drive or that he tossed the laptop. Also note that they did have witnesses that RFG got in his car and left, by that point in the investigation.

Do you have a link to the quote? Perhaps to save argument it would be better for others to read it for themselves to formulate their own opinion rather than accepting what you say as gospel.

No disrespect intended but the quote should be fairly presented.

 

[Trackergd]

I would not dismiss it, but it might not have been the staff member. The mystery woman was spotted with RFG late in the day, after five. In theory, he could have met her mid-afternoon and walked with her in the SoS after 5:00 PM.

Also, assuming it was foul play, the attorney, if not involved, would probably report it.

OK, we move the meeting with the attorneys office staffer to later in the day. We can juggle the events during the day around like a puzzle until they fit. We have found no evidence of "another woman" and the mystery woman was not recognized by anyone who saw her in Lewisburg. Being RFG's private attorney had an all woman staff, it seems to make the most sense to me. I would submit that the fact the meeting was never leaked goes to Attorney/Client Privilege if the firm is convinced there is reasonable doubt that foul play was involved. I would be interesting to show pictures of all of the female staff to the witnesses and see if they recognize anyone.

 

[Trackergd]

Yes, but not in Lewisburg.

There were several witnesses who knew him, that saw him to the west of, or in, Centre Hall. The timeline does fit with RFG getting to Lewisburg around lunchtime. At that point 3-4 witnesses spotted him, in the Mini, across from the Packwood House.

Is there anything in print from MSM or LE that confirms this. I would like to know if I am only searching from Bellefonte to somewhere near Lewisburg, or if Lewisburg is actually the LKP as far as LE is concerned. We have debate within our group here on this and it would help a lot to nail that down once and for all.

 

[Trackergd]

Something else that bugs me. IF...RFG spent the night in or near Lewisburg, one would assume his cell phone would have been blowing up with calls from P wondering where in the heck he was. Anything released about the phone records?

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Do you have a link to the quote? Perhaps to save argument it would be better for others to read it for themselves to formulate their own opinion rather than accepting what you say as gospel.

No disrespect intended but the quote should be fairly presented.

No, but I cited the article. You can get it from the CDT.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Is there anything in print from MSM or LE that confirms this. I would like to know if I am only searching from Bellefonte to somewhere near Lewisburg, or if Lewisburg is actually the LKP as far as LE is concerned. We have debate within our group here on this and it would help a lot to nail that down once and for all.

Disappeared indicated that they had a witness that saw RFG turning on 192 at Centre Hall. I know of at least one other West of Centre Hall. Yes, MSM did confirm this. Renner's "The River's Edge mentions the 3 to 4 witnesses." The were at the Packwood House Museum. One was named Jennifer Snyder; she worked there. (The name has been published.)

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Something else that bugs me. IF...RFG spent the night in or near Lewisburg, one would assume his cell phone would have been blowing up with calls from P wondering where in the heck he was. Anything released about the phone records?

The last completed call was from him just northeast of Centre Hall. PEF called him repeatedly, and it went to voice mail. I think LE tried the phone; the CDT did too, on Saturday. No contact since that last call to PEF.

 

[SuperSmith]

No, but I cited the article. You can get it from the CDT.

And please let this lesson to all that are interested in the Gricar disappearance that just because someone is the most recognized in speaking up about the Gricar case doesn't mean they have a better answer, know more, or what they say is fact in the case

 

[SuperSmith]

Disappeared indicated that they had a witness that saw RFG turning on 192 at Centre Hall. I know of at least one other West of Centre Hall. Yes, MSM did confirm this. Renner's "The River's Edge mentions the 3 to 4 witnesses." The were at the Packwood House Museum. One was named Jennifer Snyder; she worked there. (The name has been published.)

If you KNOW of another witness why not tell us who or please tell LE

 

[SuperSmith]

Disappeared indicated that they had a witness that saw RFG turning on 192 at Centre Hall. I know of at least one other West of Centre Hall. Yes, MSM did confirm this. Renner's "The River's Edge mentions the 3 to 4 witnesses." The were at the Packwood House Museum. One was named Jennifer Snyder; she worked there. (The name has been published.)

This is totally incorrect. Readers please see for yourself

 

[Tricia]

Please remember we do not allow personal attacks on Websleuths.

Thank You

 

[J. J. in Phila]

And please let this lesson to all that are interested in the Gricar disappearance that just because someone is the most recognized in speaking up about the Gricar case doesn't mean they have a better answer, know more, or what they say is fact in the case

The paper and date were cited. I did keep a record of where the article originated. People are free to get a copy, though probably not for free.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

If you KNOW of another witness why not tell us who or please tell LE

LE knows. I do hold back some things as requested.