Netflix to stream new documentary on Steven Avery

[nomoresorrow]

I wonder what the jurors -- from BOTH trials -- are thinking now that the flaws are being revealed.

I wonder if some are feeling pangs of guilt and remorse...

"Reasonable Doubt" is the standard in this country. Not "He must have done it," or, "I think he did it."

Shame on them for not honoring their oath to find a verdict based on the facts presented in court. Any honest juror would have found more than enough reasonable doubt to acquit. At the very least, for Steven Avery's trial, it should have been a hung jury. Brendan's trial should never have even made it to court. JMO

Hopefully some serious soul-searching will take place and a conversation can begin. Maybe we'll learn just what occurred during deliberations.

 

[angelainwi]

Interesting, he called at 4:30 on the 31st

https://www.reddit.com/r/MakingaMurderer/comments/3ya1y4/timeline_october_2005_august_2006/

 

[nomoresorrow]

Does make you think differently about the plate call in and the brother/ex:
https://www.reddit.com/r/MakingaMur...ike_halbach_and_hillegas_seem_sketchy_due_to/

Interesting but I thought that the license plates were missing when it was found in the salvage yard?

 

[angelainwi]

Thrown in some other car or something I thought...

 

[Zuri]

http://www.people.com/article/steve...kratz-says-netflix-series-forgot-key-evidence

 

[stephsb]

So if the message(s) were deleted on November 2, that would mean the phone was burned/destroyed after on or after November 2. Which would put the DA theory that Steven burned them in the barrel on October 31 off by a couple of days.

This would also call into question Brendan's confession saying he saw them burning Oct 31


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[nomoresorrow]

http://www.people.com/article/steve...kratz-says-netflix-series-forgot-key-evidence

I see he's up to the same tricks - what he doesn't seem to understand is that the Netflix documentary has not been, and is not, the be-all and end-all; People are thinking critically and discussing. This has prompted them to look for and through any and every document, transcript, article, and reports they can find on the internet. He clearly doesn't see the whole picture himself - yet.

 

[GigiG]

http://www.people.com/article/steve...kratz-says-netflix-series-forgot-key-evidence

I find it very hard to believe that a guy who: 1) lost 18 years of his life in prison for a crime which he didn't commit, would: 2) After gaining his freedom, and looking at a windfall of millions of dollars, risk it all for a motiveless crime.

And, oh yeah, leave all sorts of incriminating evidence on his property, but NO DNA evidence from the victim/crime scene to speak of.

Sure.

 

[nomoresorrow]

Thrown in some other car or something I thought...

Okay but one of the problems I see with this scenerio is that, if the vehicle was discovered by Colburn on the property on the 3rd but, because it was an illegal search they had to formulate this elaborate plan, why wait until the 5th - two days - when Teresa may have been alive? Unless Colburn knew she was dead, this doesn't make sense to me. JMO ~

 

[SCHMAE]

Another question I have is ,where were the license plates found ?

I see it noted that the car was found on the lot without license plates, but then in the trial we see one of the license plates. Was the license plate checked for DNA and prints ? I know someone could have had on gloves when removing it, but all questions worth hearing answers for.

Answers to that question are in this document. http://convolutedbrian.com.s3.amazonaws.com/dassey/courtdocs/complaint-02Mar2006.pdf

ETA Tks to whoever shared it on page 2

 

[SCHMAE]

I totally understand that, but can you imagine if someone else killed her and is walking free right now? They never found her blood or DNA or anything even consistent with her being tied or raped or stabbed in his house. Not a drop of blood, nothing. That is bizarre to me.

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There is a thread here on a college student ( cannot recall name ) who went home and killed his father and nearly killed his mother with a hatchet and had no blood anywhere on his person or his clothing. I thought for sure he must be innocent but he was convicted. Stranger things have happened.

 

[Tiger09]

Anonymous just got involved. Say what you will, but if there's info to be found, they'll find it. OPAVERYDASSEY is the twitter handle. They're already releasing lots of interesting info with proof to back it up.

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[LemonMousse]

Okay but one of the problems I see with this scenerio is that, if the vehicle was discovered by Colburn on the property on the 3rd but, because it was an illegal search they had to formulate this elaborate plan, why wait until the 5th - two days - when Teresa may have been alive? Unless Colburn knew she was dead, this doesn't make sense to me. JMO ~

Good point.

For all he knew, Theresa could have been locked up in Steven's trailer at that stage being raped and tortured. Stunningly uncaring and irresponsible not to act a lot, lot sooner after finding that car whether from an illegal search or not.

Whatever the police did, I don't believe they actively wished Theresa harm.

But....it's all a bit too curious that everything of any significance that happened implicating Steven involved either Colbourn, Lenk or both.

And why exactly, of all the searchers, was only one given a camera the very (and only) ones that happened to find anything?

Maybe - and this is wildly speculative - Theresa's bones were also found that night, at the quarry. So they knew she was dead and held off arranging a specific discovery until they could move her to the pit behind the garage.

 

[GigiG]

I see he's up to the same tricks - what he doesn't seem to understand is that the Netflix documentary has not been, and is not, the be-all and end-all; People are thinking critically and discussing. This has prompted them to look for and through any and every document, transcript, article, and reports they can find on the internet. He clearly doesn't see the whole picture himself - yet.

What an excellent response! Kudos!

 

[diesel]

I would like to know the date the Avery's were asked to leave the property for 8 days if someone remembers. Thanks.

Edited to add: I believe it was 8 days, not sure.

 

[LemonMousse]

The phone calls are preoccupying me:

I hadn't realised, till I listened again, that there were two issues regarding Theresa's messages: firstly, that before she was reported missing, two messages were opened at 8am on Nov 2 (not deleted).

Secondly, that after Nov 3, one or more messages were deleted in order to make space and cancel the "Mailbox full" message.

It's unlikely that Theresa was still alive on Nov 2, so someone else listened to her messages.

Obviously, it could be her murderer who still had the phone at that point. If this was an Avery, then it's unlikely that she had a PIN in her phone....I never have had on mine, so that's not that unusual.

Or it could have been someone who didn't actually know Theresa was missing, as such, but who was in the habit of accessing her messages remotely to see what she was up to. Like a jealous ex.
People capable of that level of subterfuge and dishonesty are dangerous, IMO.

In a case that's already scandalous, it is supremely outrageous that these issues were never investigated and the potential suspects never even interviewed.

 

[MaxManning]

There is a thread here on a college student ( cannot recall name ) who went home and killed his father and nearly killed his mother with a hatchet and had no blood anywhere on his person or his clothing. I thought for sure he must be innocent but he was convicted. Stranger things have happened.

I don't think many people believe the whole slitting the throat and 10-12 shots, that's massive overkill. I believe in the dassey trial they said that a slice on the front of the neck would result in less blood, as compared to on the side which an artery would just be incredibly messy if that person is alive and the heart is pumping. I just don't even think that makes sense.

I don't believe he shot 10-12 times. Wouldn't someone recall hearing 10-12 shots ? I understand that this is likely a hunting area, but 10-12 shots in succession is not common in hunting, is it ?

So I don't believe that it could have went down that way.

I think the reason the prosecution made it so gruesome and seemingly overkill is to put that weight on the jury of making them think about how important it was to convict him. It might make a juror think - why take the chance of letting this guy off, even if they truthfully have reasonable doubt. It certainly wasn't proven to reasonable doubt, but if prosecution lays it on heavy about how you are accountable if this guy walks and does this again, some jurors might just cave to the guilty verdict. I thought I read somewhere that a juror said something similar to juror 11 - the international recording artist.

 

[chaleigh26]

I've read that the "1999 Toyota" that Lenk called in was not part of the description that the police originally gave out of the RAV4. Does anyone know details?

 

[MaxManning]

The phone calls are preoccupying me:

I hadn't realised, till I listened again, that there were two issues regarding Theresa's messages: firstly, that before she was reported missing, two messages were opened at 8am on Nov 2 (not deleted).

Secondly, that after Nov 3, one or more messages were deleted in order to make space and cancel the "Mailbox full" message.

It's unlikely that Theresa was still alive on Nov 2, so someone else listened to her messages.

Obviously, it could be her murderer who still had the phone at that point. If this was an Avery, then it's unlikely that she had a PIN in her phone....I never have had on mine, so that's not that unusual.

Or it could have been someone who didn't actually know Theresa was missing, as such, but who was in the habit of accessing her messages remotely to see what she was up to. Like a jealous ex.
People capable of that level of subterfuge and dishonesty are dangerous, IMO.

In a case that's already scandalous, it is supremely outrageous that these issues were never investigated and the potential suspects never even interviewed.

This theory was floated in the documentary indirectly when cross examining the ex boyfriend and phone carrier. They showed that ex boyfriend was party to accessing her voice mail, and that voice mails had been deleted. So this information has been out there from the beginning, however defense wasn't able to ask questions that were directly related to him giving an explanation for that as if he was a suspect. For example they couldn't ask him about where he was that day , as it didn't pertain to what he was testifying about. So nothing directly accusatory I guess.

Ex boyfriend seems like a person you MUST investigate, given he actually saw her the day before the murder and seemingly was still in her life.

Also, the roommate. He didn't report her missing until others were wondering what was up with her not responding. Would be good to know if he was trying to contact her.

 

[LemonMousse]

This theory was floated in the documentary indirectly when cross examining the ex boyfriend and phone carrier. They showed that ex boyfriend was party to accessing her voice mail, and that voice mails had been deleted. So this information has been out there from the beginning, however defense wasn't able to ask questions that were directly related to him giving an explanation for that as if he was a suspect. For example they couldn't ask him about where he was that day , as it didn't pertain to what he was testifying about. So nothing directly accusatory I guess.

Ex boyfriend seems like a person you MUST investigate, given he actually saw her the day before the murder and seemingly was still in her life.

Also, the roommate. He didn't report her missing until others were wondering what was up with her not responding. Would be good to know if he was trying to contact her.

Yes. I did watch the documentary.

I am talking about the fact that 2 voicemails were listened to before she was reported missing. Listened to....not deleted.

The judge asked Kratz if the State knew who had accessed the messages and Kratz said something like, "Er, er, er........we can investigate that if the defence wants us to". The judge decided it was irrelevant.

This is potentially a separate issue to who may have accessed & deleted messages after she was reported missing...the situation the ex and the brother were asked about.