Gerard Baden Clay's murder appeal
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I am coming to accept the findings have been formed according to 'Legal guidelines'. One would think that from the evidence during the Trial, if he could be found guilty of Manslaughter, then he could be found guilty of Murder ........ scratches and lies together with strong circumstantial. Missing is evidence such as finger prints, security camera evidence, admission, his shoes with mud from the creek, witnesses to the events. Circumstantial evidence is strong enough to uphold Manslaughter ..... but not Murder. JMO
possumheart
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However the absence of Allison in his life was the logical answer to his debt and infidelity problems, which to many constitutes enough of a motive. His world was a ticking time bomb. Nothing can convince me otherwise.
With respect, I think you are misinterpreting my post to a degree.
Yes, criminal appeals are commonly heard in the HCA. More often than not the applicant is the accused, but Crown initiated appeals are also reasonably common.
The Crown has no right of appeal if a jury has acquitted a defendant, however there is an avenue of appeal (very rarely exercised) if a conviction is overturned by an appellate court, as is the case here
Having said that, the vast majority of Crown appeals deal with the inadequacy of sentence as opposed to questions of law and so on. I've gone back 10 years and have found only 4 instances where the HCA granted leave on a Crown appeal on a matter of law (in relation to appellate court acquittal).
Further to that, to the best of my knowledge, there has NEVER been an occasion where special leave has been granted where a verdict was overturned (or downgraded in this particular case) on the basis of an appellate court ruling that the verdict was unreasonable given the evidence.
On top of this is the further complication that the QCA did not acquit Gerard, the charge was only amended to the lesser charge of manslaughter. I will freely admit to not knowing if the Crown even has a statutory right to appeal in this scenario as it wasn't an outright acquittal. This is a rare case and I'd have to do some research before knowing if this is even a legal option to the A-G.
Nevertheless, in 10 years there have been only 4 case where the HCA has overruled an appellate court ruling of acquittal and all have related to very complex questions of law and/or infrequently used or new statute (slavery and terrorism being responsible for 2 of these appeals). And as I said earlier, I'm not aware of there ever being a case where the HCA has overruled an appellate court's judgement in regards to an unsafe or unsatisfactory verdict.
So leave to appeal being allowed would be totally unprecedented in Australia legal history (again, to the best of my knowledge) and it's inconceivable to think that this would be the case given that the judgement was in line with the opinion of most legal academics.
I guess it's like saying that man will land on Mars next month. In absolute terms I cannot completely refute this but the chances are so astronomically remote as to render the argument moot.
Absolutely true, and I believe too that it was a solution, which he attempted to pull off ...... Murder not Manslaughter, and I am sure Justice Byrne and the Jury could see that ...... those Appeal Court Judges probably thought that too, but weren't there during the Trial and too distant to absorb all of the evidence, so were in a position to make their finding only based on words. JMO
possumheart
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Which leads me completely dispirited by a process which appears to amount to no more than pompous posturing. IMO
possumheart
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JCB, thank you for the explanation (#384).
Is it common for appellate courts to rule that the verdict was unreasonable given the evidence, while maintaining that the judge did not err?
If a verdict of murder was necessarily unreasonable, why didn't the trial judge remove it from the jury? Or why is the Court of Appeal not saying--as far as I can make out--that the judge erred in leaving it to the jury?
Is it common for appellate courts to rule that the verdict was unreasonable given the evidence, while maintaining that the judge did not err?
If a verdict of murder was necessarily unreasonable, why didn't the trial judge remove it from the jury? Or why is the Court of Appeal not saying--as far as I can make out--that the judge erred in leaving it to the jury?
possumheart
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Gerard Baden-Clay and the High Bar for Prosecution
There is a well-written explanation of yesterday's ruling here. Well worth a read. http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-12-...clay-and-the-high-bar-for-prosecution/7013034
There is a well-written explanation of yesterday's ruling here. Well worth a read. http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-12-...clay-and-the-high-bar-for-prosecution/7013034
they'll get you
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I've just pasted Gerbals scratched face on my hubby's dart board. Beautiful!
I can't wait for see his face when he opens the dart cupboard. I'll throw my first bullseye with pleasure.
I can't wait for see his face when he opens the dart cupboard. I'll throw my first bullseye with pleasure.
Flinders
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I love your sentiments and actions. I can't change anything but hope and pray Gerbal doesn't get the money and the children. Throw a dart for me... I'm left handed but good at darts.
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Flinders
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Thank you Poss but I don't have the stomach for GBC's legal wrangling for today.
I'll just mention that in court yesterday were the Detectives and Allison's family in court. I'm sure they felt the brunt of the decision professionally and personally.
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they'll get you
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I heard a couple of callers into Ray Hadley 2GB this morning wondering WTF?
All the callers I heard were men!!
Ray called GBC 'a lying *advertiser censored*'.
All the callers I heard were men!!
Ray called GBC 'a lying *advertiser censored*'.
Flinders
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That is the bloody conclusion. He didn't say jack squat and therefore didn't lie. He was just watching TV and Allison was gone. He was such an away from home father conducting his peccadilloes, how would he know if she was gone. Oops dumbs::::t forgot his kids knew Mum being gone was odd.
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Wolfinator
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In looking for silver linings let's hope his sentence down grade is viewed poorly by his fellow inmates - jealousy, racism, classism - any sentiment/ism will do really... As long as it's angry...
IMO
IMO
they'll get you
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They decided it was possible that there was a physical confrontation between (Baden-Clay) and his wife in which he delivered a blow which killed her ... without intending to cause serious harm, and that therefore, Allisons death may not have been premeditated.
http://www.news.com.au/national/cou...e/news-story/073e5a4e2ea6cb3b31c3d3305bfb9945
Is this the reason why? One punch laws? Oh it wasn't the punch that killed - it was the pavement that hit her head. Bloody BS!
The man found guilty of killing Sydney teenager Daniel Christie in a one-punch attack at Kings Cross in 2013 has been sentenced to a maximum of 10 years in jail.
Shaun McNeil, 27, was found not guilty of murder but guilty of manslaughter in June and will be eligible for parole in 2021.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-08-...er-one-punch-death-of-daniel-christie/6728418
http://www.news.com.au/national/cou...e/news-story/073e5a4e2ea6cb3b31c3d3305bfb9945
Is this the reason why? One punch laws? Oh it wasn't the punch that killed - it was the pavement that hit her head. Bloody BS!
The man found guilty of killing Sydney teenager Daniel Christie in a one-punch attack at Kings Cross in 2013 has been sentenced to a maximum of 10 years in jail.
Shaun McNeil, 27, was found not guilty of murder but guilty of manslaughter in June and will be eligible for parole in 2021.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-08-...er-one-punch-death-of-daniel-christie/6728418
Flinders
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I think his sentence will be applauded and his mates will want guidance from the MAN. Don't 'kill your wife", a couple of strategic "pushes" will do. Oh hang on, I didn't push her.... Just do a couple of hand-signals showing she is naughty and she will do several backflips in the yard and just expire there. Just in case, get some ropes and put her in the creek. Just so I'm all cool, I didn't put her in Little Ugly Creek. I don't want her to be memorialised as Ugly but just smelly. Fark!
My own fictionalised opinion
One-punch laws didn't come into effect in Queensland until 2014, so couldn't be applied to GBC's crime.
There have been criticisms of the laws:
http://www.qslaw.com.au/one-punch-laws-tough-on-crime-and-tough-on-rights/
I don't get what you mean. Is that (bolded) what Ray Hadley's callers were saying?
Gerard Baden-Clay has not admitted anything!
So who put up the alternative defense?
So how is it that his lawyers can put forward a change of defense on Appeal?
What has our Justice system come to if a convicted murderer can change his defense on Appeal without a re-trial of the new defense?
What is Justice if our Appeal Court Judges can change a murder conviction by Jury on the basis of 'hypotheticals'?
We do need to question these proceedings. This is our Justice system.
This smells worse each day. IMHO.
So who put up the alternative defense?
So how is it that his lawyers can put forward a change of defense on Appeal?
What has our Justice system come to if a convicted murderer can change his defense on Appeal without a re-trial of the new defense?
What is Justice if our Appeal Court Judges can change a murder conviction by Jury on the basis of 'hypotheticals'?
We do need to question these proceedings. This is our Justice system.
This smells worse each day. IMHO.
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