Was Burke Involved ? # 3

[DatelineFan]

But there is no proof he was not interested in other people , he was 9 years of age and there is screaming , his mother is hysterical and yet he stays in bed.

How many children would not want to comfort there parent when they are deeply upset ?


It all stinks that he didn't help his mum or dad or get out of bed as he was ordered to stay put. There is absolutely no proof that I have read he was that socially backwards at 9 years of age. And if he was this mentally backwards then I don't see the need for the cover up if he was guilty.

I think AmyPond was trying to say that being interested in his OWN toys, and interested in what OTHERS are doing, can't really be compared. She didn't say there was proof of anything

I'm not convinced he's on the spectrum, but I agree that you can't really compare the two.

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[AmyPond]

I was always in the camp of believing the Ramseys were behind JB's death, but after watching the ID episodes the past 2 nights, I now agree with Lou Smit...that it was an intruder that got in the house while they were at the Whites. I just don't see them doing this now, and it is a real shame that they have had to live with this all these years. JMO

Be sure to watch the CBS special too. I've heard it's going to be a good one.

I still can't decide what I think happened. Need to finish watching the ID stuff on my DVR though.

But there is no proof he was not interested in other people , he was 9 years of age and there is screaming , his mother is hysterical and yet he stays in bed.

How many children would not want to comfort there parent when they are deeply upset ?


It all stinks that he didn't help his mum or dad or get out of bed as he was ordered to stay put. There is absolutely no proof that I have read he was that socially backwards at 9 years of age. And if he was this mentally backwards then I don't see the need for the cover up if he was guilty.

Plenty of children don't comfort their parents when upset. Broken-record time again....children on the autism spectrum would be a perfect example. You just never know.

 

[PositiveLight]

Can it possibly be surmised though, after watching 2 episodes of DP, something is not quiet right with BR.
Whether its a spectrum issue, anxiety, nerves, sociopath, just not very normal.
guilty or not, this interview did nothing but point out that the whole situation and how it was handled back then and even now, was wrong.
BR as a adult should be concerned about why the killer has not been found.
Something off putting for me is the fact that he still answers the same questions like a 9 yr old. He never once tries to say
"well looking back I should have gotten up and checked on the situation, but back then I think I was just scared".
He never once tries to acknowledge that his actions were not normal.
I guess I had hoped to see an actual adult being interviewed. He still seems to be a 9 yr old child. It's so odd.
JMOO

 

[PositiveLight]

Does anyone else think it's a little weird that the movie Ransom came out on November 8, 1996?
[video=youtube;mebIhXK8srA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mebIhXK8srA[/video]

 

[asyousay]

Be sure to watch the CBS special too. I've heard it's going to be a good one.

I still can't decide what I think happened. Need to finish watching the ID stuff on my DVR though.



Plenty of children don't comfort their parents when upset. Broken-record time again....children on the autism spectrum would be a perfect example. You just never know.

Has he been diagnosed?

And I agree from the little I have seen of Burke he was not a typical 9 year old boy.

The golf club to his sisters head is the big give away , he clearly showed what he was capable of when he did that.


I actually feel really sorry for him as whatever happened that night ruined his life and if he did lash out in anger then you don't expect your parents to stage a fake kidnapping to cover it up.

 

[just the facts pls]

TBH I am uncomfortable assuming he has any mental illness or condition unless it's shown he has a diagnosis from an actual doctor.

 

[just the facts pls]

Has he been diagnosed?

And I agree from the little I have seen of Burke he was not a typical 9 year old boy.

The golf club to his sisters head is the big give away , he clearly showed what he was capable of when he did that.


I actually feel really sorry for him as whatever happened that night ruined his life and if he did lash out in anger then you don't expect your parents to stage a fake kidnapping to cover it up.

I know 1996 was before the days of awareness of autism, but if BDI and he was diagnosed with autism or some other mental disorder, it would have been taken into account in the court system. They are trained to deal with those kind of situations. Yes, even back then.

 

[lisette]

Quote Originally Posted by lisette View Post
I was always in the camp of believing the Ramseys were behind JB's death, but after watching the ID episodes the past 2 nights, I now agree with Lou Smit...that it was an intruder that got in the house while they were at the Whites. I just don't see them doing this now, and it is a real shame that they have had to live with this all these years. JMO


Dateline said: Really? Can you elaborate on which facts changed your mind?

ETA, also, have you ever noticed the Ramseys seeking answers? Does it strike you as odd that they seem to be over trying to find her killer?

I don't know...it's just a realization that came to me...that personally I now believe that they were not involved, and believe me, I have argued the opposite for many years.
Some of the things that got me to leaning the other way:
-the unknown boot print
-the unknown dna in her panties
-the fact that the house had been part of the Christmas tour of homes, giving access to it for anybody that might be obsessed with JB and wanting to examine the layout
-the unlimited places to hide while waiting
-time to write the note while they were at the Whites, using their pen and paper
-we all know how determined some pedophiles can be to get in houses and take children right from their beds...many cases on WS about it

I think he/they were going to take her out of the window but something happened and decided to kill her there and flee. They had already left the note on the stairs.
I don't understand about the pineapple...makes me think it could have been someone very close, that she knew and trusted.
Don't know why Burke would put himself out there like this if he had anything to do with it or knew anything about it...that would be foolish.

I don't know...it's just a feeling that I have, that they weren't involved. LE royally messed up the crime scene so we probably will never know.
And I don't know what the Ramseys have done to try to find the perp down through the years-maybe everything they could. We just don't know what they've done. There was an investigator on the ID episode that had worked for them for 18 years. Patsy was battling cancer, and that takes a lot of energy.
I don't know the truth, but that is where I've landed 20 years later.

 

[just the facts pls]

I remember reading somewhere that ligature strangulation is the favored choice of adult male perpetrators. But juveniles? This is news even to me:

As shown in Table 2, the majority of offenders (71%) were involved in homicide incidents in which the victim or victims were killed. Nearly three quarters of sample JHOs (73%) committed the homicide offense with accomplices, and nearly halfof JHOs (49%) used a firearm during the commission of the offense. Among weapons of choice, the “others” category (20% of the sample) included manual and ligature strangulation, asphyxiation, personal weapons (hands, feet, knees), and multiple weapons, in which
more than one weapon was used and it was not clear which one inflicted the fatal wounds.

Say it isn't so.

Edited to add: http://scholarcommons.usf.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=7021&context=etd

 

[DatelineFan]

I, personally, cannot imagine that Burke knew how, or could even think to penetrate a 6 year old. Especially with an object. I believe that part of the staging was absolutely an adult. I hate to think about this, and it is a bit graphic, but I doubt it's easy to penetrate a 6 year old. For a few reasons. I just don't think Burke did that part at all.

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[DatelineFan]

TBH I am uncomfortable assuming he has any mental illness or condition unless it's shown he has a diagnosis from an actual doctor.

Me, too! I've said this a lot. I don't think it's a popular position.

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[Mountain_Kat]

[/I]I don't know...it's just a realization that came to me...that personally I now believe that they were not involved, and believe me, I have argued the opposite for many years.
Some of the things that got me to leaning the other way:
-the unknown boot print
-the unknown dna in her panties
-the fact that the house had been part of the Christmas tour of homes, giving access to it for anybody that might be obsessed with JB and wanting to examine the layout
-the unlimited places to hide while waiting
-time to write the note while they were at the Whites, using their pen and paper
-we all know how determined some pedophiles can be to get in houses and take children right from their beds...many cases on WS about it

I think he/they were going to take her out of the window but something happened and decided to kill her there and flee. They had already left the note on the stairs.
I don't understand about the pineapple...makes me think it could have been someone very close, that she knew and trusted.
Don't know why Burke would put himself out there like this if he had anything to do with it or knew anything about it...that would be foolish.

I don't know...it's just a feeling that I have, that they weren't involved. LE royally messed up the crime scene so we probably will never know.
And I don't know what the Ramseys have done to try to find the perp down through the years-maybe everything they could. We just don't know what they've done. There was an investigator on the ID episode that had worked for them for 18 years. Patsy was battling cancer, and that takes a lot of energy.
I don't know the truth, but that is where I've landed 20 years later.

Okay. Do you have an explanation for how the fibers from the jacket that Patsy Ramsey wore to the White's Christmas party ended up being in the paint tote and in the knots of the cord used to make the "garrote"?

 

[DatelineFan]

Lissette, you know the "DNA" in her panties wasn't from blood or semem, right? It's not exactly relevant. And I can't imagine why someone would even bother to write a ransom note like that. ESPECIALLY if they're not going to get any money out of it.

I'm still interested in if you have seen evidence of John trying to find her killer. He's the first "innocent" parent I've followed that has never really looked for the killer of their child. Most parents who are innocent, fight for justice fervently, until their last breath.

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[Tadpole12]

I also found a post here on websleuths that Burke has only ever used a typewriter after his sister's death:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...notations on the photos from the family album

 

[PositiveLight]

[/I]I don't know...it's just a realization that came to me...that personally I now believe that they were not involved, and believe me, I have argued the opposite for many years.
Some of the things that got me to leaning the other way:
-the unknown boot print
-the unknown dna in her panties
-the fact that the house had been part of the Christmas tour of homes, giving access to it for anybody that might be obsessed with JB and wanting to examine the layout
-the unlimited places to hide while waiting
-time to write the note while they were at the Whites, using their pen and paper
-we all know how determined some pedophiles can be to get in houses and take children right from their beds...many cases on WS about it

I think he/they were going to take her out of the window but something happened and decided to kill her there and flee. They had already left the note on the stairs.
I don't understand about the pineapple...makes me think it could have been someone very close, that she knew and trusted.
Don't know why Burke would put himself out there like this if he had anything to do with it or knew anything about it...that would be foolish.

I don't know...it's just a feeling that I have, that they weren't involved. LE royally messed up the crime scene so we probably will never know.
And I don't know what the Ramseys have done to try to find the perp down through the years-maybe everything they could. We just don't know what they've done. There was an investigator on the ID episode that had worked for them for 18 years. Patsy was battling cancer, and that takes a lot of energy.
I don't know the truth, but that is where I've landed 20 years later.

Speaking of which and glad you brought this up.
I keep meaning to ask it but forget.
Is there any record of the people that went on these tours of homes?
Were they just allowed to ramble through the home or was it a guided tour?
Was it a paid for tour? Did the people on the tour pay for it or make a donation to a charity or something?
Were they allowed throughout the house or only certain areas?
Was there someone making sure there was no one going into areas they weren't allowed?
Is there a type of security detail on such tours? I mean anything could be stolen during a tour.
See what I'm getting at?
This tour thing seems dangerous all together. I wonder if any of the long time sleuths know the answers to this?
ETA: was any of the known suspects ever seen in one of the tours? Anyone recognized out of a line up for example?

 

[just the facts pls]

When I heard about the DNA, I also thought it was proof of an intruder. But then when I read that it was very degraded DNA and such a minuscule amount it could have been transferred by Patsy's hands after shaking hands with people at the party, I realized DNA doesn't always pinpoint a culprit.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

TBH I am uncomfortable assuming he has any mental illness or condition unless it's shown he has a diagnosis from an actual doctor.

Same here! And to be perfectly honest, it makes me VERY uncomfortable to read these sorts of unqualified statements/assumptions about a stranger's mental health, when even qualified professionals in the field refuse to make these kinds of statements/assumptions about people they haven't examined personally.

JMO

 

[just the facts pls]

Same here! And to be perfectly honest, it makes me VERY uncomfortable to read these sorts of unqualified statements/assumptions about a stranger's mental health, when even qualified professionals in the field refuse to make these kinds of statements/assumptions about people they haven't examined personally.

JMO

Yes I was about to say something similar. I'd like to see a diagnosis from a doctor Burke has seen and been a patient of (as opposed to an armchair "expert" hired by the media).

 

[PositiveLight]

I, personally, cannot imagine that Burke knew how, or could even think to penetrate a 6 year old. Especially with an object. I believe that part of the staging was absolutely an adult. I hate to think about this, and it is a bit graphic, but I doubt it's easy to penetrate a 6 year old. For a few reasons. I just don't think Burke did that part at all.

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I don't want to imagine it either. BUT it does happen. It was noted by family friends and housekeeper that they played doctor and when caught they told the house keeper to leave them alone.
Also add in the fact that when someone is abused they are made aware of situations and ideas that those who aren't abused would never know about. I try to keep this in mind. No one of course has confirmed they were abused. But it is a running possibility among sleuths that it could be a possible reason.

 

[DatelineFan]

Same here! And to be perfectly honest, it makes me VERY uncomfortable to read these sorts of unqualified statements/assumptions about a stranger's mental health, when even qualified professionals in the field refuse to make these kinds of statements/assumptions about people they haven't examined personally.

JMO

And a professional would certainly not speculate based on edited footage! I'm not sure if everyone realize just how edited interviews can be.

In the developmental pediatrics practice I worked in, we had daily meetings where providers would bring footage of patients to be discussed. The (raw) footage showed so many different things. Such as, the child interacting with others, trying to figure out how to play a game, interpreting other kids' social cues, etc. And they still wouldn't make a solid diagnosis off of that.

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