ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #12

[Jamaica Me Crazy]

Where is the sketch of the creep in the jeep?!

 

[giagreen]

Many mention that the PI, Frank Vilt, has seemingly faded into obscurity.

I think maybe many of us are kind of expecting him to be the "spokesperson" for the family, simply because he's done a couple interviews. But the nature of a PI is to go undercover. Behind the scenes, quietly checking out leads. AFAIK anyway.

Still though...if an abduction where are the flyers and why hasn't a match been lit under the media? The only way I can understand that is if there is a suspected abductor he's tracking, because an unknown abductor would certainly warrant a zillion flyers (fliers?) and media outcry.

I don't think its an abduction. I personally think the parents are slowly coming to realize this as well. But even if I did and they still do I'm not surprised by the little media attention. All you can do is tell the story and give the news the posters and pray to god they share the info. But sadly time and time again missing kids and their posters fade away from the news.

 

[giagreen]

I thought that normally a body in water would float to the top in a short amount of time unless it were weighted down. Maybe in the creek a small body could get caught in debris or a hole but I can't understand how, if he were in the reservoir, his body wouldn't have surfaced within a week or so.

It depends on how cold the water is. If its cold enough it won't rise to the top. But I doubt in Idaho in July the water would be that cold.

 

[bessie]

The reservoir also concerns me, maybe more so than the creek. I remember quite early in the conversation someone saying that the reservoir was extremely silty. Would they have found him if he'd sunk into the silt at the bottom of the reservoir? I just have my doubts.

From an article about a drowning victim. Different body of water, posted just as an example.

"I think he got stuck in that silt. I know it's thick. I have lived here all my life and there is about 8 feet of water and silt there. You go down and try to push up, but you get stuck, you're not coming out of there."

http://www.pottsmerc.com/general-ne...victim-just-started-senior-year-at-avon-grove

 

[neesaki]

Leopards take their prey into trees. Mountain lions eat on the ground and bury their kill, as other posters have previously mentioned. They do not drag deer or anything else into trees. https://outdoornebraska.ne.gov/wild...dfs/Mountain Lions in Nebraska PowerPoint.pdf

I was seriously wondering about that but haven't had a chance to research it yet. Thanks pepe.

 

[pepelepolecat]

I thought that normally a body in water would float to the top in a short amount of time unless it were weighted down. Maybe in the creek a small body could get caught in debris or a hole but I can't understand how, if he were in the reservoir, his body wouldn't have surfaced within a week or so.

This is merely personal experience, but I once got stuck in a really mucky creek with a lot of silty stuff at the bottom, sank in all the way to my knees and had to have two grown men pull me out (and still lost my shoes!). It was absolutely terrifying at the time. If the reservoir's bottom was anything like that creek's bottom, I have more than a few doubts that his little body would surface any time soon and maybe not at all.

 

[scmom]

I've been in pluff mud before gathering oysters. I imagine it's similar.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

This is sort of OT but still may be relevant:

I found this article about how Nancy Grace chooses what cases to feature on her show. Her producers use a tool/algorithm that shows them what cases are being talked about the most on social media. They "identify topics and individual Facebook posts that are performing better than average for a page or individual". They are looking for the stories getting a large amount of shares, likes, and comments. And the tool is not static; a post one day about a case could be shared thousands of times, a week later, maybe there is not much going on, so posts don't get as many shares.

On the Deorr Kunz page, the last post is on August 10, nothing from that page is even going to register on this tool. For East Idaho News, I found a post where they said Deorr had been missing 60 days. It had 69 shares and 71 likes. Looking at other posts on their page, it's a bit higher than the normal post, but not an impressive amount. I guarantee you that there were other true-crime stories getting higher numbers of likes and shares on that same day. I've seen posts about someone going missing getting thousands of shares.

So if anyone is wondering why the parents are not on NG or talking to other national media outlets (I doubt NG is the only one who uses a tool like this) if they think their son was abducted, they have zero chance of getting on there. You cannot just ask or offer to talk; they are looking for the case that is going to bring them ratings, they want ones that are showing a high interest on social media during that very day. The parents should definitely be talking to the local media more, and spreading word of the case more on social media. But you cannot control how many people "share" a story about your child especially when not much is going on.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/charliewarz...viral-milk-carton-kids-of-facebook#.ykwQ1XeRj

 

[scmom]

How far from the bank or shore could Deorr have gotten before he, theoretically, sank to the bottom and into the silt?

 

[ClaireNC]

This is merely personal experience, but I once got stuck in a really mucky creek with a lot of silty stuff at the bottom, sank in all the way to my knees and had to have two grown men pull me out (and still lost my shoes!). It was absolutely terrifying at the time. If the reservoir's bottom was anything like that creek's bottom, I have more than a few doubts that his little body would surface any time soon and maybe not at all.

This is an interesting theory, though I think it is highly unlikely. I don't think a 2 year old would be heavy enough to get sucked into the mud. The water would add buoyancy and reduce his weight as he took steps into the water. Has there ever been a case where a missing child was found to be stuck in mud at the bottom of a lake?

 

[scmom]

It is interesting. And I'm not trying to pooh-pooh anyone's theory. Just trying to imagine how far he could possibly have walked into the water.

 

[MzOpinion8d]

I think 20 min. About hour roundtrip. But that's just me following my own timeline from what I've seen.
I think it is little things like this that can cause such confusion.

Early on, the trip was described as 40 min one way. It's a short distance but a very bumpy road. Google maps seemed to confirm the approx time, as did Nate Eaton from East Idaho News in a video report.

Of course, then many posters related stories of how they grew up on roads like that and drove regular, non 4 wheel drive cars over all the bumps really fast because that was the better way to get across them, and claimed no way the trip was 40 minutes one way. So...nobody really knows apparently.

 

[ClaireNC]

Early on, the trip was described as 40 min one way. It's a short distance but a very bumpy road. Google maps seemed to confirm the approx time, as did Nate Eaton from East Idaho News in a video report.

Of course, then many posters related stories of how they grew up on roads like that and drove regular, non 4 wheel drive cars over all the bumps really fast because that was the better way to get across them, and claimed no way the trip was 40 minutes one way. So...nobody really knows apparently.

The 40 minute estimate came from Google maps and locals have said it takes 20 minutes. For estimating purposes for a timeline it is pretty safe to split the difference and say it takes about 30 minutes.

 

[bessie]

This is an interesting theory, though I think it is highly unlikely. I don't think a 2 year old would be heavy enough to get sucked into the mud. The water would add buoyancy and reduce his weight as he took steps into the water. Has there ever been a case where a missing child was found to be stuck in mud at the bottom of a lake?

Eventually, a drowned body will sink.

The human body weighs slightly more than fresh water. Consequently, when individuals become unconscious, they sink—regardless of fat level, which slightly increases buoyancy. Generally, a drowning victim will reach the bottom of a body of water in spite of the depth, unless it meets some obstruction on the way down.

https://www2.fbi.gov/publications/leb/2006/feb2006/feb2006leb.htm

 

[ClaireNC]

Eventually, a drowned body will sink.

The human body weighs slightly more than fresh water. Consequently, when individuals become unconscious, they sink—regardless of fat level, which slightly increases buoyancy. Generally, a drowning victim will reach the bottom of a body of water in spite of the depth, unless it meets some obstruction on the way down.

https://www2.fbi.gov/publications/leb/2006/feb2006/feb2006leb.htm

Thanks Besse, But would an unconscious toddler be heavy enough to actually get sucked into the mud? I was thinking more along the lines of him walking into the water and getting stuck in mud when I made my post. I'm not being argumentative, just very interested in this possibility.

 

[pepelepolecat]

This is an interesting theory, though I think it is highly unlikely. I don't think a 2 year old would be heavy enough to get sucked into the mud. The water would add buoyancy and reduce his weight as he took steps into the water. Has there ever been a case where a missing child was found to be stuck in mud at the bottom of a lake?

Well, it's a little different from bog bodies, but children and even dogs have been found in bogs. I'd think that a child could certainly get stuck in the silt, settling into the mud over time.

If he were weighted down (if it were due to foul play rather than an accident), it'd be even easier for him to sink into the mud.

I don't know that he IS in the reservoir or creek, but those two seem to be the among the most likely places for him, imo, if he wandered off and maybe if he were hurt by person/s unknown.

 

[giagreen]

Early on, the trip was described as 40 min one way. It's a short distance but a very bumpy road. Google maps seemed to confirm the approx time, as did Nate Eaton from East Idaho News in a video report.

Of course, then many posters related stories of how they grew up on roads like that and drove regular, non 4 wheel drive cars over all the bumps really fast because that was the better way to get across them, and claimed no way the trip was 40 minutes one way. So...nobody really knows apparently.

Everything I've read says 20min one way.

"The next morning, DeOrr’s parents said they took their son to a store about 20 minutes from the campsite."

http://www.eastidahonews.com/2015/08/lemhi-sheriff-opens-up-about-deorr-kunz-case/

 

[desert-blue]

The search is going back to the four POI's - it's not focusing on animal attack, abduction, or the water. Lie detector results have not been revealed and no one has been cleared. The sheriff made a point of announcing to the world that it's questionable whether Deorr was even at the store (and in doing so has debunked the "rumor" of a clerk seeing DK and a dirty, bawling Deorr). This is the same sheriff whose deputy asked people to be nice on SM a few months ago. Yet they are now adding fuel to the fire. It's not hard to connect the dots and see where this is going. MOO.

 

[giagreen]

The search is going back to the four POI's - it's not focusing on animal attack, abduction, or the water. Lie detector results have not been revealed and no one has been cleared. The sheriff made a point of announcing to the world that it's questionable whether Deorr was even at the store (and in doing so has debunked the "rumor" of a clerk seeing DK and a dirty, bawling Deorr). This is the same sheriff whose deputy asked people to be nice on SM a few months ago. Yet they are now adding fuel to the fire. It's not hard to connect the dots and see where this is going. MOO.

That's not true. They are taking samples of scat from the area. If they were so sure the parents were involved would they be doing that?

 

[wondering25]

Everything I've read says 20min one way.

"The next morning, DeOrr’s parents said they took their son to a store about 20 minutes from the campsite."

http://www.eastidahonews.com/2015/08/lemhi-sheriff-opens-up-about-deorr-kunz-case/

Bowerman said in the latest news clip that they left 1030/11 in the morning to go to the store. DK said they didnt leave the campsite after 1pm. If we take 11 in the morning.. add 20 minutes each way that is 40 mins and what 20 minutes in the store? that is an hour.. 11-1120.. to store..20 minutes in store.. 1140..20 minutes to drive back ..1200 noon.. where did an hour go between 12 and 1 when they hadnt left the campsite after 1pm?? MOO