Netflix to stream new documentary on Steven Avery - #3

[Tawny]

It had SA's DNA on it (not his blood). No DNA from Lenk or Colhourn either. How'd they get SA's DNA? The only thing available for planting (allegedly) was his blood inside an EDTA filled vial taken years before during the rape trial and stored inside the Wisconsin State Crime Lab.

Literally anywhere. They could have rubbed it on the slippers, his underwear, a pair of pants.

The thing is, from minute one, the entire investigation was compromised. They KNEW there was a conflict of interest from the start, we didn't invent that in these forums. If no one felt it was a bad idea for these boys to be searching, why'd they announce to the public they wouldn't be involved? That's why they claimed Manitowoc would not be involved in the investigation. And then they were all up in that investigation. The entire investigation needs to be thrown out and re-investigated IMO.

 

[ferretnurse]

It had SA's DNA on it (not his blood). No DNA from Lenk or Colhourn either. How'd they get SA's DNA? The only thing available for planting (allegedly) was his blood inside an EDTA filled vial taken years before during the rape trial and stored inside the Wisconsin State Crime Lab.

His toothbrush? One of his "sweat" stained shirts?

 

[Madeleine74]

Okay let's throw out the following:

the key
SA's blood in TH's SUV
the bullet with TH's DNA on it

What's left?

Oh right. Her body in tiny charred bits (which included the very Daisy Fuentes rivets found from the jeans she was wearing -- Brandon said they burned her clothes).

And?

Phone calls (at least 3) from SA to TH's phone. 2 of the calls were dialed using *67 to obscure the phone number. SA lured TH to his property by using his sister's name and sister's phone number when he called The Auto Trader to request TH come out.

And?

TH's last known movements place her at the Avery Salvage Yard, including pings from her own cell phone.

And?

TH's SUV found on the Avery property, with multiple, large pieces of metal and other debris obscuring it, one of the pieces of metal was too large and heavy for one person to move.

And?

TH's license plates found inside one of the other scrapped cars on the Avery property.

And?

TH's cell phone, palm pilot, and camera she used that very day found burned in the burn barrel right in front of SA's house. Brendan allegedly told police that's where her phone, etc were put.

 

[Sleuther87]

Also, regarding the fire, it's not like any old fire could burn a human. It would need to be one that used a lot of fuel- one good source is tires- and lasted for hours.

Steven coincidentally used at least 5 tires in his fire that night and was last seen still tending the fire at 11pm.

Some of Teresa's bones were also entwined with the steel belts from those tires he used.

What an unlucky coincidence for the poor guy.

 

[Madeleine74]

His toothbrush? One of his "sweat" stained shirts?

Seriously?

They took his toothbrush or one of his shirts out to the SUV to 'plant' his DNA on the latch underneath the hood of the SUV? The very latch police didn't even know about until Brendan told them SA opened up the hood of the SUV to disconnect something? (btw, whatever that was, a hose or whatever, was in fact found disconnected). And, a swab of the hood latch was taken by a crime scene investigator, packaged and sent to the Wisconsin Crime Lab, and the lab was able to develop a DNA profile from those swabs. It matched to SA.

 

[chaleigh26]

Actually, you didn't. You said "people" was a general term to refer to those outside of this forum that are frustrating you because they seem to base their opinion on the documentary only. I get that. But why do you keep belaboring that point, here, where people are considering other options and ARE open to other opinions and ARE basing their opinions on other things other than the documentary?? It seems kind of a wast of a post to keep belaboring a point that seems to be irrelevant in THIS forum. If you are frustrated with THOSE people on OTHER forums, take it up with them. Many of us here have expressed our frustration at your continued belittling of those of us who simply don't agree with your opinion.

We get it. You believe he is guilty. That's great. Good for you. We can continue to go back and forth and give our opinions as to why we respectfully disagree, but none of us are interested in being considered close-minded sheep who only base our opinions on one documentary. There are people here who have very valid concerns about how this investigation was handled and feel they have some reasonable doubts as to whether or not these men are guilty. There is a LOT of information out there to discover and share and that is why we are all here. If you have figured it all out already, then what else is there for you to discuss or learn? Unless you are here to listen to other people's opinions, consider the evidence that others are putting forward, I have to ask you why you are even here to begin with?

:loveyou:

 

[Tawny]

Only if you can tie Lenk to other evidence found and collected. Except, that's not possible. Because Lenk didn't find the other evidence in the case. So were all the officers and crime scene folks in on a conspiracy?

He was there when the bullet was found, IIRC.

 

[Madeleine74]

He was there when the bullet was found, IIRC.

Was he the only one there? Did he collect the bullet? Did anyone else see the bullet? Where did Lenk acquire TH's DNA to plant it on said bullet? The lab found her DNA on that bullet. That bullet was fired from the rifle SA kept above his own bed, along with the other 10 shell casings found in the garage (all were fired from the same rifle). Ballistics tests confirmed it. Her skull bone(s) had tiny embedded lead fragments found when x-rayed by the forensic anthropologists.

 

[Jacki1971]

That FBI testing was a joke; there is a reason that test hadn't been done in over ten years and had never been used in court (except the OJ case by consent) - it was not a valid or reliable test.

My biggest problem is that people are insisting he is innocent based on NOTHING. You might not be this way, but many others are. If you (or anyone else) comes to the decision that he is innocent based on your research, then wonderful for you. You would be an informed decision maker. My frustration is in the people who are NOT informed decision makers. And, the above piece makes more sense to me than any other piece I've read. There are no answers to so much of what people are INSISTING happened. For example, since the FBI tests found that the blood in the vehicle was NOT taken from the vial, HOW did they get SA's active blood to plant? People are still out there insisting that the blood was planted and basing their entire opinion on this bunk. To believe that the blood was taken from the vial, you would have to believe that the FBI is also in on the conspiracy. How many more are they going to bring in to try to prove that SA didn't do this?

 

[Safeguard]

I don't feel I need any more proof of LE corruption then this;

They were willing to use child abuse to prove their case. I find what they did to BD so absolutely despicable that I feel there is no bottom to the depths of corruption they were willing to go to.

A bunch of seasoned LE officials raped a mentally retarded teenager.

They knew they were sending him to a fate he didn't deserve.

 

[TheDuchess]

Why would being deposed mean they have something to lose? Here, read the opinion of a civil defense attorney who deals with these exact types of lawsuits: https://www.reddit.com/r/MakingaMur...houghts_from_a_civil_defense_attorney_on_the/

I found this opinion and the subsequent posts to be quite interesting and informative, from seemingly well educated attorneys, so thank you for sharing it. While I appreciate the feedback, one thing that wasn't considered in his overall evaluation was the tremendous amount of media surrounding this case. You had the news all over it, people appalled at what happened, the victim horrified, the Innocence Project involved, etc... It was a HUGE black eye for this small town. I mean, the original sheriff framed his original suspect sketch and hung it on the wall in his office!!!! They were so very proud of this case and getting their man. And this wasn't just a bad arrest...this was 18 years!!!! This was BAD. Very, very bad.

So to me, there is some financial concern of being sued, the bigger threat was being proven WRONG!! In their eyes it was so unfair. SA was a . Everyone knew it. He exposed himself and set cats on fire and chased after people with rifles, etc... And now he was a hero. Oh, how that must have sit with them. I mean, the sheriff actually stated on the witness stand that he still wasn't actually convinced SA was innocent of the attempted rape!

There was a LOT of justifying going on the entire time SA sat in prison all of that time and they never thought anyone would ever care about a junkyard dog like SA. And here they are the bad guys and SA is the hero. To me, THAT is more a motivation than anything for all hands on deck when Teresa turned up missing. I can only imagine how much they all felt that this was their chance to show the world that even though SA didn't try to rape the original woman, he really WAS a very very bad man.

I honestly don't see it being a huge stretch to drop a key here, a bullet there, some blood drops there, etc...to help bolster a case against a man they truly felt was a guilty man all along.

 

[TheDuchess]

It had SA's DNA on it (not his blood). No DNA from Lenk or Colhourn either. How'd they get SA's DNA? The only thing available for planting (allegedly) was his blood inside an EDTA filled vial taken years before during the rape trial and stored inside the Wisconsin State Crime Lab.

Only everything in that room would have had DNA and would have been able to transfer as touch DNA on it. Heck - rub his toothbrush on it. As a matter of fact, the carpet would have likely had plenty of his touch DNA all over it, as God only knows the last time it was ever cleaned or vacuumed.

 

[Madeleine74]

Some of my questions


- Why did SA call TH's phone multiple times and at least twice, and obscured his own number by dialing *67 prior to her coming out that afternoon?

- Who else did TH interact with that fateful day AFTER visiting the Avery property? We know for sure she interacted with SA. SA had the receipt and a copy of the Autotrader that TH gives to each client after getting paid and taking the pictures, and those were inside his trailer. TH had 2 appointments prior to visiting the Avery Salvage Yard but she was never seen or heard from again.

- How did TH's cell phone, PDA, and camera get into SA's burn barrel?

- How did SA get that cut on his right hand middle finger the very day TH was killed?

- How did Brendan's pants (the ones he produced and said he wore the night TH was killed, and said he was wearing when he and SA were trying to get rid stains in the garage with bleach) get large bleach stains on them if what Brendan said was false?

- How did SA's DNA (this was not blood) get onto the latch under the front hood of TH's SUV? (Brendan had disclosed his uncle popped the hood and disconnected something). Who disconnected the hose that was found already disconnected when the hood of the SUV was opened to take the DNA swabs?

- So it wasn't SA who killed TH? Then who did? (The police? One of the brothers?) How did the brothers get SA's blood or DNA into TH's SUV? Then why did SA fire 10 or 11 shots from his own rifle in his garage?

 

[Jacki1971]

I read that a police officer admitted pending the RAV hood after opening the hoods on SA's car and that he did not change gloves in between. If that is true, the Dan could have been transferred by the officer.

Seriously?

They took his toothbrush or one of his shirts out to the SUV to 'plant' his DNA on the latch underneath the hood of the SUV? The very latch police didn't even know about until Brendan told them SA opened up the hood of the SUV to disconnect something? (btw, whatever that was, a hose or whatever, was in fact found disconnected). And, a swab of the hood latch was taken by a crime scene investigator, packaged and sent to the Wisconsin Crime Lab, and the lab was able to develop a DNA profile from those swabs. It matched to SA.

 

[ferretnurse]

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/201...ense-steven-avery-may-be-stone-cold-innocent/ Hope this is allowed, it has quotes from Strang about the hood latch.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Please, let's remember, the burden of proof is on the prosecution, not the defense. The defense is not required to provide an alternative theory. In fact, due to some weird WI law, they were actually prevented from doing so.

Again, this is about "Reasonable Doubt." There is plenty here.

The fact that the Avery jury verdicts "split the baby," and that some jurors have come forward admitting that there was vote trading, calls into question whether or not this was a fair trial.

Has this case come up on its first appeal? If so, did the higher court render a decision?

While its true the state must prove their case beyond a reasonable doubt but since there was a verdict of Guilty in the first trial then to get a re-trial it must be decided by the appellate court, right? Have they said they believe one or both defendants deserve a new trial? Have any of the higher courts even mentioned this case since the documentary aired?

About the law on theories concerning the defense not being able to enter one........ that is very strange because the defense theory in the first trial was he had been framed by LE and evidence planted. That was their theory even back then.

It is very easy for defense attorneys to say 'the evidence COULD HAVE BEEN planted' however; that is not proof to the higher court who hears the case. Many defense lawyers claim evidence was planted or tainted so the Judges are already very well aware of that common claim. Does this DT have substantiated proof to support their claims that evidence was planted to frame Avery?

I would think if they had positive proof the police planted evidence the Governor of the state would have long ago stepped in. Has the Governor of the state made any comments about this case?

tia

 

[ferretnurse]

Was that officer Lenk? It is alleged to be Lenk who found (i.e. planted) the key in SA's bedroom. Did the officer who allegedly didn't change his gloves after handling the Rav4 and SA's car also handle the key in SA's bedroom?

No, now I'm addressing the rav4. Originally, you asked about the key, I answered. This is about the car, which you asked about next.

 

[MaxManning]

Was he the only one there? Did he collect the bullet? Did anyone else see the bullet? Where did Lenk acquire TH's DNA to plant it on said bullet? The lab found her DNA on that bullet. That bullet was fired from the rifle SA kept above his own bed, along with the other 10 shell casings found in the garage (all were fired from the same rifle). Ballistics tests confirmed it. Her skull bone(s) had tiny embedded lead fragments found when x-rayed by the forensic anthropologists.

Directly from the dassey trial transcripts regarding the ballistics tests :

All I can say about, uh, this Item 114, isthat it's a .22 caliber bullet, that it was firedfrom a gun manufactured with 16 lands and grooves,and a right-hand twist in the barrel of the gun.
I cannot be specific of what -- aboutwhat gun that was. For example, whether,specifically, it was fired from this particularrifle. Because of those microscopic markingsthat I've described as having been scratched inthe surface of bullets by barrels, are notpresent there anymore. They've been obliteratedby its -- its contact, or passage through, withwhatever it struck.

What does this suggest to you, about the statement of yours that I bolded above ?


I am not trying to be disrespectful here, but I am saying that I think you are doing some of what I have done in the past, which is assuming certain things are true, for whatever reason. I have heard numerous things people have stated as facts that upon closer examination of wording and the actual transcript, are not that at all.


But if you have some other source for matching that bullet to that gun, definitely present that, because it indeed would be relevant.

I also would hope that you consider finding all these casings in that garage after being in there multiple times and not noticing them , would be odd. Also, I'd hope you agree that finding casings from Avery's rifel ANYWHERE on that property is probably irrelevant, since these guys were firing them all the time.

But, matching a bullet to that rifle, is not what we have here, based on that transcript.

 

[Madeleine74]

I've read so far the following in being pointed at in an alleged framing of SA, in various combinations:

- His brothers and/or
- His brother-in-law and/or
- One of his other nephews and/or
- The local police and/or
- The Sheriff's Dept and/or
- The DA and/or
- The FBI and/or
- Someone in TH's family or among her friends and/or
- The Wisconsin State Crime Lab

 

[Madeleine74]

If any of you were a cop or investigator, how would you have approached this case?

- Who would you talk to first? Then who next?
- What would be your determination of TH's movements that day? (did she leave the Avery appointment and drive away?)
- Do you believe TH was killed while at the Avery property that day? If not, where do you think she was killed and what evidence leads you to your conclusion?