OR - Militia members occupy federal building in Oregon after protest #2

[Dr. Know?]

and, here they go again...

Joe Douglass ‏@KATUJoe 23m23 minutes ago Burns, OR
Truck with flashing police lights seen racing towards Malheur Nat'l Wildlife Refuge. #LiveOnK2

https://twitter.com/KATUJoe/with_replies

 

[i.b.nora]

With fresh eyes, and ears, and thoughts this morning, I think there are a number of missing factors which could help me further assess what I see.

For instance, after being stopped in the vehicle for those many minutes, what caused Finicum to take off and appear to try to get away? What was said by him and by the LE during those many minutes?

What caused Finicum to try to get around the roadblock?

What caused Finicum to get out of the vehicle so quickly after plowing into the snowbank (and nearly hitting a person)? What did he say inside and outside of the vehicle at that time? Why did he even jump out of the vehicle? Did he have a seat belt on? Did the others have seat belts on?

So many questions and answers still needed to satisfy me that I have a full and complete picture to assess.

And, to add, I have thought for some time after watching some of his online videos as well as "news" interviews that there is/was something medically wrong with Finicum. Maybe reading his book or books would provide me some insight? I don't really think I am going to do that, but I might.

Anyhow, I sure would like to know more.

 

[i.b.nora]

Amanda Peacher
Amanda Peacher – Verified account ‏@amandapeacher

David Fry is not yet answering my call this morn. Last night he said the power was still on at the refuge. #Oregonstandoff
7:11 AM - 29 Jan 2016 from Burns, OR

 

[Donjeta]

http://www.oregonlive.com/geek/2016/01/ammon_bundy_gets_his_own_voodo.html

Ammon Bundy gets his own Voodoo Doughnut

As for the story behind the Bundy donut and whether the business had reservations about poking fun at an event that ended with one person being killed, Nichols said, "I'm not at liberty to talk about our politics."

She encouraged a reporter to send an official email through the Voodoo Doughnut website. No one has contacted The Oregonian/OregonLive.

Judging from the Instagram comments, however, the donut shop's customers have no problem laughing at what they appear to see as a just dessert.

 

[Tulessa]

00:27 and 00:32 in this video. If you can’t see the edits in the supposedly unedited video, then you are blind.

[video=youtube;aAGxDWKrjPQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAGxDWKrjPQ[/video]

Where are the body cam videos?? Why aren't they showing them??

 

[Tulessa]

00:27 and 00:32 in this video. If you can’t see the edits in the supposedly unedited video, then you are blind.

[video=youtube;aAGxDWKrjPQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAGxDWKrjPQ[/video]

The edits are there. Not sure why ohreally isn't seeing them.

 

[SuzDuJour]

IMO Finicum clearly posed a threat when he lowered his arms to his waist, twice. What isn't on the tapes were the verbal commands by LE...was he ordered to keep his hands in the air and stop moving? I'd bet he was...

 

[i.b.nora]

John Sepulvado
John Sepulvado – Verified account ‏@JohnLGC

ok, so we've been checking some stuff out this morning. power is STILL on at the refuge, which means communications can be had at the site.
9:04 AM - 29 Jan 2016

 

[bluesneakers]

With fresh eyes, and ears, and thoughts this morning, I think there are a number of missing factors which could help me further assess what I see.

For instance, after being stopped in the vehicle for those many minutes, what caused Finicum to take off and appear to try to get away? What was said by him and by the LE during those many minutes?

What caused Finicum to try to get around the roadblock?

What caused Finicum to get out of the vehicle so quickly after plowing into the snowbank (and nearly hitting a person)? What did he say inside and outside of the vehicle at that time? Why did he even jump out of the vehicle? Did he have a seat belt on? Did the others have seat belts on?

So many questions and answers still needed to satisfy me that I have a full and complete picture to assess.

And, to add, I have thought for some time after watching some of his online videos as well as "news" interviews that there is/was something medically wrong with Finicum. Maybe reading his book or books would provide me some insight? I don't really think I am going to do that, but I might.

Anyhow, I sure would like to know more.

I would really like to know what was being said. The exchange could make all the difference. What if he were saying I've got a gun and I'm going to shoot you? Or you'll never take me alive? Based on what he's said and this chase I think it's possible. But what if it was something like I give up, I'll drop my weapon?

I believe this is how he wanted to go, though he might have changed his mind, but even if it was his fantasy it doesn't give the officer a free pass.

 

[Donjeta]

I think he probably got exactly what he wanted.

 

[SuzDuJour]

I think he probably got exactly what he wanted.

He may have wanted to take out a few LEOs along with himself...

 

[pappa rob]

http://www.oregonlive.com/geek/2016/01/ammon_bundy_gets_his_own_voodo.html

Ammon Bundy gets his own Voodoo Doughnut

That's amazing, thanks for the laugh..

 

[Brightbird]

Well, what a sad thing watching a dead man in the snow like that. I'm not convinced either way. How could I be? There's no way to tell what was happening from the perspective of the officers on the ground. I think it's stupid to release video like that. It can be twisted many ways.

But if I've learnt thing one thing from cop shooting threads here, running from the cops is worthy of an instant death penalty. So at the least, I expect to hear that he deserved it on that basis alone (insert extreme sarcasm).

 

[kaen]

I would really like to know what was being said. The exchange could make all the difference. What if he were saying I've got a gun and I'm going to shoot you? Or you'll never take me alive? Based on what he's said and this chase I think it's possible. But what if it was something like I give up, I'll drop my weapon?

I believe this is how he wanted to go, though he might have changed his mind, but even if it was his fantasy it doesn't give the officer a free pass.

Unfortunately, he could be saying, "Have a nice day." and go for his gun to kill the officer. It is the actions/body movement that counts not the words. If he goes for his waist band (even once) and they think he might be going for his gun, all bets are off. It is often discussed here that it is a split second decision and that suspects should know they have to yield. I guess I am a little surprised that a number of people question this shooting as non-necessary. In other cases where there was not a belief that a suspect even had a gun but was non-compliant, many folks stood on the side of LEO must protect themselves and the suspect should know to put their hands up and follow all commands.

I have no doubt that this man was having some medical issues. That said, he created a situation where the officer felt threatened and fired. I believe it may have been what he wanted. I am sad for his family.

I am also sad for the officer who is doing his job and is now having his professionalism questioned.

 

[Lilibet]

The edits are there. Not sure why ohreally isn't seeing them.

The "edits" look more like a sudden change of camera focus to me. I'm not blind and I stared at the screen without blinking. I don't see what you and kaboom are seeing.

ETA: Is anyone claiming that these two supposed "edits" mean that the shooting sequence is edited too? If so, I don't see that either. If not, what's the implication?Finicum's death is a tragedy, but he was given plenty of time while he was stopped initially, before speeding off, to cooperate. IMO LE handled this situation with great restraint. But they are not required to let someone shoot them just to prove that they did everything perfectly. JMO

 

[Fairy1]

I would really like to know what was being said. The exchange could make all the difference. What if he were saying I've got a gun and I'm going to shoot you? Or you'll never take me alive? Based on what he's said and this chase I think it's possible. But what if it was something like I give up, I'll drop my weapon?

I believe this is how he wanted to go, though he might have changed his mind, but even if it was his fantasy it doesn't give the officer a free pass.

BBM - isn't this pretty much what he said from the beginning? By taking off and then trying to run through the roadblock, his intentions seemed pretty clear, IMO.

That said, I'd like to hear the audio, as well.

 

[i.b.nora]

Oregon suspects won’t be released amid standoff
Associated Press 10:03 a.m. EST January 29, 2016

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/nation/2016/01/29/ranching-standoff/79511324/

Burns, Ore. — “A federal judge says she will not release any of the people arrested in the standoff at an Oregon wildlife refuge while the occupation continues.

The Oregonian reports U.S. Magistrate Judge Stacie F. Beckerman made the comments Thursday during an initial court appearance in Portland for three of the 11 people arrested. The FBI said four people remained at the site late Thursday.​

I hope the reporters who are in touch with David Fry and the others is passing this information on.

 

[Fairy1]

Oregon suspects won’t be released amid standoff
Associated Press 10:03 a.m. EST January 29, 2016

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/nation/2016/01/29/ranching-standoff/79511324/

Burns, Ore. — “A federal judge says she will not release any of the people arrested in the standoff at an Oregon wildlife refuge while the occupation continues.

The Oregonian reports U.S. Magistrate Judge Stacie F. Beckerman made the comments Thursday during an initial court appearance in Portland for three of the 11 people arrested. The FBI said four people remained at the site late Thursday.​

I hope the reporters who are in touch with David Fry and the others is passing this information on.

This certainly explains why King Bundy and his Mrs. are instructing the holdouts to stand down and go home.

 

[i.b.nora]

This certainly explains why King Bundy and his Mrs. are instructing the holdouts to stand down and go home.

Yes, indeed it does.

 

[Brightbird]

Unfortunately, he could be saying, "Have a nice day." and go for his gun to kill the officer. It is the actions/body movement that counts not the words. If he goes for his waist band (even once) and they think he might be going for his gun, all bets are off. It is often discussed here that it is a split second decision and that suspects should know they have to yield. I guess I am a little surprised that a number of people question this shooting as non-necessary. In other cases where there was not a belief that a suspect even had a gun but was non-compliant, many folks stood on the side of LEO must protect themselves and the suspect should know to put their hands up and follow all commands.

I have no doubt that this man was having some medical issues. That said, he created a situation where the officer felt threatened and fired. I believe it may have been what he wanted. I am sad for his family.

I am also sad for the officer who is doing his job and is now having his professionalism questioned.

For myself personally, it's important to think critically and not side with anyone. I don't think it's possible to tell from that video whether it was a justified shooting. I suppose there was the likelihood that he was armed and willing to fight. But hey, a lot of people are armed in America. No wonder the police react so quickly when someone's "non-compliant".