Oscar Pistorius - Sentencing - 7.6.2016

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I beg your pardon? I've read 5 or 6 SCA Culpable Homicide and Murder decisions, they were very consistent in sentencing, it was repetitive; Murder was consistently 25 years. Also, it is only since new legislation that parole eligibility was reduced from 75% time served to 50% time served. Liberal beliefs are changing SA penal programs.

With this being perhaps the nation's most high profile murder case in recent memory I did expect Masipa to be hard in sentencing and 25 years was a possibility, as much of a possibility as 6, 7, 10, 12, 17, etc... Until the sentence was actually handed down all guesses were just that, guesses.

BIB I think that's something has been lost in translation here.

We've probably been reading about different cases eg. when I was reading about cases like Combrink and Oliveira you were reading other ones
http://www.saflii.org/za/cases/ZASCA/2011/116.html

It's probably within the realm of fantasy( ie not realistic) but a re-trial might have resolved the whole thing and got a more accurate conviction of DD of Reeva.

Remember the Nick & Lisa Skype interview with the US prosector ( now crime correspondent) Bath Karas? In there she says, in response to Nick on the pre-med aspects of the case - OP having the Black talons, getting the gun, proceeding to the door ready to shoot - it was never going to be enough to argue pre-med in real world prosecution . ( Then Nick talks about "post-meditation etc. I don't have the link, now but it's on their Shakedown site. )
 
Interesting extract from the SCA judgement ( S v Malgas) which details sentencing procedures and to which Masipa refers.

It signals that it has deliberately and advisedly left it to the courts to decide in the final analysis whether the circumstances of any particular case call for a departure from the prescribed sentence. In doing so, they are required to regard the prescribed sentences as being generally appropriate for crimes of the kind specified and enjoined not to depart from them unless they are satisfied that there is weighty justification for doing so. A departure must be justified by reference to circumstances which can be seen to be substantial and compelling as contrasted with circumstances of little significance or of debatable validity or which reflect a purely personal preference unlikely to be shared by many.

Note the last sentence.

I think it safe to say not many by a long way agree with her preferences

Good point. I think we could now start a rolling list of objections/potential grounds of appeal:

1. No substantial or compelling circumstances to justify deviating from 15.
2. Masipa was incorrect to find remorse, given P's dishonesty, (Seegers).
3. Masipa incorrectly prioritised rehabilitation over retribution and deterrence, (Swart).
4. Even on his own case, P was remorseful only for murdering the wrong person.
5. No explanation given as to how Masipa got to 6 years.
6. Did P lie to Prof Scholtz to get a lighter sentence? (Aggravating).
7. How can it be correct to reduce sentence in order to fulfil duty to correct public opinion? Where is the authority for this duty?
8. Departed from 15, due to personal preference unlikely to be shared by many, (Malgas).
9. Sentence does not reflect that the crime was close to dolus directus.
10. Inappropriate reference to loss of peace of mind, loss of career, 'fallen hero' etc.

Any others to be added?
 
It concerns me that Masipa's extraordinary not guilty verdict on the charge of illegal possession of ammunition went uncontested.
Surely this has set an extremely dangerous precedent, yet it seems to have been swept under the carpet.

Didn't Nel request leave to appeal it and she denied it? Or am I imagining that?
 
OK thanks for the clarification! So 20 years for Murder, DE.

This is what wikipedia says
"On 8 March 2010[1] he and his friend Themba Tshabalala caused a serious accident when they were drag racing under the influence of hard drugs on a public road near a school.[2] Four children were killed and another two survived with brain damage.[2] On 5 December 2012, both were sentenced to 25 years in jail each for murder, attempted murder and three related offences.[1]

An appeal will be heard on 7 February 2014.[1] On 8 October 2014 Jub Jub and his friend Themba Tshabalala's murder conviction was overturned to culpable homicide in a high court in Johannesburg.[3] Their sentences were reduced from 25 years to 10 years, starting from 2012, leaving them with 6 years left of their sentences."
 
This is what wikipedia says
"On 8 March 2010[1] he and his friend Themba Tshabalala caused a serious accident when they were drag racing under the influence of hard drugs on a public road near a school.[2] Four children were killed and another two survived with brain damage.[2] On 5 December 2012, both were sentenced to 25 years in jail each for murder, attempted murder and three related offences.[1]

An appeal will be heard on 7 February 2014.[1] On 8 October 2014 Jub Jub and his friend Themba Tshabalala's murder conviction was overturned to culpable homicide in a high court in Johannesburg.[3] Their sentences were reduced from 25 years to 10 years, starting from 2012, leaving them with 6 years left of their sentences."

Why so much confusion? The previous link was clear, this one is muttled (no offence to you, of course). The Murder DE sentence was 20 years, additional years were added for other charges, so the total is larger.
 
Why so much confusion? The previous link was clear, this one is muttled (no offence to you, of course). The Murder DE sentence was 20 years, additional years were added for other charges, so the total is larger.

I haven't opened the previous link, well I haven't read about that case since last year. What do you reckon to the appeal reduction though? It's a big reduction isn't it.
 
Lol. Of course she's grateful to Masipa, and of course she's going to say it was a terrible accident. Is anyone in that family genuine?

I've just watched the opening lines where she is talking about Reeva's personal qualities.
Is there anyone not sickened by this?

Why is she speaking to the media now? Part and parcel of a pre-arranged deal with ENCA?

Did you notice that as soon as the judgement was delivered K.Maughan did not tweet nor retweet anything about the case from July 6th onwards. Hmmmmm
 
I have no idea! :smile: I just know there are four dead school children and at least two other kids with brain damage and yet the SCA sees 10 years as adequate retribution.

The reason for the downgrading of Jub Jub’s” murder conviction to one of culpable homicide:

“On appeal‚ the full bench of the high court found that the application of dolus eventualis in instances involving the driving of motor vehicles had been controversial.

Dolus eventualis means that an accused who foresees that someone may be killed‚ reconciles himself with that possibility and proceeds with his action‚ is guilty of murder.

“The matter before us is one of the cases in which the prosecution authorities decided to indict the appellants for murder based on dolus eventualis‚” the bench remarked.

The full bench said as there was evidence that the two had taken drugs‚ there could be no suggestion that Maarohanye and Tshabalala had the foresight that their escapade could result in death and serious injury to pedestrians and reconciled themselves with that eventuality.

“Their mental makeup must therefore have been the opposite of causing death or injury‚ their disposition was that no collision‚ let alone life threatening‚ would take place.”

http://www.timeslive.co.za/local/2016/07/06/Major-difference-in-cases-of-Oscar-and-‘Jub-Jub’
 
I've just watched the opening lines where she is talking about Reeva's personal qualities.
Is there anyone not sickened by this?

Why is she speaking to the media now? Part and parcel of a pre-arranged deal with ENCA?

Did you notice that as soon as the judgement was delivered K.Maughan did not tweet nor retweet anything about the case from July 6th onwards. Hmmmmm
BIB - I doubt most of here are not sickened by it. Fake fake fake. Stealing Reeva's bag from the crime scene kind of disqualifies her from gushing about her qualities when she barely knew her. Had they met more than once?
 
I haven't opened the previous link, well I haven't read about that case since last year. What do you reckon to the appeal reduction though? It's a big reduction isn't it.

Essentially it's the reverse of the Pistorius case. Convictions for murder reduced to CH on appeal, whereas OP was upgraded from CH to murder on appeal.
His sentence makes no sense in this context.
 
The reason for the downgrading of Jub Jub’s” murder conviction to one of culpable homicide:

“On appeal‚ the full bench of the high court found that the application of dolus eventualis in instances involving the driving of motor vehicles had been controversial.

Dolus eventualis means that an accused who foresees that someone may be killed‚ reconciles himself with that possibility and proceeds with his action‚ is guilty of murder.

“The matter before us is one of the cases in which the prosecution authorities decided to indict the appellants for murder based on dolus eventualis‚” the bench remarked.

The full bench said as there was evidence that the two had taken drugs‚ there could be no suggestion that Maarohanye and Tshabalala had the foresight that their escapade could result in death and serious injury to pedestrians and reconciled themselves with that eventuality.

“Their mental makeup must therefore have been the opposite of causing death or injury‚ their disposition was that no collision‚ let alone life threatening‚ would take place.”

http://www.timeslive.co.za/local/2016/07/06/Major-difference-in-cases-of-Oscar-and-‘Jub-Jub’
BIB - those blood tests of OP's that magically disappeared, I wonder had those not disappeared and had proved he'd taken something and was mentally compromised at the time of the murder, if he'd also have been judged not to have been able to predict he'd kill Reeva. If so, I bet he's kicking himself now for making sure the evidence went bye bye. Mind you, was the alcohol reading taken something like 8 hours after the murder, enough time to ensure that at least 8 units had metabolised?
 
The reason for the downgrading of Jub Jub’s” murder conviction to one of culpable homicide:

“On appeal‚ the full bench of the high court found that the application of dolus eventualis in instances involving the driving of motor vehicles had been controversial.

Dolus eventualis means that an accused who foresees that someone may be killed‚ reconciles himself with that possibility and proceeds with his action‚ is guilty of murder.

“The matter before us is one of the cases in which the prosecution authorities decided to indict the appellants for murder based on dolus eventualis‚” the bench remarked.

The full bench said as there was evidence that the two had taken drugs‚ there could be no suggestion that Maarohanye and Tshabalala had the foresight that their escapade could result in death and serious injury to pedestrians and reconciled themselves with that eventuality.

“Their mental makeup must therefore have been the opposite of causing death or injury‚ their disposition was that no collision‚ let alone life threatening‚ would take place.”

http://www.timeslive.co.za/local/2016/07/06/Major-difference-in-cases-of-Oscar-and-‘Jub-Jub’

The dichotomy is mind boggling!
Thank you for sharing...
#LongerThanOscarsSentence

#NoJusticeForReeva
:rose:


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Didn't Nel request leave to appeal it and she denied it? Or am I imagining that?

She may have denied leave on one of the other charges, but I don't think they asked to appeal the ammo charge. IMBW, but I'm sure I remember feeling shocked that it had been omitted.
 
So much wrong with this article.... Eg

The opening paragraph doesn't appear to mention that most legal experts have interpreted the sentence as a minimum of three years in prison, (presumably followed by parole/CS rather than 'freedom')

The next point re stealing a phone before killing his girlfriend would have resulted in a longer sentence is unclear, but serves as a dramatic comparison point to emphasise the writer's disapproval re the current sentence. The writer seems also to take issue with the idea of anyone (or perhaps just Pistorius) living in comfort under house arrest. Is it her belief then that people should only be eligible for house arrest if the place they are to stay is uncomfortable/poor, (so house arrest is not for richer inmates?!)

Pretty sure he hasn't said 'his public needs him'. The writer criticises him for daring to say he would like to think Reeva wouldn't want him in prison long term, then suggests herself what Reeva is more likely to want/say. She does the very thing Pistorius is criticised for doing: presuming to know what Reeva would 'more likely' think.

The usual opinions then follow, using the more definite 'is' and 'was' rather than verbs more reflective of an opinion: 'seems' 'appeared'. This, coupled with the emotive repetition of 'unlike...', contrasting Pistorius's perceived suffering/ruin with the profound loss of Reeva and her family, as if to suggest Masipa didn't care/consider the Steenkamps' loss. (despite actually spelling out the impact on the family, their close bond with their daughter etc)

The following paragraph than calls for him to be haunted(!!) (no RIP for Reeva here then), before labelling tears as 'crocodile', vomiting as 'attention seeking' and remorse as 'pseudo', with no explanation of why she believes this to be the case.

Dangerous claims shortly follow: addicted to guns? Violent? prone to abusing partners? Where was evidence to that effect tested in a court of law? Swallowing down and regurgitating untried media gossip is not an especially balanced approach.

Finally the claim that had this been a black man or a woman who had killed a partner in such circumstances, both would have been given mandatory life sentence. Again, nothing concrete to support this claim, just the certainty of opinion. Where is the list of cases of black men and women deemed to have killed their partner under the mistaken belief they were being attacked by someone else, serving these mandatory life sentences? Interestingly though , in comparison with this particular case, Mdunge is a black man who was allowed to plead CH when he shot and killed his wife thinking she was an intruder. Wholly suspended sentence.

IMO, this kind of article embodies much of what has been wrong about the media coverage of this whole trial process.

The Defence didn't object to the Trial being televised- , they could have , but they didn't
Infact Roux ended up using it as a factor when he talked about the Media Coverage and that the trial was televised in Sentencing Arguments, thinking he could have it both ways, how hypocritical. Just another clutching at straws reason to gain sympathy for Pistorius, along with the very timely ITV Interview of Pistorius blubbering being aired before Judge Masipa gave Sentencing on 6 July, which attracted much criticism.
 
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