TX - 'Lori Ruff', Longview, WhtFem UP9863, *General Discussion and Theories* #5

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Katinka said:
That's my assumption. He called in on Friday and drove to Bakersfield on Monday to pick up both documents.
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I'm really wondering how common it would be for a non-lawyer to request Bypass Trust paperwork from the county recorders office? A family member should already have copies right? A lawyer, however, could have valid reasons to get them and to get a BC at the same time. This Bypass Trust thing could really point to lawyer involvement in the ID fraud, IMO.
 
Katinka said:
That's my assumption. He called in on Friday and drove to Bakersfield on Monday to pick up both documents.
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From Velling's Q&A: "One of the first things I did in this investigation was to contact the Kern County Clerk Recorder to see it they had a record of the application for the birth certificate. They had no records from back in 1988. There was not way to trace back to who requested the birth certificate. We do know that we had the birth certificate and the receipt for $11.00 in JANE DOE's box."

So it makes sense to me that it was FLEK who ordered/collected both documents. Why would a third party give FLEK the receipt otherwise? I'm not saying they wouldn't but it just seems weird when presumably in that scenario there was another 'customer' who might have been entitled to the receipt for the trust document?
 
Anyone on a thread with Gitana1 right now?

She is a California attorney.

Figured out how to send Gitana1 a pm inviting her expertise here.
 
sunnynz said:
From Velling's Q&A: "One of the first things I did in this investigation was to contact the Kern County Clerk Recorder to see it they had a record of the application for the birth certificate. They had no records from back in 1988. There was not way to trace back to who requested the birth certificate. We do know that we had the birth certificate and the receipt for $11.00 in JANE DOE's box."

So it makes sense to me that it was FLEK who ordered/collected both documents. Why would a third party give FLEK the receipt otherwise? I'm not saying they wouldn't but it just seems weird when presumably in that scenario there was another 'customer' who might have been entitled to the receipt for the trust document?
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From that quote, it sounds like Velling did not even notice there were two document codes on the receipt. The total was $11 and he thought that total was for the BC. Can't blame him since no one else noticed before now either....But I agree these documents have to be related. If a lawyer or identity broker ordered them, he gave the receipt for both documents to FLEK. Seems like she had to have gotten them herself. If she is not related to the people in the bypass trust, how in the world would she know anything about it, let alone get the proper ID/paperwork to request the Bypass trust?

PS: I love how everyone is focusing on this one topic right now. It's like we have all been waiting for some new info to pounce on and analyze. Good group brain-storming going on now. :)
 
How about she was a paralegal/secretary/admin assistant in Ben Perkins office, and had a hand in the till on this one?
 
BigCityAccountant said:
Yes, Gardener~~both scenario's are plausible. However, if her current name was J***ston and she told them her ID was her married name, then she would be requesting a birth certificate for her maiden name???

What that would mean though is her real first name would have to be Becky and she wouldn't be they girl I'm looking for...have you been able to dig up anything on her??? I cannot find anything~~no marriage cert, no currently living at X, no other family connections to maiden name, etc.
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Are you talking about the wife of the Arizona stockbroker who died in a plane crash in Detroit in 1987? I found her name but not much else. I got distracted by all these other sub-theories about the bypass trust.
 
Gardener1850 said:
I'm really wondering how common it would be for a non-lawyer to request Bypass Trust paperwork from the county recorders office? A family member should already have copies right? A lawyer, however, could have valid reasons to get them and to get a BC at the same time. This Bypass Trust thing could really point to lawyer involvement in the ID fraud, IMO.
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Typically, yes~~however not all the time, especially when it comes to children. Add to that a potential divorce where the kids and new spouse don't get along, then generally the spouse has the copy. Sometimes the lawyer who wrote up the trust will have a copy (think OURS with the Colorado number) but sometimes they do not keep a copy and just file it.

Here is my thinking~~dad was originally from CO, then moved to Bakersfield~~divorced parents (if mom truly was alive in TX) dad passes away sometime between 1987-1990 and FLEK goes to CA to get a copy of the trust. BUT~~why get the BST birth certificate then? Was she in trouble in CO?

Why I say 1987-1990, it is possible dad was ill and had not passed yet...
 
Gardener1850 said:
Are you talking about the wife of the Arizona stockbroker who died in a plane crash in Detroit in 1987? I found her name but not much else. I got distracted by all these other sub-theories about the bypass trust.
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YEP~~~I couldn't find anything on her...
 
Can I just commend the sharp eye that picked up on this possible lead?!! Well done!
 
BigCityAccountant said:
Typically, yes~~however not all the time, especially when it comes to children. Add to that a potential divorce where the kids and new spouse don't get along, then generally the spouse has the copy. Sometimes the lawyer who wrote up the trust will have a copy (think OURS with the Colorado number) but sometimes they do not keep a copy and just file it.

Here is my thinking~~dad was originally from CO, then moved to Bakersfield~~divorced parents (if mom truly was alive in TX) dad passes away sometime between 1987-1990 and FLEK goes to CA to get a copy of the trust. BUT~~why get the BST birth certificate then? Was she in trouble in CO?

Why I say 1987-1990, it is possible dad was ill and had not passed yet...
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Could any of those numbers from the notes page be a document number or case number instead of phone numbers? Maybe the writing was actually her mom's and when mom was sick she gave the paper to FLEK to go get the Bypass Trust? For some reason she got BST's BC too...Doesn't make much sense unless she thought she could take money out of the trust and then hide as a new Identity....hmmm....
 
48 Hours Mystery - Capture the Queen. Intriguing and interesting. About a woman who steals several identities on her own. Stays in contact with friends, etc. Check it out.

*All statements are that of my own opinion unless otherwise specified.*
 
Laughing said:
Are you suggesting a second document was picked up from Kern County??? COOL!
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It IS for 2 different docs! [emoji2] [emoji2] [emoji2] [emoji2]

*All statements are that of my own opinion unless otherwise specified.*
 
Credit must go to Katinka for finding the Kern County Website with the trust's posted there...GOOD WORK SUPERSLEUTH!

:yourock::websleuther:
 
So, should we all take a year and sleuth everyone that created a trust that year? I noticed if you click on the document number it shows who the grantee's are. The grantee is usually who the assets were given to. It may not produce anything especially if FLEK was left off the trust, but it's worth a try.
 
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