Italy’s Highest Appeals Court to Decide Amanda Knox’s Fate

[redheadedgal]

i am finding some of the recent comments about amanda utterly appalling. surely there are other forums on the web better suited to such a discussion?

 

[sherlockh]

Amanda's appeal to the ECHR is on the grounds that her rights to a fair trial and her human rights were violated in getting a coerced confession. The ECHR states that it cannot quash a conviction. It can rule on Amanda's claim concerning her human rights being violated and award her damages. The conviction will stand in Italy and Amanda evidently will owe Patrick L. some money. I don't know how long the ECHR will take, or even if it has accepted the case.

Glenn

Yes, so she is a convicted criminal. No reason to treat her like a celebrity IMO.

 

[Pisces Cloud]

Eight years on, Italy asks: so who were Meredith Kercher’s killers?

http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...her-amanda-knox-raffaele-sollecito-italy-case

 

[Pisces Cloud]

An interesting read with regards to their alibi. I also wonder if they turned off their phones as a regular occurence or whether it was just a one-off.

http://themurderofmeredithkercher.com/Problems_With_The_Alibi

 

[evafiore]

Eight years on, Italy asks: so who were Meredith Kercher’s killers?

http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...her-amanda-knox-raffaele-sollecito-italy-case

It's pretty clear to me that Meredith's killer (singular) is now eligible for day parole.

 

[Monzoo]

Amanda's appeal to the ECHR is on the grounds that her rights to a fair trial and her human rights were violated in getting a coerced confession. The ECHR states that it cannot quash a conviction. It can rule on Amanda's claim concerning her human rights being violated and award her damages. The conviction will stand in Italy and Amanda evidently will owe Patrick L. some money. I don't know how long the ECHR will take, or even if it has accepted the case.

Glenn

If they rule her human rights are violated, I believe Italy's laws would require the verdict to be quashed/ case reopened. I will have to look for the specific case law.

I believe that this is what will happen, and Italy will find itself with a case of caunnia where the entirety of the evidence has been judged to be in violation of AK's human rights. The verdict will be quashed, and there will be no retrial.

 

[Monzoo]

An interesting read with regards to their alibi. I also wonder if they turned off their phones as a regular occurence or whether it was just a one-off.

http://themurderofmeredithkercher.com/Problems_With_The_Alibi

AK and RS had known each other for six days at the time of Meredith's murder. That's not enough time to establish anything as a regular occurrence.

 

[AW2B]

I actually think this kind of thing is at about the same level as Palm reading and other parlor games .. Load of bunk!

Palm reading?? Are you saying that no one has the ability to detect deception? Based on your argument anyone could be totally helpless when dealing with a con man? As no one would know the difference between a deceptive person vs. an honest person! IMO..this is ridiculous!

 

[Mrs G Norris]

Eight years on, Italy asks: so who were Meredith Kercher’s killers?

http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...her-amanda-knox-raffaele-sollecito-italy-case

I'm starting to wonder about The Guardian in light of some of their recent articles.

 

[glamourkitty1922]

Palm reading?? Are you saying that no one has the ability to detect deception? Based on your argument anyone could be totally helpless when dealing with a con man? As no one would know the difference between a deceptive person vs. an honest person! IMO..this is ridiculous!

Actually the "experts" on body language, word usage, etc etc are considered on the same level as a palm reader for a good reason. It is junk science. All humans are individuals with their own way of speaking, acting etc. Remember the so called "expert" on word usage? I remember when he claimed that a child in Utah was murdered by her mother and grandfather. Then they arrested the actual murderer--who had no connection to the family. Who is probably a serial killer of children. He had that poor child's DNA all over his underwear. The family was TORTURED by that man and his followers......pity they didn't sue him. He took the page down and pretended it didn't happen after the real murderer was arrested.
I will always go with real evidence. The Italian SC made the right decision. AK and RS were railroaded.

 

[Monzoo]

Palm reading?? Are you saying that no one has the ability to detect deception? Based on your argument anyone could be totally helpless when dealing with a con man? As no one would know the difference between a deceptive person vs. an honest person! IMO..this is ridiculous!

I think that the idea that someone can detect lies by watching video snippets is pure bunk.

The human mind is quite susceptible to confirmation bias, IMHO. We tend to see information that agrees with things we have already decided are true, and tend not to see things that challenge our beliefs.

I suspect this "eyes for lies" person is only seeing what she wants to see.

 

[glamourkitty1922]

Yes, so she is a convicted criminal. No reason to treat her like a celebrity IMO.

She is not a criminal if she was given an unfair trial. She was being interrogated in a language which she was not all that fluent in. Who knows what she actually said. The whole trial was a farce. Yet Rude Guede's trial was well orchastrated with true DNA evidence, his arrests for second story burglaries and attacking another person with a knife. There was no doubt of his guilt.
So Italy's justice system isn't completely bonkers and out of the Dark Ages.

 

[Hiandmighty]

You can no longer call her a convicted criminal.

 

[magnolia]

I think that the idea that someone can detect lies by watching video snippets is pure bunk.

The human mind is quite susceptible to confirmation bias, IMHO. We tend to see information that agrees with things we have already decided are true, and tend not to see things that challenge our beliefs.

I suspect this "eyes for lies" person is only seeing what she wants to see.

I have always been on the fence regarding this case. I don't have any bias for or against Amanda Knox. She comes across as insincere to me. Many people I know share the same opinion.

 

[Glenn101]

At this point in time I am inclined to look a bit more kindly on the Nencini motivation report. When it was released and analyzed, there were collective cyber gasps of surprise at how brazenly it included so many "colossal errors". At the time of its release, I actually wondered if the presiding judge had done this on purpose. The previous ruling by the Italian Court of Cassation overturning the Hellman exoneration had almost ordered the Nencini court to find Amanda and Rafaelle guilty. But there was so much stuff added into that verdict. Stuff that had already been ruled inadmissible or which defied logic, such as averring that a selective cleanup of the crime scene had to have taken place, in spite of the impossibility of such a feat. I cannot read anyone's mind, but that report, as nonsensical as it was, maybe was designed to force the Court of Cassation to end the farce. This one was ripe for an ECHR review and it would have been a humiliating ruling against Italy and its legal system, in my opinion. The court of Cassation judges were faced with a problem of either protecting a few people, or maybe facing official ridicule and censure from the EU.

That report was eviscerated by at least one analysis and in the appeal documents that were filed by the defense. (Yet there will always be those who echo the sentiments of the prosecution to the Court of Cassation that the prosecution case was "perfect".)

Italy already has one of the highest rates of HR abuses reported to the ECHR and confirmed. Of course I could be wrong. But I am thinking that Nencini was not really all that delusional.

Glenn

 

[ZaZara]

I'm starting to wonder about The Guardian in light of some of their recent articles.

Welcome to the club! ;-)




I haven't followed this case in detail, so I hope that my question has already been answered and someone can tell me where to find the answer:

When the court decided that Rudy Guede did not act alone, what were the grounds for that ruling?
What evidence points to the (legal) fact that he did not act alone?

I know that there are experts who doubt this, and I tend to agree, but the court decided differently and they must have grounds for that.

 

[Footwarrior]

I haven't followed this case in detail, so I hope that my question has already been answered and someone can tell me where to find the answer:

When the court decided that Rudy Guede did not act alone, what were the grounds for that ruling?
What evidence points to the (legal) fact that he did not act alone?

I know that there are experts who doubt this, and I tend to agree, but the court decided differently and they must have grounds for that.

The legal "fact" that Guede did not act alone was established in a trial where both sides had reasons to support that idea. The prosecution wanted to convict RS and AK for the same crime and the defense wanted others to share the guilt.

The evidence to support this was flimsy at best. Claims that Meredith's self defense training would have protected her against a larger athletic man armed with a knife. A claim that two knives were used when in fact her wounds are consistent with one knife matching the bloody outline found on her bed.

The evidence in this case is entirely consistent with Rudy Guede acting alone.

 

[Monzoo]

Welcome to the club! ;-)




I haven't followed this case in detail, so I hope that my question has already been answered and someone can tell me where to find the answer:

When the court decided that Rudy Guede did not act alone, what were the grounds for that ruling?
What evidence points to the (legal) fact that he did not act alone?

I know that there are experts who doubt this, and I tend to agree, but the court decided differently and they must have grounds for that.

Unfortunately, there is a great deal about Rudy Guede's trials that is not known. According to Nina Burleigh, his trial records are sealed.

ninaburleigh
‏@ninaburleigh
When will journalists in #Italy demand the sealed Rudy Guede trial records? #amandaknox #MeredithKercher
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The reports from his trials can be found here.

It's important to remember, though, that no one with standing at RG's trials had any interest in NOT arguing that there were multiple attackers. The prosecution, who still had AK and RS scheduled for trial, wanted to keep them in the story. RG, regardless of the truth, would be happy to share the blame for the murder with others.

 

[Glenn101]

The legal "fact" that Guede did not act alone was established in a trial where both sides had reasons to support that idea. The prosecution wanted to convict RS and AK for the same crime and the defense wanted others to share the guilt.

The evidence to support this was flimsy at best. Claims that Meredith's self defense training would have protected her against a larger athletic man armed with a knife. A claim that two knives were used when in fact her wounds are consistent with one knife matching the bloody outline found on her bed.

The evidence in this case is entirely consistent with Rudy Guede acting alone.

That was Rudy's fast track trial where neither Rafaelle nor Amanda had legal representation. This emerged as a "judicial fact". So now, Rudy killed Meredith aided and abetted by person or persons unknown which were not Rafaelle nor Amanda.

Glenn

 

[Footwarrior]

That was Rudy's fast track trial where neither Rafaelle nor Amanda had legal representation. This emerged as a "judicial fact". So now, Rudy killed Meredith aided and abetted by person or persons unknown which were not Rafaelle nor Amanda.

Meredith was killed by Rudy and his invisible friends.