Sentencing and beyond- Jodi Arias General Discussion #1

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On the subject of things found/not found (KY bottle, condom, condom wrapper) did the scratched photo cd (cd's?) ever turn up? Or any pieces of cd's? Didn't Jodi say Travis was so enraged about a scratched cd that he threw it at a wall, it broke, and one of the pieces bounced off the wall and hit her? I know she says they couldn't look at the photos because of the virus on Travis's computer, but she also says the problem was that the cd's were scratched. Also, does anyone recall whether or not JM asked her why she brought these cd's at all, since according to her, she didn't leave Yreka with the intention of visiting Travis?

I used to think that if there ever were any cd's, Jodi used them to make Travis see her one last time. But that never really made much sense to me, because I don't believe he'd want to save any pictures that she'd taken -- but then again, he still had the shaving picture on his Myspace page. After reading his pleas for the return of his journals, I think Jodi told him she'd return them if he agreed to see her one last time. "You'll do 'almost anything' to get your journals back? OK then, just let me take some pictures of you in the shower, then I'll let you have your journals and I promise you'll never hear from me again." Maybe?

Also -- did the ring ever turn up?

Sorry if this has all been discussed at length elsewhere.

To the best of my knowledge the CD hasn't been found, and yes, JM did mention it, he used her saying she brought it as proof of premeditation, that she would have had the CD at home, and left home to go to Redding to rent the car, so would have had to pack the CD in Yreka and bring it with her, with full intent on going to Mesa to see Travis. He's so brilliant. But I don't think a CD existed, she could have e-mailed any pics to him if he wanted them, why bring a scratched CD on a trip to a town she says she didn't plan on visiting? I don't know if the ring ever turned up either, was any testimony about it allowed? I wish JSS would unseal all the sealed docs, we could find out quite a bit, I'll bet.
 
Can you imagine what a hellion she was in her teens? My mother would have been so disappointed if I had dropped out of high school. I believe her psychopathy began at an early age, but really exacerbated itself when she quit school. She probably pissed off her parents every chance she got and never showed any remorse or respect. I was no angel in high school, but felt incredibly guilty when I messed up and it made me sad to think I hurt my mom (my dad died when I was 7). I do think, however,that her parents tried to handle her and didn't know how, never explored any professional help and wrote her off too quickly as they had several younger kids to raise after Jodi. Who quits high school in 10th grade and moves into a trailer with a boyfriend and then doesn't get her GED until she was jailed for murder 19 years later? By then, she was totally on the BPD road. I also find it odd she was able to have a 4 year relationship with Darryl.

* I thought I heard (or read) somewhere that she got her GED while she was behind bars awaiting her murder trial.

I also remember her testifying at trial that she attended the local college in Monterey for a while. Really? She wanted people to believe that she, a tenth grade high school drop out, was enrolled in college with no high school diploma or GED? I guess maybe she didn't think the qualifications for entry into college applied to her. Though I think I already know the answers, I should call the school and ask how I can check to see if she ever applied, enrolled or attended.

The thing is, why lie about something as trivial as that when she didn't have to? Unless, perhaps, she was concerned a jury might find a tenth grade high school drop out guilty of murder, but not someone who attended "college" in her mind?

But that's another example of how she attempted to "pad her resume" (so to speak) with others.
 
I think it was more like 3 years. they bought the house in 2005 and he was out of there in 2006. I believe they began dating in 2003.
really wonder how solid of a relationship her and Daryl had?
 
looks like Jen Wood from the Trial Diaries is planning on attending.


The Trial Diaries
16 mins ·
Reminder: Monday 8:30am is the restitution hearing for the Alexander family and I will be there reporting! I believe Jodi waived going since Perryville food is so good and the temp is amazing in her cell wink emoticon Follow me on Periscope for some live action before I enter courthouse.


https://twitter.com/search?q=TrialdiariesJ&vertical=default&f=tweets
 
* I thought I heard (or read) somewhere that she got her GED while she was behind bars awaiting her murder trial.

I also remember her testifying at trial that she attended the local college in Monterey for a while. Really? She wanted people to believe that she, a tenth grade high school drop out, was enrolled in college with no high school diploma or GED? I guess maybe she didn't think the qualifications for entry into college applied to her. Though I think I already know the answers, I should call the school and ask how I can check to see if she ever applied, enrolled or attended.

The thing is, why lie about something as trivial as that when she didn't have to? Unless, perhaps, she was concerned a jury might find a tenth grade high school drop out guilty of murder, but not someone who attended "college" in her mind?

But that's another example of how she attempted to "pad her resume" (so to speak) with others.

Don't know about down there, but up here in Canada you don't need a GED to take Continuing Ed courses.... like Photography Basics, Digital Photos, Word processing, eBay 101, Downsizing, Spanish/French/etc., Drawing for Beginners, Crochet, etc... many of which are offered at Colleges(just not "in" College). So she can say she went "to" College, just it likely wasn't in the sense that she attended college level accredited programs. (I believe that would be classified as a "white" lie, or lie by omission.)
 
I always believed that Jodi, as an adult, was quite aware of her underachievements in life and made a conscious effort in every way to portrait an image of herself to others that said she was anything but a high school dropout/professional waitress.

To be sure, she's sneaky and crafty. But was that "learned" behavior as she navigated through her teen years and beyond, or did that come naturally to her without any serious effort or conscious thought? Maybe a combination of both? "Learned" behavior out of necessity in her early teen years, and that behavior then became normal for her and, thus, she became oblivious to her own 'social performance'?

I honestly can't determine if she's wired wrong or not, but something led her down the wrong path in life.

I think she's really wired differently than most folks, if that's a suitable metaphor for a psychopath, which is what I believe she is. It's hard to get my head around, but I try. I try to get a picture of her world-view, trace her behavior back to a mind for which that behavior is natural, logical, explainable.

As far as where her psychopathy came from, I don't think it was a compensation for underachievement, I think it's much deeper than that. Most experts seem to think it's a product of emotional neglect in the formative years, with maybe a genetic component as well.

As far as the manipulative component of psychopathy, that's baked in, an integral part of it. In other words, she doesn't need to learn how to manipulate, just what (or who) to manipulate, in the latter is found the learning process for her.

As far as self-awareness of her underachievement, of course she has, but again, it's not like a normal persons. In a normal person, there would be a comparison with others because they see others as at least potential equals, and new-found drive, or insecurity or something else would step in to compensate. This doesn't exist for her, there is no mechanism, no necessity, to compare herself to others, not at least with a view to achieving equality, or superiority, or awareness of inferiority. The only time comparison with others would present itself to her as warranted, necessary, or even possible would be when she's maneuvering herself towards a gain, and she needs to be in the more favorable position. Of course this is a superficial comparison, involving superficial changes, and would have no actual effect on her psyche, create no real change.

All of this is because, as i've said before, she does not live in a world of equals (or potential equals). There is her, and then there is the world out there, and that world does not consist of beings like her. This actually is the difficult to understand heart of it. The closest I can come to describe it is, she's 3 dimensional, and the the world, everything else that exists, is 2 dimensional. It's not that she sees the world as unreal, or literally 2 dimensional, but there's a fundamental difference, an unbridgeable gap. she knows the world is real, but it's different than her, she's more real, and there is no possibility of it ever being the same, or of the world being real and she being a part of it, at least that's how she sees it.
 
I think she's really wired differently than most folks, if that's a suitable metaphor for a psychopath, which is what I believe she is. It's hard to get my head around, but I try. I try to get a picture of her world-view, trace her behavior back to a mind for which that behavior is natural, logical, explainable.

As far as where her psychopathy came from, I don't think it was a compensation for underachievement, I think it's much deeper than that. Most experts seem to think it's a product of emotional neglect in the formative years, with maybe a genetic component as well.

As far as the manipulative component of psychopathy, that's baked in, an integral part of it. In other words, she doesn't need to learn how to manipulate, just what (or who) to manipulate, in the latter is found the learning process for her.

As far as self-awareness of her underachievement, of course she has, but again, it's not like a normal persons. In a normal person, there would be a comparison with others because they see others as at least potential equals, and new-found drive, or insecurity or something else would step in to compensate. This doesn't exist for her, there is no mechanism, no necessity, to compare herself to others, not at least with a view to achieving equality, or superiority, or awareness of inferiority. The only time comparison with others would present itself to her as warranted, necessary, or even possible would be when she's maneuvering herself towards a gain, and she needs to be in the more favorable position. Of course this is a superficial comparison, involving superficial changes, and would have no actual effect on her psyche, create no real change.

All of this is because, as i've said before, she does not live in a world of equals (or potential equals). There is her, and then there is the world out there, and that world does not consist of beings like her. This actually is the difficult to understand heart of it. The closest I can come to describe it is, she's 3 dimensional, and the the world, everything else that exists, is 2 dimensional. It's not that she sees the world as unreal, or literally 2 dimensional, but there's a fundamental difference, an unbridgeable gap. she knows the world is real, but it's different than her, she's more real, and there is no possibility of it ever being the same, or of the world being real and she being a part of it, at least that's how she sees it.

I agree, it's like she views life the same way as those "certain" players in online mmos do... it's all entertainment(or income for some) for them and they have no conscience or remorse about doing things that affect others, because to them it's "just a game" and they don't care that there's a live person playing that other character that they've just harassed for hours or even days and told to go kill themselves in all kinds of horrible ways because they beat them to something in the game(can be as small as a respawnable ore node).

Iow's, in JA's world, everything but her is worth nothing more than a npc.
 
* I thought I heard (or read) somewhere that she got her GED while she was behind bars awaiting her murder trial.

I also remember her testifying at trial that she attended the local college in Monterey for a while. Really? She wanted people to believe that she, a tenth grade high school drop out, was enrolled in college with no high school diploma or GED? I guess maybe she didn't think the qualifications for entry into college applied to her. Though I think I already know the answers, I should call the school and ask how I can check to see if she ever applied, enrolled or attended.

The thing is, why lie about something as trivial as that when she didn't have to? Unless, perhaps, she was concerned a jury might find a tenth grade high school drop out guilty of murder, but not someone who attended "college" in her mind?

But that's another example of how she attempted to "pad her resume" (so to speak) with others.

I think she could have "enrolled" in a non-credit class. Our local community college has "community ed" classes in things like flower arranging and making your own will. That's about as close to attending college as the murderer got I imagine.
 
I agree, it's like she views life the same way as those "certain" players in online mmos do... it's all entertainment(or income for some) for them and they have no conscience or remorse about doing things that affect others, because to them it's "just a game" and they don't care that there's a live person playing that other character that they've just harassed for hours or even days and told to go kill themselves in all kinds of horrible ways because they beat them to something in the game(can be as small as a respawnable ore node).

Iow's, in JA's world, everything but her is worth nothing more than a npc.

That's a good way to put it. I'm trying to get my head around this 'gap' that creates such a fundamental difference between her and the world in her perception. it's like something is severed that in most people is connected. It's kind of creepy.
 
Sorry, I made an error. She received her GED in jail while awaiting trial, not 19 yrs, but 10. I respond on a tiny phone and the numbers are very close.
Regarding whether she was 'wired' toward psychopathy at birth, or it developed as she grew up, it is the classic argument on whether mental illness or deviant behavior is there at birth or develops later due to the environment as she got older.
I too think she was very aware of her underachievement and tried to compensate by reading books on various disciplines, ie philosophy, new age, Shakespeare. By the time she met Travis, she recognized whatever her strategies she tried in the past weren't working. She couldn't nab a husband to provide her needs, was finding it difficult to keep a job (but never recognized it was her behavior that was the root cause) & needed to change as chameleons do to achieve her goals. Then she met Travis, 'dabbled' in Mormonism, found his weakness and latched on to him. She used her body to reel him in.
Travis finally figured her out, but by that time it was too late. I wonder if he knew she was a high school dropout, or of her past history with her parents and boyfriends. I am sure she lied about that too. While Travis was no angel, he was somewhat naive in the ways of the world and too trusting of her. It appeared many of his friends recognized her evil nature way before he did, through no fault of his own.
To the killer, however, he was her ticket to a better more secure life. When he didn't comply, his fate was sealed.
 
Travis was no angel, he was somewhat naive in the ways of the world and too trusting of her. It appeared many of his friends recognized her evil nature way before he did, through no fault of his own.
To the killer, however, he was her ticket to a better more secure life. When he didn't comply, his fate was sealed.

While all of this is true, keep in mind that his friends also were not the focus of her direct manipulation, at least not to the same degree that Travis was, this automatically gave them a different perspective and a way to view her behavior with more detachment without her direct interference and counter-measures.
 
Someone mentioned above about the court sealed papers JSS has yet to release. Anyone know "when" that might happen and also Sheriff Joe's report? Or will those have to be put on hold because of her appeal?

TIA! :wave:
 
Someone mentioned above about the court sealed papers JSS has yet to release. Anyone know "when" that might happen and also Sheriff Joe's report? Or will those have to be put on hold because of her appeal?

TIA! :wave:

No clue, I'm *hoping* that once the restitution hearing is over and JSS' part is done (until the post conviction relief appeal, of course) the sealed docs will all be unsealed. I can't imagine JSS would keep everything sealed until after the PCR appeal but there's been so much unimaginable in this case I suppose it's anyone's guess what she'll do and when.
 
Sorry, I made an error. She received her GED in jail while awaiting trial, not 19 yrs, but 10. I respond on a tiny phone and the numbers are very close.
Regarding whether she was 'wired' toward psychopathy at birth, or it developed as she grew up, it is the classic argument on whether mental illness or deviant behavior is there at birth or develops later due to the environment as she got older.
I too think she was very aware of her underachievement and tried to compensate by reading books on various disciplines, ie philosophy, new age, Shakespeare. By the time she met Travis, she recognized whatever her strategies she tried in the past weren't working. She couldn't nab a husband to provide her needs, was finding it difficult to keep a job (but never recognized it was her behavior that was the root cause) & needed to change as chameleons do to achieve her goals. Then she met Travis, 'dabbled' in Mormonism, found his weakness and latched on to him. She used her body to reel him in.
Travis finally figured her out, but by that time it was too late. I wonder if he knew she was a high school dropout, or of her past history with her parents and boyfriends. I am sure she lied about that too. While Travis was no angel, he was somewhat naive in the ways of the world and too trusting of her. It appeared many of his friends recognized her evil nature way before he did, through no fault of his own.
To the killer, however, he was her ticket to a better more secure life. When he didn't comply, his fate was sealed.

YES!!!!! The "thanks" button is not enough. I wholeheartedly agree with everything you say.
 
To the best of my knowledge the CD hasn't been found, and yes, JM did mention it, he used her saying she brought it as proof of premeditation, that she would have had the CD at home, and left home to go to Redding to rent the car, so would have had to pack the CD in Yreka and bring it with her, with full intent on going to Mesa to see Travis. He's so brilliant. But I don't think a CD existed, she could have e-mailed any pics to him if he wanted them, why bring a scratched CD on a trip to a town she says she didn't plan on visiting? I don't know if the ring ever turned up either, was any testimony about it allowed? I wish JSS would unseal all the sealed docs, we could find out quite a bit, I'll bet.


i liked how juan would get her to admit to things that obviously proved premeditation but not question her further on it so she couldn't come up with an excuse. you know the jury noticed it though, as we did. i remember him asking her about that but not getting into it, just making sure it was out there.
 
Someone mentioned above about the court sealed papers JSS has yet to release. Anyone know "when" that might happen and also Sheriff Joe's report? Or will those have to be put on hold because of her appeal?

TIA! :wave:

According to Beth Karas who has been trying to get Court docs The 1 trial the sidebars are sealed and will not be available until appeals are complete.

As for the 2 3 ringed binder with Jodi's Jail records the DA's office still has them and may not be released until they are finished with it. Charges May come from the DA against players in
the Defense?
 
That's a good way to put it. I'm trying to get my head around this 'gap' that creates such a fundamental difference between her and the world in her perception. it's like something is severed that in most people is connected. It's kind of creepy.

The analogy that helps me to kinda, sorta understand her is the way a one- or two-year-old perceives his or her world.
 
I think she's really wired differently than most folks, if that's a suitable metaphor for a psychopath, which is what I believe she is. It's hard to get my head around, but I try. I try to get a picture of her world-view, trace her behavior back to a mind for which that behavior is natural, logical, explainable.

As far as where her psychopathy came from, I don't think it was a compensation for underachievement, I think it's much deeper than that. Most experts seem to think it's a product of emotional neglect in the formative years, with maybe a genetic component as well.

As far as the manipulative component of psychopathy, that's baked in, an integral part of it. In other words, she doesn't need to learn how to manipulate, just what (or who) to manipulate, in the latter is found the learning process for her.

As far as self-awareness of her underachievement, of course she has, but again, it's not like a normal persons. In a normal person, there would be a comparison with others because they see others as at least potential equals, and new-found drive, or insecurity or something else would step in to compensate. This doesn't exist for her, there is no mechanism, no necessity, to compare herself to others, not at least with a view to achieving equality, or superiority, or awareness of inferiority. The only time comparison with others would present itself to her as warranted, necessary, or even possible would be when she's maneuvering herself towards a gain, and she needs to be in the more favorable position. Of course this is a superficial comparison, involving superficial changes, and would have no actual effect on her psyche, create no real change.

All of this is because, as i've said before, she does not live in a world of equals (or potential equals). There is her, and then there is the world out there, and that world does not consist of beings like her. This actually is the difficult to understand heart of it. The closest I can come to describe it is, she's 3 dimensional, and the the world, everything else that exists, is 2 dimensional. It's not that she sees the world as unreal, or literally 2 dimensional, but there's a fundamental difference, an unbridgeable gap. she knows the world is real, but it's different than her, she's more real, and there is no possibility of it ever being the same, or of the world being real and she being a part of it, at least that's how she sees it.

After reading the article below on how a child psychopath behaves (i.e. very much like Jodi), it seems quite obvious to me that, although there might have been some damage created by family dynamics in her formative years, the psychopathy was already there. Jodi's manipulative behavior may have contributed to any "neglect" she might have suffered and it might also have warped family relationships.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/13/magazine/can-you-call-a-9-year-old-a-psychopath.html?_r=0
 
After reading the article below on how a child psychopath behaves (i.e. very much like Jodi), it seems quite obvious to me that, although there might have been some damage created by family dynamics in her formative years, the psychopathy was already there. Jodi's manipulative behavior may have contributed to any "neglect" she might have suffered and it might also have warped family relationships.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/13/magazine/can-you-call-a-9-year-old-a-psychopath.html?_r=0

That is terrifying. It's also incredible that it accurately describes my 54 year old SIL. I'm not exaggerating, this is like a lightbulb moment. We've always suspected psychopathy among other issues, but we also know there's a maturity problem and it was interesting to see her behavior akin to a 9 year old which is older than we suspected.

She is just as terrifying as Michael in this story.
 
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