FL FL - Austin Stephanos & Perry Cohen, both 14, Jupiter, 24 July 2015 - #1

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eileenhawkeye said:
If they can't find a plane and 200+ bodies, how are they going to find two bodies?
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The search areas are completely different you can't really compare the two searches. I almost have to agree that it's unlikely that they'll be found with the current there.
 
tick_tock said:
Maybe your "bluntness" can tell me how I'm being unrealistic, because you're assuming a lot here.
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No clues needed. Bad decision. 19 ft boat 2 stroke engine. 65 mph winds. Capsize. 12 days no information. Coast Guard ended search last week.

Drowning. No bodies will be recovered. Just like all the other people who drown in the ocean: its a tale as old as time and for as long as humans have attempted to be on the water.
 
So I realize that the divers did some further searching to discover the rods, cooler, and lifejackets missing. However, I do find it slightly odd they didn't upright the boat or tow it back for further analysis. I suppose it is likely because the search and rescue mission was a priority and there were no signs pointing to ill intentions.

I think bringing the boat in (or uprighting) could have provided at least 2 clues:

1. Fuel left on boat. This boat was found much further from where the accident happened. This could have given a clue to how far they traveled before the incident. It wouldn't provide a lot of answers, but it might would assist in search area.

2. GPS. Almost all boats have some sort of GPS system and most automatically do waypoint tracking that show where you have been. The system was sunk under water, but those units can be resiliant and possibly data could have been recovered. I'm not sure if I have heard of this being done before, but it is a possibility.

If I could add a third, it would be a check of storage compartments for a phone (if one was even on board) or other signs that a late struggle occurred (emergency) with dissarray or safety items scattered. The ocean could have squandered those signs, though.

I know boats are abandoned all of the time and it is no big deal unless it is presenting danger to other boaters or environment, but I wonder if the extra effort would have been worth it here since it was the only remnants to search and find clues.
 
I think the Coast Guard and experienced boaters in SF assumed they drowned but hoped/prayed they somehow got to their PFDs before they floated away. I think I read that you have a 37% chance of dying if your boat capsizes or swamps.

I also think the CG was at a complete loss as to what they might have on them; their search of the boat only turned up one PFD (there aren't a lot of places on that boat that could have kept other items from floating away once it capsized). The family couldn't even tell them how many PFDS were on the boat. Hell, it wasn't even equipped with a radio, the most basic of safety equipment after a PFD.

Sadly, the boys didn't stand much of a chance once they went out the inlet during a bad storm in a 19' boat with an open transom, single engine, no radio, no GPS, no EPIRB, no nothing. And the stepfather owns a sports fishing supply shop!

As for the fuel, it would have drained out from the upside down motor. And even if it didn't, you would have no way of knowing how much fuel was in the boat without knowing how much was in it before they gassed up.
 
I was surprised to learn the boat was left in the ocean. I can't think of one reason why this would be a good thing. I read early on it was to "mark the spot" which is unnecessary imo.

Maybe clues from the boat wouldn't lead to the boys but I think anything learned from the incident could help bring understanding and closure to a terrible tragedy.
 
Did anyone of you ever see the snapchat pic of one of the boys saying something about the weather? Was it real?
 
BayouBelle_LA said:
I was surprised to learn the boat was left in the ocean. I can't think of one reason why this would be a good thing. I read early on it was to "mark the spot" which is unnecessary imo.

Maybe clues from the boat wouldn't lead to the boys but I think anything learned from the incident could help bring understanding and closure to a terrible tragedy.
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reason being it would have took manpower/equipment away from the search and that was the number one priority at the time.
 
I'm not so sure the gas would leak out with the boat capsized. IF the boat is recovered, IF the gas didn't leak out, IF they topped off tank, IF there's quite a bit gas still in the tank then MAYBE you could determine the gallons per hour, guess at the average speed, plot a course between Jupiter and the Bahamas and guess where the engine stopped along that line. I guess it would give the families an imagined spot to hold a memorial service out at sea. But if they used that info to think they could search for missing items on the bottom it would not be a good thing.

The only other things I can think of that MIGHT be able to be determined from examining the boat is whether the engine was running when it capsized by the water sucked into the cylinders. Water might be in there anyway. The other thing is whether they hit something and the shear pin on prop broke.

None of these things really matter. There's nothing that needs to be found out to help others avoid the same fate. Everything was already known beforehand that would have made this avoidable but for whatever reason many involved chose to ignore those things.
 
BayouBelle_LA said:
I was surprised to learn the boat was left in the ocean. I can't think of one reason why this would be a good thing. I read early on it was to "mark the spot" which is unnecessary imo.

Maybe clues from the boat wouldn't lead to the boys but I think anything learned from the incident could help bring understanding and closure to a terrible tragedy.
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I guess this is where the difference of opinion lies: as others have said before, the most crucial and vital areas of understanding are patently obvious: do not traverse a dangerous inlet in a small boat when a storm is approaching and have at least a radio and basic safety equipment in your boat in all conditions.

These are the only areas of "understanding" that have any real value.

What the boys were intending, how much fuel they may have expended, where exactly they drowned...I doubt these could be determined with certainty...when the boat was found more than 48 hours after the "event" occurred. These details aren't even particularly pertinent IMO to a recovery operation for the bodies....this is the open sea! Currents, tides, marine life all add unknown variables. I just dont know what "clues" from that boat have any REAL value in this particular case.

And personally, I cannot even see how such "clues" could provide closure. One might speculate that a certain amount of gas meant they were indeed heading for the Bahamas. But it would be a guess, only speculation, and no definitive assessment could close the debate of what really happened for the families. They were seen by a witness heading out to sea as larger boats with experienced captains headed IN...to avoid the approaching storm. THAT is just about the last detail that can ever be close to confirmation.

Any so-called "clues" could only provide further speculation and rumor ...not proof. No one is going to be able to examine an overturned boat and say..."Without a doubt, this boat capsized at this precise location as the boys were trying to turn back, wearing their life jackets, etc etc."

There's no comfort or closure to be found from that boat and its "clues."

The parents know they had wonderful sons, who led happy though short lives and died doing something they loved. Others will take away valuable safety lessons from their loss.

That's where the families comfort and closure lies IMO.
 
Koa said:
I'm not so sure the gas would leak out with the boat capsized. IF the boat is recovered, IF the gas didn't leak out, IF they topped off tank, IF there's quite a bit gas still in the tank then MAYBE you could determine the gallons per hour, guess at the average speed, plot a course between Jupiter and the Bahamas and guess where the engine stopped along that line. I guess it would give the families an imagined spot to hold a memorial service out at sea. But if they used that info to think they could search for missing items on the bottom it would not be a good thing.

The only other things I can think of that MIGHT be able to be determined from examining the boat is whether the engine was running when it capsized by the water sucked into the cylinders. Water might be in there anyway. The other thing is whether they hit something and the shear pin on prop broke.

None of these things really matter. There's nothing that needs to be found out to help others avoid the same fate. Everything was already known beforehand that would have made this not happen, but for whatever reason many chose to ignore.
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Hate to say this, but as a volunteer park ranger I run in to this all the time. Someone comes in to our park, we have a ranger at the gate of the parking area reminding them of what conditions that day (heat, high winds, cold, etc) would be of particular danger. We have printed signs in the restrooms reminding them to have proper gear, water, etc. and have wooden signs outside reminding people of the same. We even maintain a small store selling supplies at street prices or even below.

People that like adventure often push their limits (myself included). But sometimes people think they are bulletproof :(
 
SeaSpur said:
So I realize that the divers did some further searching to discover the rods, cooler, and lifejackets missing. However, I do find it slightly odd they didn't upright the boat or tow it back for further analysis. I suppose it is likely because the search and rescue mission was a priority and there were no signs pointing to ill intentions.

I think bringing the boat in (or uprighting) could have provided at least 2 clues:

1. Fuel left on boat. This boat was found much further from where the accident happened. This could have given a clue to how far they traveled before the incident. It wouldn't provide a lot of answers, but it might would assist in search area.

2. GPS. Almost all boats have some sort of GPS system and most automatically do waypoint tracking that show where you have been. The system was sunk under water, but those units can be resiliant and possibly data could have been recovered. I'm not sure if I have heard of this being done before, but it is a possibility.

If I could add a third, it would be a check of storage compartments for a phone (if one was even on board) or other signs that a late struggle occurred (emergency) with dissarray or safety items scattered. The ocean could have squandered those signs, though.

I know boats are abandoned all of the time and it is no big deal unless it is presenting danger to other boaters or environment, but I wonder if the extra effort would have been worth it here since it was the only remnants to search and find clues.
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JMO
I have to agree and I had previously mentioned that if it were up to me I would have arranged to have the boat towed to shore for further inspection.

You dont know what you may find until you look.

It most likely would not have helped much but you never know and it should have been towed IMO. Everything we read indicates it would have been up to the family to hire a boat tow company in the area to get it towed. It would not have taken away from efforts in the search because the boat tow company is not involved in the search.

You just never know what they could have found. For example if they found the other life vests in a compartment that was closed and the divers missed it. Then you would be much more likely to validly assume they are drowned and it would have at least provided more realism to not getting your hopes up too much.

Or they may have found the reason the engine died and could maybe help others in a storm to prevent that from happening.

But its too late now and not sure why it wasnt done. Someone close to the family should have made sure that was addressed since they had enough to deal with at the time.

Also, I agree with others about continuing the search at this point is only to recover the bodies but I am not sure it would be wise either at this point.

The ocean is much different than a body being in a lake. Everyone needs to understand that most sea creatures and fish in the ocean have teeth. Even the smaller fish of the sea typically have sharp teeth from what I remember. This is much different than a lake.

I am not even sure if there will be much left after so many days has passed. I am not sure if any studies have ever been done on what is the expected number of days to not be able to retrieve anything anymore.
 
I haven't commented here in a long time. In fact I haven't even frequented this forum in a long time because it's so depressing as far as missing children go. I'm sure you all know what I'm talking about. But I have been following this story from the beginning, and the other day decided to come here and read the thread and all of your thoughts on it.

In the first few days I thought it was very possible these boys did make flotation devices out of the life jackets, seat cushion, maybe the cooler and engine cover. Also thought it was very possible they made it to one of the islands near the Bahamas and were just waiting for rescue. I do believe they were headed to the Bahamas. I don't believe it was the first time they left the ICW. Both of the boys' instagrams prove this was not the first time they took the boat out on the ocean when they were probably supposed to stay in the ICW.

After the first week, right before the CG called off the search, I figured these boys were probably deceased. I don't think they had enough time to make it anywhere near the Bahamas. I think they stayed in the ICW for a bit then headed out offshore, not paying attention to the storm that was coming, and made the worst decision of their lives. The fact that they had no GPS or PLB, no ditch bag... I highly doubt they even had time to think to make flotation devices. Those waves were too rough out there for that boat that day! I think they took on water, stalled, and while they were attempting to get the motor running the boat capsized and possibly injured them both, maybe even fatally. IF they did manage to grab something to stay afloat they would have tired out, become dehydrated, or succumbed to sharks long before the CG called the search off.

The parents think these boys were more prepared than they really were. I don't fault them for that. We all have blind faith in our children and their abilities. We want to believe they know what their doing or that they can do anything. I don't fault them for continuing to search and holding out hope of finding something. I'm not sure I'd give up so quickly either were it my child. But I don't think they'll find the boys' alive, nor do I think they'll find their bodies. And I think deep down they know this. They just haven't yet given in to coming to terms with it. I hope they soon will and I hope that they can grieve healthily. I also hope they can use their grief, and what might be left of any funds they've raised, to help educate others in the community about how they can learn from this and prepare their own children to be more safe when going out on the ocean.
 
Everyone's an expert, in their own mind. Monday morning quarterbacking is alive and well. All the shouldas isn't going to save the 2 teens; they are gone.

Hopefully the tragedy of this case will serve to remind people to always wear a life vest when in the water and if sailing or boating, invest in and wear a personal GPS device, which exists for just such purposes. Technology can help save your life and get you rescued and it's a worthwhile investment.
 
Hiandmighty said:
No clues needed. Bad decision. 19 ft boat 2 stroke engine. 65 mph winds. Capsize. 12 days no information. Coast Guard ended search last week.
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<above snipped and bolded by me>

Just wanted to clarify that the engine was a 4 stroke engine. I've seen it reported many times in news links and on the flyers that are circulating that the engine was 4 stroke, but see many comments here, not just the one above, saying it was 2 stroke.

However, I'm not sure that would make much of a difference given the situation. The reality is that boat should have never been out on the ocean in a storm, especially being captained by a child. Quite honestly, I personally would have never gotten into that boat to go offshore, in that area anyways considering the gulf stream so close to shore, even if Sig Hansen was captaining that boat! JMO

Korniloff said the boys had a floatable cooler in the boat, and that the cover of the four-stroke Yamaha engine was missing when the vessel was found.
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/palm-beach/fl-teen-boaters-folo-20150726-story.html#page=1
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KristiA said:
http://m.wpbf.com/news/missing-boys...F 25 News&utm_medium=FBPAGE&utm_source=Social


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Thanks.
From your link:


A Sarasota helicopter company found two life jackets Tuesday near a sandbar off Savannah, Georgia.
Heli Aviation posted a picture on its Facebook page and said it was working to confirm a possible connection with the disappearance of Perry Cohen and Austin Stephanos.
There is no confirmation of the owners of the life jackets. Due to reports of the life jackets being found, a group called DEEMI out of Maine is sending a dog search team to coastal Georgia to aid in the search.
http://m.wpbf.com/news/missing-boys...F 25 News&utm_medium=FBPAGE&utm_source=Social
 
IndianSummer said:
From your link:


A Sarasota helicopter company found two life jackets Tuesday near a sandbar off Savannah, Georgia.
Heli Aviation posted a picture on its Facebook page and said it was working to confirm a possible connection with the disappearance of Perry Cohen and Austin Stephanos.
There is no confirmation of the owners of the life jackets. Due to reports of the life jackets being found, a group called DEEMI out of Maine is sending a dog search team to coastal Georgia to aid in the search.
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Thanks for summing it up, IndianSummer. I was too lazy to do it before. [emoji5]&#65039;

I want to add that the company that found the life vests in question (Heli Aviation) has pulled out of the search per their fb page.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
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