Sentencing and beyond- JA General Discussion #7

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I know, right? I guess it speaks to her BPD that she apparently thought she was *winning* when in reality most people were appalled by her, just as Travis' friends were, after first giving her the benefit of the doubt.

Also, the talk about ALV providing a report or not prompted me to revisit some sites. Again, cognitive dissonance????

http://kristinarandle.com/blog/alyc...-we-are-still-not-buying-what-she-is-selling/


I think you guys have solved a puzzle here! So Jodi goes on these news shows like 48 Hours and proclaims, "No jury will ever convict me" because she's confident of the pedo letters she just forged. Only Matt M gives the wrong date/year, so she goes pro per to talk to him/straighten it out. That's why the coded magazine messages to him. She really thought she'd sink Travis's reputation further, his family would let her plea to 2nd degree and she'd walk away with time served!
 
I think you guys have solved a puzzle here! So Jodi goes on these news shows like 48 Hours and proclaims, "No jury will ever convict me" because she's confident of the pedo letters she just forged. Only Matt M gives the wrong date/year, so she goes pro per to talk to him/straighten it out. That's why the coded magazine messages to him. She really thought she'd sink Travis's reputation further, his family would let her plea to 2nd degree and she'd walk away with time served!


FWIW. The 48 Hours interview aired June 23, 2009. Not sure when it was actually filmed. The 's magazine code referred to an interview that went well, but the magazines were dated late July and early August and intercepted August 4.

The index cards she was using to practice forging TA's handwriting were seized several weeks earlier than JM's August 4 visit.

I think she was referring to content in one of the letters that MM had gotten wrong, not the date.
 
Nurmi on the DT witness interview memos turned over to JM in 2009 by Maria Schaffer:


“These memos could have remained confidential. Attorney-client privilege would protect them from the State getting hold pf them. In fact, the only way the State could obtain these memos was if the choice was made by (’s) lawyer to disclose them to the State. In my opinion there were way too many harmful statements about (the ) in these memos to make their disclosure to the State a wise move. I would have kept them confidential. However, that was just my thinking (which didn’t count til August 2009), and by then it was too late (to prevent them being turned over).

Why did her former counsel do this? I do not know. Do I hold it against her or think it was stupid of her to do it? No, that is not what I am saying. I am simply saying I would not have done it. But, it was done, and now it was my job to deal with it.”
 
FWIW. The 48 Hours interview aired June 23, 2009. Not sure when it was actually filmed. The 's magazine code referred to an interview that went well, but the magazines were dated late July and early August and intercepted August 4.

The index cards she was using to practice forging TA's handwriting were seized several weeks earlier than JM's August 4 visit.

I think she was referring to content in one of the letters that MM had gotten wrong, not the date.


Sorry to jump off my own post, but date glitched. The 48 Hours interview was a full year (June, 2009) before the pedo letters were emailed to Nurmi (April, 2010).

I don't think she wrote the letters until after she dropped the ninja story, after she began thinking about manufacturing a self-defense story, and after she had been interviewed and tested by Samuels.
 
I think you guys have solved a puzzle here! So Jodi goes on these news shows like 48 Hours and proclaims, "No jury will ever convict me" because she's confident of the pedo letters she just forged. Only Matt M gives the wrong date/year, so she goes pro per to talk to him/straighten it out. That's why the coded magazine messages to him. She really thought she'd sink Travis's reputation further, his family would let her plea to 2nd degree and she'd walk away with time served!

LinasK,

The relevant video I posted was from Inside Edition in 2008, not 48 hours. Where she infamously states, "No jury will ever convict me". Matt M is a part of the puzzle, for sure but he has ****** up in some way. She details that is contradicts what she has been saying since 2008. Yet that could itself be a coded reference, such is her deviousness. The reason the 2008 video is pertinent as that statement came before the emergence of the pedo forgeries in 2010 and not long after the murder.
 
Sorry to jump off my own post, but date glitched. The 48 Hours interview was a full year (June, 2009) before the pedo letters were emailed to Nurmi (April, 2010).

I don't think she wrote the letters until after she dropped the ninja story, after she began thinking about manufacturing a self-defense story, and after she had been interviewed and tested by Samuels.

The video I posted was from Inside Edition in 2008 - it states so on it. I think she may have conceived or started the letters as early as before her arrest. Like the sex tape, it was perhaps part of her store of lies to pull out if needed in future. She fabricated journal entries before her arrest and had time to cook up other plans. It seems to me that the supreme over confidence of "No jury will ever convict me" is based on something she thinks is a certainty. She is stupid enough to think she could pull the forgeries off.
 
Sorry, my bad. I think it was someone else who used to be on this thread who had an Asian user-name. My apologies...


No problem. At least you have the right vehicle.....
 
"No jury will ever convict me" and "You can mark my words on that one" - from Inside Edition in 2008 not 48 Hours.

[video=youtube;jaSD8tfbYlU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jaSD8tfbYlU[/video]
 
GigiG - I read the blog on ALV. Thanks for posting. A lot if other interesting pieces there.
 
I think you guys have solved a puzzle here! So Jodi goes on these news shows like 48 Hours and proclaims, "No jury will ever convict me" because she's confident of the pedo letters she just forged. Only Matt M gives the wrong date/year, so she goes pro per to talk to him/straighten it out. That's why the coded magazine messages to him. She really thought she'd sink Travis's reputation further, his family would let her plea to 2nd degree and she'd walk away with time served!

Yep! MM wrote "2007" when in fact the correct date needed to be "2008" and he had to fix this ASAP as it contraindicated her prior date on interview. Hard to keep her lies straight- harder yet for her "tools" (MM).
I think MM realized he too was being played and got out. He posted on FB way back when that he has.a wife and family now and after that post went incognito. He probably figured out how appalling she was when she planned to use him and his roommate for some sort of alibi as she stayed at his house 6/2-3/08 and they went to a karaoke bar (where of course Ms Einstein stated she sang much better than anyone there). Another BPD trait -arrogance.
 
BBM:
Just popped onto this thread & saw these questions: my response is based on my own experience with "expert witnesses" and trials, may or may not be applicable to ALV BUT....food for thought!
Without a formal, written report.....your words on the stand can be flexible to the questions of a lawyer, the opposite side's expert witness can't do proactive research or duplicate test results nor can he/she assist other lawyer with probing, specific questions. There is another "default" that some expert witnesses can use: that the information detailed in a hard copy report can be protected by HIPAA.
Regarding access to ALV's notes: there's a possibility/probability that those "notes" if even prepared on hard copy, would be considered "work product" and/or confidential patient data, assuming that ALV is a recognized, licensed/certified healthcare provider. IIRC, ALV gave a summary statement to the prosecution, a statement that gave generalized social interactive type behavior (i.e. ALV's opinion that JA was "abused" and that she was continually & consistently denigrated by males in her social circle. (IMHO, pfffffffft on THAT opinion!)

Makes sense to me! ALV was so shady in her testimony and even in her lack of documentation. All the killer's "expert witnesses" lacked credibility and professionalism.
ALV floored me when she denied to Juan that the killer's stalking and Travis' fear of her wasn't domestic violence. Alyce was on the wrong side of the truth throughout her entire testiphony.
 
LinasK,

The relevant video I posted was from Inside Edition in 2008, not 48 Hours. Where she infamously states, "No jury will ever convict me". Matt M is a part of the puzzle, for sure but he has ****** up in some way. She details that is contradicts what she has been saying for over a year. Yet that could itself be a coded reference, such is her deviousness. The reason the 2008 video is pertinent as that statement came before the emergence of the pedo forgeries in 2010 and not long after the murder.

Sorry, LinasK - just corrected an error in the above text. It was too late to edit so I have bolded the correction. In 2010, Arias claimed that someone (Matt M) had contradicted what she had been saying for over a year. The Inside Edition interview is from 2008. She is super confident in her claim that, "No jury will ever convict me" in 2008. We all marked her words on that. ��

So, did she start the forgeries as early as before her arrest? She has plenty of opportunity to do so then and access to Travis' handwriting in the privacy of her grandparents house. Or did she just conceive the idea after her arrest and it gave her the bravado to assert she would never be convicted? If Matt was a fellow forger, did he have access to Travis' writing? Where did he get it from? Did Arias smuggle out other handwriting examples through her mitigation 'expert'? So many possibilities.
 
The Forged Letters



1. The 2 letters ’s mother tried to peddle to the National Enquirer:

Nov. 27, 2006. Wants her to wear boys’ briefs so he can “tear them off;” for her to wear a shirt of his with cuff links so he can see his initials when she gives him oral sex.

(The shirt thing is ’s fantasy, which she texted TA about after she left Mesa, during an exchange about MySpace photos, iirc).

March 2, 2008. Admits that he hit her once in the face. Wants to marry her to erase deviant thoughts.

(Reality: that’s the day he told her to get the frick out of Yreka, and probably told her he needed to focus on marrying someone else—Mimi).


2. Excerpt from Shannon Hogan’s book: (IMO, to be taken with a grain of salt; lots of inaccuracies in her book).

Matt McCartney attended several of the open hearings on pedo letters in 2010 -2011. “He testified that the letters were real and written by Travis. I have been careful not to say MM forged anything. I have only said he was involved in getting them to her attorneys. “JM told MM that he if he testified at trial “he would have him up on perjury charges before his feet hit the ground.”

3. JM on letters: They were second generation copies. Misdeeds described too specifically. Written on unlined notebook paper. None had creases (so couldn’t have been sent in an envelope).

“(Kreitl’s opinion that they were forgeries) bolstered my belief that they were created for the sole purpose of bolstering her self-defense claim. “ Conviction. Pg. 154.

4. Nurmi says in his book that he thinks the forged them, JM says in his book that it is most likely the forged them.

5. Sheriff Joe’s folks couldn’t determine how the index cards the used to practice forgery were smuggled into jail. Neither Nurmi or JM could figure out how the had the forged letters smuggled out of Estrella.

6. The was allowed to keep trial related documents in her cell, so could have had copies of his journal and the handwritten note he sent her in April 2008, at her insistence.

7. Second generation copy. A copy of a copy. The letters were sent to Nurmi as PDF files. Does a print out of a file count as a copy of a copy? Or, could second generation refer to a letter being cut and pasted from copies of TA’s journal, for example, then photocopied?

In any case, someone other than the had to have been involved if the letters were copied even just once, given she didn’t have access to a copier while in Estrella.

8. Deborah Maran’s take on the letters, in one of her always stellar analyses: March 27. 2015. Arias and minion. On letters.

http://jodiariastrialtruth.blogspot.com/2015/03/aria-is-worse-than-some-thought.html

9. Nurmi wrote that the insisted on the ninja story from the time he came on (August 2009) through her testing and first evaluation by Dr. Samuels (December-January 2010), but that knowing the ninjas were a lie, during the same time he was laying the groundwork for another defense.

Nurmi hired Dr. Karp as a DV expert, which suggests that by the first week of February, 2010, when Karp interviewed/tested the , Nurmi and the had dropped the ninjas and taken up the lie of self-defense.

I agree with JM that the forged (with assistance) the letters after she realized she was going to have to admit that she, not the ninjas, killed Travis.

The manufactured emails while Travis was still alive, altered/added entries to previous journals and lied wholesale in journal entries from March 2008 on, and recorded Travis for whatever devious reasons.

IMO, the online record she created in April-May 2008 was largely about “proving” that Travis was still interested in her, including sexually. She continued with that theme after she she killed him, but also added backstory lies about her superior morality/spirituality, and of trying to move on, but being unable to because TA wouldn’t let her go.

She had several weeks, even after her June phone interviews with Flores, to concoct and write whatever lies she wanted to in her journals, including about physical abuse or hints about pedo. She didn’t.

And, IIRC, she never mentioned or hinted at abuse while being interrogated by Flores in Yreka. Abuse by TA was first suggested by the female detective who interrogated her, and ’s first allegations of abuse by TA were levelled after those interrogations, in the letters written and sent to TA’s family while she sat in jail, awaited extradition to Arizona.

After all, it was the very fact she hadn’t invented the lie of physical abuse before being arrested that forced the to use the ridiculous Law of Attraction excuse at trial to account for the fact she never wrote about abuse in her journals.

10. The forgeries were sent to Nurmi in April, 2010. The lied to Karp in February 2010 about being abused, and brought up the pedo lie for the first time, attaching it to the date of January 21.

The forged pedo letter was dated January 21, 2007. That date was most likely a mistake by the forger (s). In early April 2010, though, the texts the DT had were limited to those Mesa LE had retrieved from his phone sent /received over the short period before and after his murder, and the State had not yet turned over any of TA’s emails or info on his SM accounts.

The assigned dates to the 10 letters she wrote without being able to corroborate her lies with the timeline/chronology the online records would have provided.

The lied to Karp, with impunity, about when and why her finger was broken. Her lie about pedo on January 21 might well have also been excluded during the guilt phase had she not insisted on assigning that date to the forged pedo letter.
 
Yep! MM wrote "2007" when in fact the correct date needed to be "2008" and he had to fix this ASAP as it contraindicated her prior date on interview. Hard to keep her lies straight- harder yet for her "tools" (MM).
I think MM realized he too was being played and got out. He posted on FB way back when that he has.a wife and family now and after that post went incognito. He probably figured out how appalling she was when she planned to use him and his roommate for some sort of alibi as she stayed at his house 6/2-3/08 and they went to a karaoke bar (where of course Ms Einstein stated she sang much better than anyone there). Another BPD trait -arrogance.

The pedo letters were sent in April 2010. The coded magazines were intercepted on August 4, 2011. In between those times, the DT, JM, handwriting experts for both the State and the DT had analyzed the letters, as had Judge Duncan, and the letters had been the subject of numerous motions and hearings.

I think it is impossible that the discrepancy in dates hadn't been pointed out to MM well before August 2011.
 
Sorry, LinasK - just corrected an error in the above text. It was too late to edit so I have bolded the correction. In 2010, Arias claimed that someone (Matt M) had contradicted what she had been saying for over a year. The Inside Edition interview is from 2008. She is super confident in her claim that, "No jury will ever convict me" in 2008. We all marked her words on that. ��

So, did she start the forgeries as early as before her arrest? She has plenty of opportunity to do so then and access to Travis' handwriting in the privacy of her grandparents house. Or did she just conceive the idea after her arrest and it gave her the bravado to assert she would never be convicted? If Matt was a fellow forger, did he have access to Travis' writing? Where did he get it from? Did Arias smuggle out other handwriting examples through her mitigation 'expert'? So many possibilities.


I don't think the needed the pedo lie or forged letters or lies about abuse or any other thing to make her feel 100% confident she would never be convicted. As trial watchers, reporters, TA friends and both JM and Nurmi have noted , her arrogance is such that she never questions her ability to make anyone believe anything
 
The pedo letters were sent in April 2010. The coded magazines were intercepted on August 4, 2011. In between those times, the DT, JM, handwriting experts for both the State and the DT had analyzed the letters, as had Judge Duncan, and the letters had been the subject of numerous motions and hearings.

I think it is impossible that the discrepancy in dates hadn't been pointed out to MM well before August 2011.

We've seen that it takes months for documents to be reviewed, motions to be made, experts to be reached and more time for them to get the documents, review them and months to write and file the reports. Look how long it took for the case to go to trial! The waived her right to a speedy trial not to mention several changes in counsel and then the clock starts all over again. The possibility exists that it took 15 months.
Who else could those messages be directed to? There were no lay witnesses other than DB, & MM. Or GS? It couldn't be one of her felon friends as they can't visit her due to their own restrictions.
 
Caylee Advocate said:
No fair Niner, I still need a hug. I am happy I could make you laugh. Big Hugs to you sweetie!!!

LOL! okay than :hug: for you!! And :tyou: for yours!

Caylee Advocate said:
A little early but I do hope Juan has a wonderful birthday tomorrow.
okay - since it IS the day....

:confetti: Happy Birthday Mr. Martinez!! :juanettes:
Boy hs is a bit older than I thought he was...

okay - running late - will be back later and read the rest of all your great posts!
 
We've seen that it takes months for documents to be reviewed, motions to be made, experts to be reached and more time for them to get the documents, review them and months to write and file the reports. Look how long it took for the case to go to trial! The waived her right to a speedy trial not to mention several changes in counsel and then the clock starts all over again. The possibility exists that it took 15 months.
Who else could those messages be directed to? There were no lay witnesses other than DB, & MM. Or GS? It couldn't be one of her felon friends as they can't visit her due to their own restrictions.


I'm sure the magazines and message were intended for MM, and clearly he had told her DT something that contradicted what she had been saying since July-August 2010.

The August 8, 2011 evidentiary hearing was to be about the letters and only the letters, and MM was apparently set to testify. About the letters.

Nurmi wrote in his book that he went into that hearing intending to drop his opposition to JM's motion to keep the letters out, but was ambushed by the 's move to go pro per.

If Nurmi is being factual about his sudden willingness to drop the letters, me thinks it resulted from knowing his client was trying to tamper with MM's testimony... a bridge too far.

My point is I don't believe the problem the saw in July 2011 was the 2007 date on the pedo letter, a mistake that JM writes he observed early on.
 
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