Bosma Murder Trial 02.18.16 - Day 11

[Alderbrook]

Link to Lisa Hefners segment on the news at 6:00. Right at the end she makes ref to the dentist iding the tooth but not sure if it's to Tim or just stating its a tooth?

http://www.chch.com/bosma-day/


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[Wondergirl]

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 23s23 seconds ago
Asked Millard why he didn't buy a diesel truck. Millard says diesel's hard to get. Did not discuss if diesel readily available in Mexico.

Lisa Hepfner ‏@HefCHCHNews 9s9 seconds ago
Mechanic says he told Dellen #Millard he should have gotten a diesel truck to tow his jeep down to Mexico for Baja race

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 1m1 minute ago
Nothing from Dungey. Witness excused. Lunch break until 2 pm.

Jumping in here on the "diesel is hard to get" comment.

Used trucks hold their very value well. They don't depreciate as much as cars. Diesel trucks cost WAY more than Gassers. But they are also way more robust and at one time, were far more economical to run that a gasser.

Anyone seriously contemplating towing a large haul over a lengthy distance, would be far better off driving a diesel.

Diesel trucks are very hard to find used, and when you find them - they aren't cheap. They also hold their value very well.

I believe this is what is meant by the "diesel is hard to get" comment.

HTH

 

[Wondergirl]

Sickest part of this whole thing is that someone with money (apparently) could pay the asking price of the truck and instead of paying for it, so many lives have been changed because of greed. Three years later we are hearing of the voice cracking of a seasoned witness when explaining the need for the family to have as much of Tim's remains as possible. The jurors, the witnessess, family and friends of all involved, a random guy riding a dirt bike, LE, others who had trucks for sale... the list is endless of those personally affected and touched by this crime.

I do agree about the money thing and him buying a truck

Just keep in mind though - a new, souped up diesel dually is likely $60-70 K.

Poor Tim put $10 K into fixing his in 1 year and it was fairly new. And he was asking $24 K. That damn truck was the ultimate curse and it just makes me ill thinking about it.

 

[deugirtni]

It's hard to believe that they've just finished up the 3rd week. I'm surprised at the Defence, but I guess there's really nothing to defend at this point. It's almost as if it's simply a narrative of what DM & MS did before, during and after. Exactly when will the Defence start with their defence, or are they just hoping that the Jury will be left with one ounce of reasonable doubt? Up until this point, they just seem to be clarifying things. MOO

I was following a historical Hamilton case of a double murder - 'William Staples/Rhonda Borelli', where it was years (decades?) later when the son/brother was finally arrested for the murders.. the case finally went to trial, and by that time, there was not a lot of public interest. Good old Susan Clairmont covered the case, but she seemed to ever be the only reporter present during the trial. She may not have reported on every single detail, but I have to admit that even though I believed the accused to be guilty all of the years between the murder and the trial, I was shocked that the jury actually came back with a guilty verdict, based on what little was actually reported on as evidence.... but then again, perhaps not every detail of the trial was reported on.. with just one reporter covering, it would be easy to miss things, perhaps relevant. The defence in this case did not call a single witness. I believe the defence was banking on that there just wasn't enough evidence to convict without a reasonable doubt, and so they simply remained silent. It backfired. Mark Staples is serving his mandatory minimum 25 year sentence before parole consideration.

I wonder if this case will have any defence witnesses to call upon, and if so, what could such witnesses possibly have to offer which would provide reasonable doubt to the evidence presented thus far?

So far, after 3 weeks, it seems the defence is striving for reasonable doubt based on the 'could have been DM, but since he didn't hide anything, he could be innocent and it also could have been anyone else' theory. But of course, there are far too many holes and coincidences for *that* to work, and there must be a lot more Crown evidence to come, since so far, I'm not even seeing what evidence they had to implicate MS in this murder in the first place. I'm sure his turn is coming soon though!

 

[Alderbrook]

Jumping in here on the "diesel is hard to get" comment.

Used trucks hold their very value well. They don't depreciate as much as cars. Diesel trucks cost WAY more than Gassers. But they are also way more robust and at one time, were far more economical to run that a gasser.

Anyone seriously contemplating towing a large haul over a lengthy distance, would be far better off driving a diesel.

Diesel trucks are very hard to find used, and when you find them - they aren't cheap. They also hold their value very well.

I believe this is what is meant by the "diesel is hard to get" comment.

HTH

I agree, I used to work in various areas of the trucking industry and that industry is alive in Mexico too so I'm guessing diesel isn't hard to find there as a fuel.

This link is to some of the challenges in Mexico to the industry and nothing is mentioned about diesel being hard to find.

http://www.trucknews.com/features/a-glimpse-into-mexicos-trucking-industry/


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[Alderbrook]

I was following a historical Hamilton case of a double murder - 'William Staples/Rhonda Borelli', where it was years (decades?) later when the son/brother was finally arrested for the murders.. the case finally went to trial, and by that time, there was not a lot of public interest. Good old Susan Clairmont covered the case, but she seemed to ever be the only reporter present during the trial. She may not have reported on every single detail, but I have to admit that even though I believed the accused to be guilty all of the years between the murder and the trial, I was shocked that the jury actually came back with a guilty verdict, based on what little was actually reported on as evidence.... but then again, perhaps not every detail of the trial was reported on.. with just one reporter covering, it would be easy to miss things, perhaps relevant. The defence in this case did not call a single witness. I believe the defence was banking on that there just wasn't enough evidence to convict without a reasonable doubt, and so they simply remained silent. It backfired. Mark Staples is serving his mandatory minimum 25 year sentence before parole consideration.

I wonder if this case will have any defence witnesses to call upon, and if so, what could such witnesses possibly have to offer which would provide reasonable doubt to the evidence presented thus far?

So far, after 3 weeks, it seems the defence is striving for reasonable doubt based on the 'could have been DM, but since he didn't hide anything, he could be innocent and it also could have been anyone else' theory. But of course, there are far too many holes and coincidences for *that* to work, and there must be a lot more Crown evidence to come, since so far, I'm not even seeing what evidence they had to implicate MS in this murder in the first place. I'm sure his turn is coming soon though!

http://m.thespec.com/opinion-story/6309994-bosma-trial-defence-target-police-investigation/

Susan Clairmont's summary of the defence strategy so far. Not sure it's been posted before here?


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[swedie]

Wow! I am totally impressed with the chart at the end of the video showing what bones and fragments Dr. Rogers was able to identify. That is amazing! I didn't realize this could be done. I assumed bone fragments were bone fragments and being so small and burnt, forensics wouldn't be able to identify them as she did, labelling what part of the body a fragment was from, right down to each finger on either hand. Incredible!

This type of science gives me great hope some of LB's remains were found, no matter how minute, Dr. Rogers was able to be exact. After seeing this, I would not be surprised at all if she found fragments of LB's in the bottom also, and this is how LE were able to tell LB's parents she is deceased. There is no way LE would tell her parents that if they didn't have proof. Stands to reason why the Crown asked for the DI and the AG approved in Laura's case also.
ALL MOO.

 

[Alethea Dice]

Great find Voominvava, thank you. So DM sent two texts to SS at 5:42 am and 5:43am. The later one pinged off a tower near the farmland according to the cell phone maps. MOO.

That map looks to me like he was on the 401 almost to the hangar at 5:42 am. He was in Etobicoke at 2:59 am, then near the hangar when he sent the text to SS at 5:42 am, and at the hangar when SS texted him back at 7:35 am.

JMO

 

[Wondergirl]

It's hard to believe that they've just finished up the 3rd week. I'm surprised at the Defence, but I guess there's really nothing to defend at this point. It's almost as if it's simply a narrative of what DM & MS did before, during and after. Exactly when will the Defence start with their defence, or are they just hoping that the Jury will be left with one ounce of reasonable doubt? Up until this point, they just seem to be clarifying things. MOO

Anyone here that followed the Michael Rafferty trial for the high profile murder of Victoria Stafford, will recognize the methodical rolling out of the evidence by the Crown.

The lack of defence will likely be similar to that case.

There is so much hard evidence against them - there is little ability to defend.

And I might add as my own opinion - they will also be found guilty!

I haven't followed the controversial trials in the U.S. - we may get some glimpses of sideshow antics and tactics by the defense - but I would guess that it will be fairly subdued in true Canadian fashion.

Jmo

 

[swedie]

I've to admit, I'm impressed by the efforts the Crown and LE expended to put together a strong, relatively coherent case. There have been blunders, but plenty more procedures that officers correctly conducted, experts verified, and lawyers successfully kept from the public until beginning of trial. If they continue to present evidence in this straightforward manner, with character witnesses and corroborating videos, as a jury member, I'd be hard-pressed to consider both accused innocent of all charges.

Pictures of the available evidence drive home to me the extent of violence inflicted on TB before and after his death (thanks again to those who are posting them here). It takes a *special* kind of person to load an innocent man's body into an incinerator to burn beyond recognition. Rather than dumping the body in a ditch, DM, and presumably MS, took deliberate steps to eliminate traces of incriminating evidence as best they could. I can't, or perhaps don't really want to, imagine what went on in their heads as they waited for the incinerator to do its dirty work at the hangar that night.

One thought about the tooth found in the incinerator / eliminator. I'm wondering if it was sufficient enough size to extract DNA from - just thinking if it could be used to ID the victim more accurately than 75% and bolster the Crown's case. ADD: Perhaps that's what the dentist will help clarify next week.

All of the bones and bone fragments AND THE TOOTH belong to TB. In the video posted above by Matou, at the end, you will see how Dr. Rogers was able to identify each bone and fragment including the tooth belonging to TB. Dr. Rogers has the tooth labelled left side, lower jaw. HTH and MOO.

 

[Wollander77]

All of the bones and bone fragments AND THE TOOTH belong to TB. In the video posted above by Matou, at the end, you will see how Dr. Rogers was able to identify each bone and fragment including the tooth belonging to TB. Dr. Rogers has the tooth labelled left side, lower jaw. HTH and MOO.

Ah, good catch, I just skimmed through the evidence. Can sympathize with Bosma's mother, Mary, and why she would rather skip the courtroom today - evidence is painful to look at. ADD: Also impressed by Dr. Rogers' ability to identify the bones with such precision - glad she's testifying for this trial.

 

[Alethea Dice]

I agree, I used to work in various areas of the trucking industry and that industry is alive in Mexico too so I'm guessing diesel isn't hard to find there as a fuel.

This link is to some of the challenges in Mexico to the industry and nothing is mentioned about diesel being hard to find.

http://www.trucknews.com/features/a-glimpse-into-mexicos-trucking-industry/


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Someone posted a link a few pages back. It isn't that you can't buy diesel fuel in Mexico, it's that you couldn't get "ultra low sulfur" diesel. It's my understanding that it's still not available everywhere in Mexico. If you don't care about damaging your engine, and don't care about voiding your warranty, go ahead and use the plain low sulfur diesel while you're there.

https://www.mexicomike.com/fuel_in_mexico/diesel-mexico.html

From your link:

There’s talk of bringing Mexico in line with current Canada/US emissions standards but that won’t be easily achieved, since ultra low-sulfur diesel cannot currently be purchased there.

 

[MsSherlock]

Jumping in here on the "diesel is hard to get" comment.

Used trucks hold their very value well. They don't depreciate as much as cars. Diesel trucks cost WAY more than Gassers. But they are also way more robust and at one time, were far more economical to run that a gasser.

Anyone seriously contemplating towing a large haul over a lengthy distance, would be far better off driving a diesel.

Diesel trucks are very hard to find used, and when you find them - they aren't cheap. They also hold their value very well.

I believe this is what is meant by the "diesel is hard to get" comment.

HTH

Thanks for that info!! Would it be safe to say that hauling a loaded 5th wheel thru the mountains would be much easier with a diesel than with a gasser? There's more than a few little hills between Ontario and Baja.

 

[hopingforjustice]

It is a very convincing case so far. DM probabl/possibly shocked at all the detail.

I know the Crown has to provide discovery to the defense, but exactly how much detail are they required to provide. I guess what I am trying to ask is, do the defendants know everything that has come up/is going to come up or do they just know that (for example) blood was found and not the extent that it was. Anyone able to help me on this?

 

[Alethea Dice]

Unless that purchase, which was actually done in April, maxed out all available cash for Millard Properties, likely owned by DM. Not to be confused with MillardAir, which was owned by his father and may have still been in probate?

MOO

As I found out when I went to buy a new car, you can't put a vehicle on a credit card. Their limit was $2000. They don't want to pay the credit card fees on a large credit purchase. I just wanted to get the points on my credit card.

So...everything else for this trip could likely be purchased mainly on credit. DM's credit cards, not MillardAir cards. I believe he also called his "business" Millard Properties. Where he was doing the buying, renting and selling of real estate as seen on the cards that were in his possession. But there might have been a hold on any more large purchases through MillardAir at the time while WM's estate was being sorted out? Considering that in May, there was no income coming in and a whole lot of debt likely needing to be paid?

So perhaps today's witness is the first we're seeing of a motive and why he didn't just "buy a truck".

MOO

Regarding the bolded parts, I'm not sure where you got this idea. Millard Properties Limited has been around for a long time and wasn't invented by DM. In fact, the Waterloo hangar was owned and operated by Millard Properties Limited.

http://www.waterlooairport.ca/en/newslist/index.aspx?corpId=gzyzez7QxwumqjwReGz9VgeQuAleQuAl&newsId=i52UZ5lA5HLr92zhurNRq1BvcgeQuAleQuAl

https://www.amco.on.ca/wp-content/uploads/May-2015-Ezine-Revised-Two.pdf

Burns — who was also put in charge at the family companies Millard Holdings and Millard Properties in May...

http://www.annrbrocklehurst.com/2013/08/dellen-millards-mother-sells-more-of-his-properties.html

 

[Alderbrook]

Someone posted a link a few pages back. It isn't that you can't buy diesel fuel in Mexico, it's that you couldn't get "ultra low sulfur" diesel. It's my understanding that it's still not available everywhere in Mexico. If you don't care about damaging your engine, and don't care about voiding your warranty, go ahead and use the plain low sulfur diesel while you're there.

https://www.mexicomike.com/fuel_in_mexico/diesel-mexico.html

From your link:

Everything I've read says 2007.5 and newer shouldn't use Mexican diesel. http://bajamary.com/media/Mexico-Diesel.php

I'm not sure that tims truck would apply? His was a 2007 I believe and not sure what the Cummins engine required?


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[Alethea Dice]

Everything I've read says 2007.5 and newer shouldn't use Mexican diesel. http://bajamary.com/media/Mexico-Diesel.php

I'm not sure that tims truck would apply? His was a 2007 I believe and not sure what the Cummins engine required?


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Sorry, I was thinking DM's was a 2008, but that was when he bought it. My mistake.

 

[Ontario Mom]

I think it's quite interesting to look back/think back two and a half years and see how a lot of our theories seem to be fitting with what we figured. Some things which surprised or shocked me were; TB taken to the hangar in the incinerator, towed by his own truck, and the evil deed done there, it was one of DM's own "employees" AJ, who called in information to CS, DM actually had the audacity to call someone to arrange for a paint job of TB's truck, the size of the incinerator, how many "nosy" neighbours noticed things going on around the farmland and DM has the balls to act inappropriately in the courtroom. MOO.

Anyone else have any information they are surprised or shocked about thus far?

It really makes me wonder what else is about to come out that we had NO idea about? So far, all of it seems to be rather damning as far as DM goes, but for MS? Seems more he was just someone along for the ride. That, woops, forgot to roll on DM at the first chance.

 

[swedie]

I will one day figure out how to make images full screen

Anyhow, here is an image of Dr. Rogers mapping of TB's bones she found in the incinerator...including the tooth. When you count the bones/bone fragments on TB's mapping diagram, there are 16 fragments and 2 bones, a total of 18 plus TB's one tooth. According to the Crown's OS, 58 bone fragments, 2 virtually complete bones and one tooth were recovered from inside the vault. 17 of these bone fragments and 2 complete bones were definitely human – the tooth appeared human. The remaining 41 bone fragments exhibited characteristics of human bone.

So...who do the remaining 41 bones fragments belong too? LB? Or were they just unidentifiable? When you consider how Dr. Rogers was able to identify some of those very tiny bones of TB's hands, that give me a somewhat IYKWIM good feeling, that perhaps at least one of those 41 fragments just might belong to LB. MOO.

 

[deugirtni]

I've to admit, I'm impressed by the efforts the Crown and LE expended to put together a strong, relatively coherent case. There have been blunders, but plenty more procedures that officers correctly conducted, experts verified, and lawyers successfully kept from the public until beginning of trial. If they continue to present evidence in this straightforward manner, with character witnesses and corroborating videos, as a jury member, I'd be hard-pressed to consider both accused innocent of all charges.

Pictures of the available evidence drive home to me the extent of violence inflicted on TB before and after his death (thanks again to those who are posting them here). It takes a *special* kind of person to load an innocent man's body into an incinerator to burn beyond recognition. Rather than dumping the body in a ditch, DM, and presumably MS, took deliberate steps to eliminate traces of incriminating evidence as best they could. I can't, or perhaps don't really want to, imagine what went on in their heads as they waited for the incinerator to do its dirty work at the hangar that night.

One thought about the tooth found in the incinerator / eliminator. I'm wondering if it was sufficient enough size to extract DNA from - just thinking if it could be used to ID the victim more accurately than 75% and bolster the Crown's case. ADD: Perhaps that's what the dentist will help clarify next week.

The 75% accuracy, I believe, was in relation to the bone being that of a male human, as opposed to being TB. Not sure if they will have been able to get any DNA from the bones they found. But.. if not TB, then whom? Not much in the way of reasonable doubt there, even if they can't get DNA.... as long as they know they are human bones!

I am confused about all of the little markers that Dr. Rogers indicated were marked at the burn site(s), when she had her students searching those areas. What did the markers find? To me, it isn't clear whether all of the little bone fragments were retrieved from the incinerator, or whether some were found in the field. I doubt if they will be calling Dr. Rogers back to the stand again, so I am thinking that all of her evidence testimony has already been given. Was it even mentioned whether the bones/fragments were sent off to CFS for DNA analysis? Also, no mention of the blood reportedly found on the incinerator; with Dr. Roger's examination, wouldn't that have been found at that time, and if so, why wasn't it mentioned today?