ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #12

[neesaki]

Hey im sorry if someone has allready mentioned this but in this case animals really are a option for what could have happen and so i have been wondering since it's prolly not a normal thing to do but do you think the searchers were advised that they need to also be scanning the trees .When a mountian lion makes a kill they will often take it up into the trees and try to get it lodged between the branches so that it can get it stuck so it wont fall , They do it with deer so there would be no problem getting a little boy up there and i know for a fact this is how they kill and eat . So I was just wondering if the searchers were advised that they had to be scanning up into the trees . I can see them being so focused on the ground that anything above would go un noticed ...

Well, that's very interesting to learn, Cougars take their prey up into the trees? I had been going on the assumption that they buried them with leaves, twigs, dirt, whatever was at hand.
My question has been, how far will they carry the prey, if there are, such as in this situation, people in the area that they consider a threat. Would they take them farther outside the normal range? That said, I personally question whether LE has given enough credence to the wildlife predator scenario, UNLESS, they have evidence of something else that they still have not disclosed. Which is quite possible, IMO. And thanks, CanManEh for this information.

 

[Little Ol Me]

Ha! Thanks for bringing this up! So I'm not crazy for thinking this exact thing. I was watching a video of an Idaho mountain lion up in a tree and was thinking what the odds could be that's why they searched the egals nest. And maybe were not going just for the nests either.

I was watching a documentary on mountain lions and was surprised to learn how tricky they are to trace. They will actually step in other animals foot prints to avoid being tracked. As well as making sure they step in their own so they don't leave tracks. Its neat. Beautiful animals....wow! But they live to kill.

Thank you giagreen for the info & links on mountain lions.
I'm trying to keep an open mind and consider all things.

 

[giagreen]

Well, that's very interesting to learn, Cougars take their prey up into the trees? I had been going on the assumption that they buried them with leaves, twigs, dirt, whatever was at hand.
My question has been, how far will they carry the prey, if there are, such as in this situation, people in the area that they consider a threat. Would they take them farther outside the normal range? That said, I personally question whether LE has given enough credence to the wildlife predator scenario, UNLESS, they have evidence of something else that they still have not disclosed. Which is quite possible, IMO. And thanks, CanManEh for this information.

They do bury their kills when there is anything left over. They will go back to eat it later. I haven't found a clear answer on how far they will travel to eat there kill once they get it. I know a lot of that depends on if its a female that needs to feed her cubs and how far they had to travel to find a kill. I've been wondering the same thing. I really wanna know. I'll find the answer and let you know.

 

[TeaTime]

There is no reason that either of them could have which would make them cover up an accidental death and put themselves and their families through this torture. It makes no sense that there was an accidental death on the camping trip and then these 2 decide to hide the body in the wilderness, make up a 'missing' story and the 2 other campers go along with it too.

I rule out accidental death and cover-up.

My humble opinion, yours may differ.

 

[gliving]

Thank you giagreen for the info & links on mountain lions.
I'm trying to keep an open mind and consider all things.

I like to keep an open mind too. I've read posts about mountain lions and their feeding habits until my eyes were bleeding; ad nauseam. MOO

Right now I'm more perplexed by the latest video of Bowerman saying he can't actually place Deorr at the store on Friday. So concerning.

 

[Dee10]

Search and rescue, horseback riders, and divers began surveying a 3-mile radius of the campground.


"Then later that evening we had a helicopter up with a FLIR, which is a heat seeking source. They identified every animal that was in the region and if that child was in the that 3-mile radius, we would have found him," said Bowerman. http://m.localnews8.com/news/3-months-still-no-sig

http://m.localnews8.com/news/3-mont...=social&utm_source=facebook_KIFI_Local_News_8

 

[Rayemonde]

I think Bowerman tends to hyperbolize. How on earth would you know if you'd identified every animal within a 3 mile radius? and of course if DeOrr had already passed away he would be missed by this technology. It's possible he wandered off and died naturally, eg by drowning, and then an animal carried him away later.

I don't think a body has to be in a car for long for dogs to pick up on the smell. And if it was a hot car death - well, from other cases I've read about you wouldn't even need a dog to smell death in the car

 

[Rayemonde]

I wonder why she sheriff told the press about the shop, and about the plan to re-interview everyone. Why announce that to the public? Is he trying to put pressure on some one? Or lull someone into a false sense of security?

 

[kammiemc]

I wonder why she sheriff told the press about the shop, and about the plan to re-interview everyone. Why announce that to the public? Is he trying to put pressure on some one? Or lull someone into a false sense of security?

What's the shop? It sounds interesting! (Or it was like one of my typos!)

 

[kammiemc]

I think Bowerman tends to hyperbolize. How on earth would you know if you'd identified every animal within a 3 mile radius? and of course if DeOrr had already passed away he would be missed by this technology. It's possible he wandered off and died naturally, eg by drowning, and then an animal carried him away later.

I don't think a body has to be in a car for long for dogs to pick up on the smell. And if it was a hot car death - well, from other cases I've read about you wouldn't even need a dog to smell death in the car

Do you know how long? Minutes? An hour? Several hours? A day?

 

[katydid23]

What's the shop? It sounds interesting! (Or it was like one of my typos!)

I think he means about the 'mystery' of the shopkeeper and if anyone ever saw the family buying fries or not.

 

[kammiemc]

I think he means about the 'mystery' of the shopkeeper and if anyone ever saw the family buying fries or not.

Well, it might show up on their receipt...maybe (fries could fall under "food" or "deli" or something else ambiguous). The sheriff did say that he was able to connect items on the receipt with items the couple had. Fries might not be one of those items he could prove, unless they had the container or something.

 

[ILOKAL]

I think Bowerman tends to hyperbolize. How on earth would you know if you'd identified every animal within a 3 mile radius? and of course if DeOrr had already passed away he would be missed by this technology. It's possible he wandered off and died naturally, eg by drowning, and then an animal carried him away later.

I don't think a body has to be in a car for long for dogs to pick up on the smell. And if it was a hot car death - well, from other cases I've read about you wouldn't even need a dog to smell death in the car

I agree with you about Bowerman. Tell me more about this technology and already dead bodies, please.

 

[Rayemonde]

[SUB][/SUB]

What's the shop? It sounds interesting! (Or it was like one of my typos!)

Yeah, sorry, I meant the question of whether DeOrr was actually ever at the shop/ store or not. Why would Bowerman tell the press that he couldn't confirm that DeOrr was ever at the store, unless he wanted the public to doubt the parents' version of events? Does he think that casting doubt on the parents will pressure them into telling the truth? I can't think of why else he would tell the press that he can't confirm DeOrr was ever at the store with his parents.

 

[wondering25]

There is no reason that either of them could have which would make them cover up an accidental death and put themselves and their families through this torture. It makes no sense that there was an accidental death on the camping trip and then these 2 decide to hide the body in the wilderness, make up a 'missing' story and the 2 other campers go along with it too.

I rule out accidental death and cover-up.

My humble opinion, yours may differ.

TeaTime, We dont know WHAT GGP and IR have said. We have never heard one word from GGP's mouth. If they saw Deorr in the morning but didnt see Deorr when the family returned from the store because IR was fishing for example and GGP was in the camper..or is a poor historian and doesnt know what he saw or when.. then we only have the words of the parents. GGP and IR may not be "going along" with anything. They may have honestly not seen the baby when the parents returned from the store. and that may mean something or nothing, JMO I agree that it makes little sense to us that if something accidental happened, the parents would cover it up. But people do strange thing in a panic.. MOO. The fact that the sheriff is re-interviewiung the 4 POI, IMO only, tells me he thinks the answer will be found there. If he thought the baby was in the woods, he would have encouraged more organized searches, no? He doesnt think it was an abduction.. but so much time has passed that i guess we can never be sure if someone DID slip into the campground undetected..IMO

Anything i write is just my opinion

 

[bessie]

Do you know how long? Minutes? An hour? Several hours? A day?

I once wrote a very detailed post on this topic, but I can't put my hands on it at the moment. This should answer the question.

http://www.pawsoflife.org/Library/HRD/Oesterhelweg 1998.pd

Using Hamburg police dogs, tests were conducted with two bodies deceased for less than two hours. The deceased died in hospital and their bodies wrapped in clean blankets before exposure to the carpet squares. One body was in contact with carpet squares for 2 minutes, the other for 10 minutes. In a series of searches using the contaminated squares and control, non-contaminated squares, the dogs had great success detecting the contaminated squares even after 35 days and 65 days respectively. Interesting read!

 

[bessie]

Screen shots of current newspaper articles are not allowed.

 

[Jamaica Me Crazy]

TeaTime, We dont know WHAT GGP and IR have said. We have never heard one word from GGP's mouth. If they saw Deorr in the morning but didnt see Deorr when the family returned from the store because IR was fishing for example and GGP was in the camper..or is a poor historian and doesnt know what he saw or when.. then we only have the words of the parents. GGP and IR may not be "going along" with anything. They may have honestly not seen the baby when the parents returned from the store. and that may mean something or nothing, JMO I agree that it makes little sense to us that if something accidental happened, the parents would cover it up. But people do strange thing in a panic.. MOO. The fact that the sheriff is re-interviewiung the 4 POI, IMO only, tells me he thinks the answer will be found there. If he thought the baby was in the woods, he would have encouraged more organized searches, no? He doesnt think it was an abduction.. but so much time has passed that i guess we can never be sure if someone DID slip into the campground undetected..IMO

Anything i write is just my opinion

Yes, people do strange things in panic. I am not accusing THESE parents, but accidents can result from negligence, and some negligence is deemed criminal negligence. Criminal negligence = jail time.

 

[wondering25]

Yes, people do strange things in panic. I am not accusing THESE parents, but accidents can result from negligence, and some negligence is deemed criminal negligence. Criminal negligence = jail time.

I think the parents seem sad and miserable.. at least in the one interview and then at the quick view we had of them at the vigil. I am not blaming them AT ALL.. but how can one interpret yet another interview with the POI by the sheriff? Original interview, at least one by the FBI (right? that would only make sense) and now another one? Cars and homes were searched and apparently didnt yield anything useful? Sheriff is going "back to square one". It sounds more like he is going round and round. JMO The PI seems to be MIA, and considering we really can never know if there was someone, undetected, who slipped into the campground and snatched the baby OR if there was some kind of accident and someone panicked, where else is there to look?

It seems to me the 2 hours or whatever it took for LE to arrive at the campground were critical and time lost. (not LE's fault)..but nothing was secured during that time and perhaps treating this as a wandering lost boy exclusively instead of looking at all the angles initially(abduction, foul play, for example) was a huge error by LE. i dunno. MOO

Anything i write is just my opinion.

 

[bessie]

Is there a timeline for Deorr?

No, not an updated one. The timeline posted in July was based mostly on conjecture, and did not take into account statements from the sheriff's interview. I've removed it.

"Thursday evening just right around dark time they arrived, set up camp and then Friday morning, somewhere around 10:30 or 11 is when they went to Leadore," Bowerman said.

http://m.localnews8.com/news/3-mont...=social&utm_source=facebook_KIFI_Local_News_8