ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #2

[SweetT]

Just to give you some ease of mind, I saw that reported by someone else last week, and there was a big flurry then about getting the info to the sheriff.

When I first saw it I went to the FB page (RC) and saw he had been active in playing many FB detective games. There were also some rumors of him writing some sort of book on psychics. My thoughts were then that he was trying his best to help, not trying to hinder, but going about it in the wrong way.

Of course, it doesn't hurt to have LE give a second look

So like a psychic reading? Got it.

 

[flourish]

The Cremains: Hmmmm, let's try to explain them:

Some old fella used to go fishin' there all the time.

He died.

His widow knows he asked to have his ashes spread at his favorite fishin' hole.

Early in the morning, her and a couple of the kids head out for the reservoir.

Strange....... lots of activity here this morning......oh well.....doesn't concern us.

Let's go up to the edge of the water, say a prayer, and pour granddad in.

"Hello officer, is there a problem ?"
-------------------------------------------

The end of this story would be when law enforcement explains to them that they are in the middle of a search area for a missing toddler, at which point they interview them and find out about grandad, who died last week.

LE takes their name and information and send them on their way.....but the ashes were already put in the water........memorial service will have to wait.

LE issues a statement saying "someone" was over their spreading cremains in the water, and it's messin' with the cadaver dogs. They didn't bother saying who this "someone" was, but they know, and chances are good she was about 80 years old and had blue hair. This is someone who was simply fulfilling a final wish, otherwise they would be in the back of a squad car in handcuffs.


IMO

Exactly!


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[Hatfield]

What purpose would it serve to return his cremains to the initial search area?

Respectfully....I think sometimes people havent read back far enough to see how discussions evolve.

The discussion evolved from the fact that cremains were being dumped in the reservoir during the search. And we began talking about how some perp may have tried to mess up the search dogs by sprinkling in somebodys ashes upstream just below the reservoir so it would carry down the stream.

Then it was brought up that the perp could have even been sprinkling in the boys ashes mixed in with someone elses ashes.

If the perp took the boy away from the area OR he was never there to begin with then he could have easily been burned somewhere else and his ashes returned to mess up the search dogs.

IMO
It would be unique idea for a perp to do that.
If somehow DNA was ever collected then with familiarar DNA techniques it could have really caused confusion to LE.

 

[Trident]

This thread is leading my mind down such horrific, frightening thoughtways that I almost feel we've made a major breakthrough into the abyss; whether that be good or bad is up to the individual. I know I've seen behind a curtain, whether true in this case or not.

 

[4senthia]

@this time I'm still hopeful there is no body in that water. Especially little Deorr's.
There are very strange things that happen each day. People even want to play games w/LE/FBI etc.
They think they have figured a way to confuse the situation so they go for it.
IMO it worked. Look @it this way: maybe someone did wait a long time for the exact right conditions to occur and then took Deorr.
Didn't have to be this child. Just a little one that was easy to grab.
I can't say if this totally confused these dogs or if they were the search dogs or cadaver dogs. I only know what the sheriff said. That it was found out that someone dumped cremains in that water and that it was "very disappointing".
Since I'm not ready to consider Deorr as dead I'm looking/reading what official info we have.
That statement from LE gave me pause to look @this from a peculiar angle.
Why would anyone or any cremation service dump those cremains in such a highly tense location w/so many searchers around?
They couldn't have simply stumbled in there without realizing what activity was going on.
These are just some thoughts I've had for a few days hoping against all odds that Deorr is alive.
jmoho

 

[4senthia]

Steleman you are probably correct.
But didn't the search continue for a while before the cremains were discovered? IMO even an elderly woman would've been stopped upon entry to an active search location.
IMO they wouldn't let anyone in or out without clearance in such a case.
So this person/s just toddled on down to a place that really no one else was camping at and saw all of the LE cars, SAR etc and dumped the ashes.
My parents are in their 90's and infirmed but even then my mom can still drive. She would not have been allowed entry to that active scene. No way.
jmho

 

[renarde]

I agree, I think this is what most likely happened.

I'm just wondering why they hadn't closed that road off in the first place. Had they done so, no way Granny would've been able to go take cremains to the reservoir in the first place.

The Cremains: Hmmmm, let's try to explain them:

Some old fella used to go fishin' there all the time.

He died.

His widow knows he asked to have his ashes spread at his favorite fishin' hole.

Early in the morning, her and a couple of the kids head out for the reservoir.

Strange....... lots of activity here this morning......oh well.....doesn't concern us.

Let's go up to the edge of the water, say a prayer, and pour granddad in.

"Hello officer, is there a problem ?"
-------------------------------------------

The end of this story would be when law enforcement explains to them that they are in the middle of a search area for a missing toddler, at which point they interview them and find out about grandad, who died last week.

LE takes their name and information and sends them on their way.....but the ashes were already put in the water........their memorial service will have to wait.

LE issues a statement saying "someone" was over their spreading cremains in the water, and it's messin' with the cadaver dogs. They didn't bother saying who this "someone" was, but they know, and chances are good she was about 80 years old and had blue hair. This is someone who was simply fulfilling a final wish, otherwise they would be in the back of a squad car in handcuffs.

Not everything has to be complicated.


IMO

 

[Roselvr]

Im with you.

Its just that I doubt LE will provide the details we need. Since its an active investigation they are most likely going to stay tight lipped about the who and specific circumstances.

JMO
I may be reading too much into what little we know but here is what I think happened about the cremains.
From reading just the little bits of info, it seems like someone came to LE and informed them about it. Then they most likely interviewed the person(s) that they were told about who confirmed to LE they did indeed dump cremains.

If it was just like a crematory business, then incident will likely go away but based on the incredible timing and coincidence I am leaning towards something more nefarious.

If the latter, then the person probably gave LE false information and LE has added it to the pile of circumstantial evidence they are collecting.

What I find really interesting is if this was nefarious then this would be the first time I ever heard about using cremains to throw off an investigation and it really is a unique idea for a perp to do. If that is the case, I wonder how the perp came up with this idea. Like has it ever been done before by a perp or not?

I was under the impression the park was closed while they were searching.

 

[4senthia]

I also believe the park was closed.
Not to be antagonistic towards the searchers but every now and then a perp almost immediately loops back around w/in a few hours and helps w/the search.
Such a "searcher" could have dumped the cremains.
:moo:

 

[steelman]

Steleman you are probably correct.
But didn't the search continue for a while before the cremains were discovered? IMO even an elderly woman would've been stopped upon entry to an active search location.
IMO they wouldn't let anyone in or out without clearance in such a case.
So this person/s just toddled on down to a place that really no one else was camping at and saw all of the LE cars, SAR etc and dumped the ashes.
My parents are in their 90's and infirmed but even then my mom can still drive. She would not have been allowed entry to that active scene. No way.
jmho

I have no idea where their command post may have been set up in relation to the reservoir, probably a good ways from it since they wouldn't want to trample evidence. I suspect if my scenario is correct, the ashes may have been brought in just prior to daybreak.....the best time to fish.

It is a public campground, so whether or not it was closed off completely to other campers at that particular time in the search is unknown by me. It's also possible they were searching out in the woods and in other areas by foot, and may have not had a large presence at the reservoir during that particular time, especially right around daybreak.

I still maintain that in the beginning of this thing, they had no idea that the search for a little toddler was going to stretch into 3, 4, 7, 8, 10 days. I'm sure as the days dragged on, access to that entire area become more and more limited to anybody except LE, but initially, I'm not sure they would have just shut everything down and booted everybody out.

I think they know exactly who put the ashes there, but by the time they learned about it, it was too late to stop it.

 

[Hatfield]

I agree, I think this is what most likely happened.

I'm just wondering why they hadn't closed that road off in the first place. Had they done so, no way Granny would've been able to go take cremains to the reservoir in the first place.

Which is what makes me think whoever dumped the cremains did it very late in the evening when searchers were not active. Like they snuck in there around 2 in the morning to do it.

Which further makes me think it was done for nefarious reasons and not a simple mistake by someone or a crematoriam business.

The coincidence of the timing is too great for me.

All JMO of course.

Oh, also....way back I had brought up that I think according to the article about it, it appeared to me it was a "Tip" by someone that allerted LE to this dumping of cremains. Which further makes me lean towards a nefarious activity. Because it appeared someone provided a TIP about it. At least that is the way I took it when reading the article.

 

[cinderella1982]

@this time I'm still hopeful there is no body in that water. Especially little Deorr's.
There are very strange things that happen each day. People even want to play games w/LE/FBI etc.
They think they have figured a way to confuse the situation so they go for it.
IMO it worked. Look @it this way: maybe someone did wait a long time for the exact right conditions to occur and then took Deorr.
Didn't have to be this child. Just a little one that was easy to grab.
I can't say if this totally confused these dogs or if they were the search dogs or cadaver dogs. I only know what the sheriff said. That it was found out that someone dumped cremains in that water and that it was "very disappointing".
Since I'm not ready to consider Deorr as dead I'm looking/reading what official info we have.
That statement from LE gave me pause to look @this from a peculiar angle.
Why would anyone or any cremation service dump those cremains in such a highly tense location w/so many searchers around?
They couldn't have simply stumbled in there without realizing what activity was going on.
These are just some thoughts I've had for a few days hoping against all odds that Deorr is alive.
jmoho

It could also have been organized. What if great-grandpa's friend wasn't a nice man? What if he knew another not nice man. What if he waited for an opportunity to hand him off? This whole story is just so bizarre.

 

[Hatfield]

I also believe the park was closed.
Not to be antagonistic towards the searchers but every now and then a perp almost immediately loops back around w/in a few hours and helps w/the search.
Such a "searcher" could have dumped the cremains.
:moo:

Or this idea which also is very possible.

 

[4senthia]

Well here's a snipped quote from this link:
http://www.hlntv.com/article/2015/07/17/deorr-kunz-missing-family-fear-abducted
"Police divers have been methodically searching every square inch of the reservoir for the little boy after cadaver dogs indicated there may be something there. However, Lemhi County Sheriff Lynn Bowerman tells HLN they just learned that someone had been dumping human cremains in the reservoir, and that very well could be the smell the dogs picked up on.

“It’s pretty disappointing. Someone was depositing human cremains up there while we’re searching the area. It contaminates the reservoir and the entire area,” says Bowerman."

~~The key to me is the "just learned" part~~
jmoho

 

[carbuff]

Could the cremains have possibly been Deorr's?

Thank you. I've been wondering this and didn't want to say it.

 

[4senthia]

Anyone here know specifically when the divers were first brought in? Was it day one?
And yes there could have been a hand off planned. When it comes to those that prey on their fellow humans, their disguises are ingenious at times.
At least a bear or a wolf shows its real face.
jmoho

 

[Inthedetails]

Thank you. I've been wondering this and didn't want to say it.

I don't know how that could possibly work. The boy was seen at the store the day he went missing.

It would mean the boy was at the store, killed, body burned at such a high heat and for enough time for the body and bones to be ashes, the ashes gathered into a container, the fire evidence cleaned up so well that LE didn't notice it (that we know of), 911 called, and ashes dumped in the water.

Seems like a lot of work to be done in a short amount of time.

I could be wrong, but I don't think the cremains are the little boy's.

 

[travelbug]

But if it were related to Deorr, the whole group would have to be involved, it would have to be premeditated. .. unless they always carried cremains around with them???

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Not necessarily, I'm just tossing this idea out as one possible scenario that wouldn't involve everyone. Entire family could have arrived at campsite and started to unpack. Deorr might have been tired and cranky from the drive. Dad says "why don't all of you set up camp and I'll take Deorr to the store with me, to pick up the stuff we need". Deorr falls asleep in truck on the drive back to camp. When they arrive dad decides to just let him keep sleeping in the truck. Dad gets out of truck and talks to G-GP and finds out mom is out exploring. Dad heads out to find mom, confident that the little guy is safe at the campsite. Time slips away from him and they're gone longer than he expected. They head back up to camp with the idea of Deorr waking up and seeing the minnows. When they arrive at the truck dad discovers Deorr has: a) passed away because of the heat and rolled up windows, b) climbed out of the truck and wandered off, c) fell while climbing out of the truck window and was fatally injured, d)been abducted. Dad is overwhelmed by grief and claims he told G-GP to watch Deorr so mom doesn't blame him, but he actually never mentioned it to G-GP. Everyone starts searching, but dad is in charge of checking out the truck. Mom calls 911, but dad "can't get a signal" and states he is heading up to higher ground. He disposes of the little guys body somewhere during his drive for a cell signal. Even if Deorr climbed out safely and ran off, dad has now woven a web of deceit. That puts him in the position of "controlling" the information provided to LE and the public so he doesn't have to admit his own culpability. jmoo

 

[desert-blue]

I don't know how that could possibly work. The boy was seen at the store the day he went missing.

Maybe I missed something, but has there actually been any confirmation that it really was dad and Deorr at the store? The only thing I've heard is from the interview and none of that made any sense. LE has not even acknowledged that the sighting even occurred as far I know?

 

[Wyle_E_Coyote]

So has it been determined that dogs wouldn't alert differently for cremains versus remains?

So the possible alleged killer kept a stash of someone's cremains and dumped them with remains to throw off the dogs? How could one ensure the dogs were unable differentiate? Or that they wouldn't find the body in the water? Why not dispose the body elsewhere?

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I believe from my research and what others have posted earlier in this thread that cadaver dogs would NOT alert to cremains.

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