Found Deceased WA - Cheryl DeBoer, 54, Mountlake Terrace, 8 February 2016 #8

[U2forever]

Don't you remember being a child and being told to not put plastic bags on your head, or having children and knowing that you needed to tie plastic bags and put them out of reach of children to prevent them from putting the bags on their heads?

What I find odd is the choice of a drainage ditch for suicide.

BBM:

Thanks Otto, you beat me to it.

Maybe the drainage ditch was chosen because it's the last place to look? JMO

 

[Treelights]

Don't you remember being a child and being told to not put plastic bags on your head, or having children and knowing that you needed to tie plastic bags and put them out of reach of children to prevent them from putting the bags on their heads?

What I find odd is the choice of a drainage ditch for suicide.

Exactly!! Safety with plastic bags. This was a BIG thing when I was growing up, the knowledge about how children could suffocate with plastic bags.

 

[Treelights]

BBM:

Thanks Otto, you beat me to it.

Maybe the drainage ditch was chosen because it's the last place to look? JMO

For my thought process, the culvert would not be a last place to look, as it is relatively close to her house and car.
I say that because I am a hiker and walker and I read Cheryl was a hiker, too.

It was the last place to look because that was where they found her, the last place they looked, but otherwise, if she did not want to be found,
why not go elsewhere? Farther away?

IMOO.

 

[otto]

BBM:

Thanks Otto, you beat me to it.

Maybe the drainage ditch was chosen because it's the last place to look? JMO

It's possible that this area of the creek is familiar to Cheryl - and then it makes sense, especially if she went into the water slightly upstream of the East end of the culvert.

 

[ANZAC]

It's possible that this area of the creek is familiar to Cheryl - and then it makes sense, especially if she went into the water slightly upstream of the East end of the culvert.

This does make sense -- actually either would make sense to me a) she went in upstream, and the body made it down stream to where the culvert turns b) she went directly into the culvert because it was covered. Having walked over a mile from the car -- she just needed to find someone relatively secluded where no one would be able to stop her or revive her. The missing phone/wallet is also consistent with that. It is very sad imagining someone in that mindset.

 

[ANZAC]

Hard to say as there's information from press releases, and there's information from direct observation by reporters.

As media goes, David Rose is pretty credible. I think what is not known is whether the zip tie is relevant to the case, or was just part of trash nearby. We find all kinds of trash when we do searches like this.... tire irons, appliances, bottles and cans, needles, used condoms, we even found an (unrelated) pipe bomb once.

 

[U2forever]

For my thought process, the culvert would not be a last place to look, as it is relatively close to her house and car.
I say that because I am a hiker and walker and I read Cheryl was a hiker, too.

It was the last place to look because that was where they found her, the last place they looked, but otherwise, if she did not want to be found,
why not go elsewhere? Farther away?

IMOO.

Treelights, you bring up very good points. I wish we had the answer. As for myself, I would never even consider suicide outdoors and before my disabilities, I was very active outdoors. My ideal location was a hotel or my house and everything had to be in order with nothing out of place.
Notes, I always left notes.

ETA:

Originally posted by Otto,
It's possible that this area of the creek is familiar to Cheryl - and then it makes sense, especially if she went into the water slightly upstream of the East end of the culvert.

Otto, I missed this post and it makes a lot of sense.

 

[jennapuppy]

As media goes, David Rose is pretty credible. I think what is not known is whether the zip tie is relevant to the case, or was just part of trash nearby. We find all kinds of trash when we do searches like this.... tire irons, appliances, bottles and cans, needles, used condoms, we even found an (unrelated) pipe bomb once.

Have you ever come across cases where suicide victims used restraints on themselves? The reason I ask is because of the Rebecca Zahau case. LE determined that she gagged herself and bound her wrists and ankles with ropes before jumping off a balcony to hang herself, so that she wouldn't be tempted to cry for help or free herself. Is that something that you've ever seen, and is it possible that Cheryl brought zip ties for that purpose but decided against using them?

I'm inclined to think that LE tested a variety of things that they determined weren't related to the crime, including the zip ties, but the use of restraints in a possible suicide is something I've wondered about since LE determined it was proof of suicide in the Zahau case.

 

[TeaTime]

First off, there's no "CSI" here. There are detectives, officers/deputies, SAR, ME attendants, ME doctors, sometimes an "evidence tech" (rare).

Something like a zip tie would be located (by SAR if further from the body, or LE if closer), documented (by LE), collected (probably by detectives unless somewhere they needed SAR to access).

It is also possible the zip tie was complete and unused or complete and in a loop. It could have been located in the general vicinity. Like I said, a lot of flotsam and jetsam is collected if thought it MIGHT be relevant, and then tested later.

We do distinguish between "old" and "new" trash, so a years old bottle with a faded label would not be collected, but something that could possibly be contemporary with the disappearance up until now would be collected.

Second off, all of the folks you mentioned are part of the crime scene investigation unless you are writing of a particular subset of people in the police department, which I was not. Or maybe you were just thinking of a tv show, which I was not. Perhaps I should write out 'everyone at the scene or who came upon the scene at any time and who were watching, observing, collecting evidence of any sort or performing any and all sorts of searching or investigation for any reason whatsoever' to be more clear. I chose CSI - shoot me.

Third, as I stated "if there was a zip tie associated with this crime" not "if there was a zip tie collected in the general area" which would exclude meaningless flotsam and road side trash. "If there was" are the operative words as we are not sure that any zip tie was collected much less one connected to the crime. This is all a hypothet based on a post by a reporter which was later removed. We all know that there can be meaningless garbage around any crime scene, I wasn't writing about miscellaneous trash but about a specific zip tie in a specific situation.

Fourth and perhaps lastly, I was writing of a particular scenario which assumes a zip tie was used in the crime of murder, specifically addressing the 'used at the elbows' discussion and the fact that if it wasn't still on the body it would have to have been cut off, the cut would be obvious and perhaps the razor blade comes into play in the crime. This was not a discussion about garbage, new or old, but rather an obvious bit of alleged physical evidence connected to the specific crime of murder.

 

[jpo74]

I was at a BBQ tonight talking with friend about this case because she wasn't familiar with it. I said to her something to the effect of " it seems so unlikely that someone could kill themselves by placing a bag over their head with no drugs or sedation" and my friend replied, " that's how my grandma killed herself, just put a bag over her head until she stopped breathing". I said "no Valium, Benadryl anything?" And she said, "nope, she just wanted to die because she had been diagnosed with Alzheimer's and didn't want to go into a nursing home so she just asphyxiated herself". I was kind of in shock but I guess people do use that method.

Whoa! im on the fence, but that story is just, wow! did police check CD drs to see if she was suffering from an illness where she would take her life? im not saying she did, still on fence, but im leaning toward suicde.

 

[Mistree]

slightly off topic , but there is a young man out of Michigan missing and sadly it is evident why.
I read page 10 of his book and found this helpful if applied to Cheryl's case.
Although disturbing , the specifics he details of the "thrashing around" makes me wonder if true, why no bruises on Cheryl?

 

[kammiemc]

slightly off topic , but there is a young man out of Michigan missing and sadly it is evident why.
I read page 10 of his book and found this helpful if applied to Cheryl's case.
Although disturbing , the specifics he details of the "thrashing around" makes me wonder if true, why no bruises on Cheryl?

Is the connection between CD and this guy that he committed suicide by placing a plastic bag over his head--and then in that process, thrashed around?

I have no clue if that is a normal part of the process using a plastic bag, but I am guessing not in the cases where it is used to make someone pass out.

But since Cheryl was found in water, seems very possible that any thrashing wouldn't cause bruises. IMO.

 

[Mistree]

Is the connection between CD and this guy that he committed suicide by placing a plastic bag over his head--and then in that process, thrashed around?

I have no clue if that is a normal part of the process using a plastic bag, but I am guessing not in the cases where it is used to make someone pass out.

But since Cheryl was found in water, seems very possible that any thrashing wouldn't cause bruises. IMO.

You could very well be right.
Until Cheryl's case I had never even heard of this.
One thing I am curious about though, does anyone know if Cheryl was found face up, or face down?

 

[pinklilies]

You could very well be right.
Until Cheryl's case I had never even heard of this.
One thing I am curious about though, does anyone know if Cheryl was found face up, or face down?

http://mltnews.com/mlt-police-chief-shares-some-details-of-cheryl-deboer-investigation/

DeBoer’s body was found lying face down in a culvert near the intersection of Cedar Way and 244th Street Southwest with a bag loosely secured over her head. It was a take-out bag from a fast food restaurant she frequented, Wilson said.

 

[jennapuppy]

Is the connection between CD and this guy that he committed suicide by placing a plastic bag over his head--and then in that process, thrashed around?

I have no clue if that is a normal part of the process using a plastic bag, but I am guessing not in the cases where it is used to make someone pass out.

But since Cheryl was found in water, seems very possible that any thrashing wouldn't cause bruises. IMO.

I looked this up. Here's his thread, for those who are interested:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...gan-Cochrane-MSU-student-Lansing-9-April-2016

 

[margarita25]

I was at a BBQ tonight talking with friend about this case because she wasn't familiar with it. I said to her something to the effect of " it seems so unlikely that someone could kill themselves by placing a bag over their head with no drugs or sedation" and my friend replied, " that's how my grandma killed herself, just put a bag over her head until she stopped breathing". I said "no Valium, Benadryl anything?" And she said, "nope, she just wanted to die because she had been diagnosed with Alzheimer's and didn't want to go into a nursing home so she just asphyxiated herself". I was kind of in shock but I guess people do use that method.

Wow...

 

[krig101]

I looked this up. Here's his thread, for those who are interested:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...gan-Cochrane-MSU-student-Lansing-9-April-2016

Thank you for the link. WOW this is sort of local to me, first I've heard about it! Just awful.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

 

[otto]

I looked this up. Here's his thread, for those who are interested:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...gan-Cochrane-MSU-student-Lansing-9-April-2016

The Apr 10 news article is that he has not been found - so who is the person who committed suicide with a bag and thrashed around?

 

[krig101]

The Apr 10 news article is that he has not been found - so who is the person who committed suicide with a bag and thrashed around?

Same guy. He wrote a book explaining how he will commit suicide.

Chapter 10, or page 273

https://reasonabledeath.wordpress.com/book/

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

 

[Mistree]

http://mltnews.com/mlt-police-chief-shares-some-details-of-cheryl-deboer-investigation/

DeBoer’s body was found lying face down in a culvert near the intersection of Cedar Way and 244th Street Southwest with a bag loosely secured over her head. It was a take-out bag from a fast food restaurant she frequented, Wilson said.

Thank you for this.
I remember visiting the topic of male vs. Female and how each relates to the center of gravity in drownings in the Dermond case.
Females (including Shirley who was originally weighted down) ,
Was still found face up.
I find it odd that Cheryl was face down.