Was Burke Involved ? # 3

[Closet_Sleuth]

(Trying to be patient.)

For those of you who keep insisting that Burke must have gotten a train that year because he said he did, do you also believe that he received a bike that year because he said he did? Because, there was no bike. Nor was there a train set. He's mistaken. Period.

Oh...were you there?

 

[Mountain_Kat]

(sigh)

 

[HarmonyE.]

I am finding it difficult to believe or comprehend that a 9 year old is capable of premeditated murder. I guess anything is possible, but if it was BD did it i don't think it would be that he intentionally set out to kill his little sister, that would be very deviant behaviour at such a young age and there would of been other signs before JB' death to alert the parents something was very wrong with their son, IMO. If anything it could of been an on the spur of the moment horrible accident if BD pushed his sister or whatever to cause a fractured skull. But i just really don't see him doing all the other staging stuff. All JMO.

He was a few weeks from turning 10.

Just a few years earlier, two boys a few months older than Burke was at the time sexually assaulted and brutally beat to death little James Bulger in Liverpool. And just a few days ago a 10 year old boy in Florida was arrested for murdering his 2 year old cousin who died from head injuries. "The medical examiner found that her injuries could have been caused only by excessive force."

Kids this age are capable of killing - premeditated or otherwise. But it's very possible the head blow was not meant to kill her - or even hurt her very badly. Some friends of the Ramseys have said Burke had frequent outbursts of rage.

Most of us who think BDI think the death was a combination of the head blow and the subsequent parental staging to protect their surviving child and their image.

 

[FrankieB]

Wow, so the reason they filled the programs with footage and a bonus John interview is because Burke barely speaks at all. When all is done and they compile Burke's answers it will probably amount to 5 minutes, I also can't stand "COMING UP" anymore

 

[Hadiehl]

I've not posted on this forum before, but have been a long-time believer in BDI. I've just started reading Kolar's book, as Burke's interview with Dr. Phil has left me deeply unsettled. I'm not convinced JBR's initial head strike was intentional, but I absolutely believe the cover-up ensued out of a desperate desire to hide the ongoing sexual abuse.

At any rate, my query pertains to page 256 (on kindle, may be different on paper; it's the 2nd and 3rd paragraphs under the chapter "Mystery Man"), Kolar talks about the DNA found under JBR's nail clippings. He writes,
"the samples were too small to identify their biological origin, i.e blood or skin cells, and investigators came to theorize that the unknown DNA samples had been transferred from contaminated fingernail clippers used in the post-mortem examinations of other bodies processed through the morgue prior to her homicide. Investigators were able to obtain the DNA samples from eight of the autopsy examinations that preceded JBR. These samples were analyzed, but none of these matched the unknown male and female samples collected from JBR's fingernails. Perhaps more disappointing, was the fact the unknown samples lacked sufficient identifying markers that permitted their entry into the state and national DNA databases."

As I interrupt this analysis, I read that there was one male and one female set of DNA found under her fingernails that could not be identified, but which was also too small to be placed on a registry. Do you think this DNA could be cross-referenced with PR and BR? Or maybe it was, and this question is premature? I'm only 1/4 of the way through Kolar's book, and I'm hoping for the "smoking gun" that I know will never come.
Argh!!!!!

 

[Karinna]

He lived in the house. It would have been all over the place.

Including the pineapple bowl.

He liked iced tea, too. But only in the summer.

Yes of course, but specifically his dna on his sister or other objects from the crime scene?

 

[icedtea4me]

Yes of course, but specifically his dna on his sister or other objects from the crime scene?

Burke's t-DNA was reported to have been found on her pink Barbie nightgown which was found in the wine cellar.

 

[Sunshine4Me]

Yes of course, but specifically his dna on his sister or other objects from the crime scene?

Something like Burke's DNA on the blood stained nightgown that was wrapped inside the blanket with Jonbenet's body?

*The truth is out there*

 

[Latestforever]

I'm torn on that one, for sure I know it is a sign of abuse, but John's older children also wet the bed so it could be genetic. Or of course, the only common parent all those bed wetters share is John and he could have been abusing all of them I suppose. I just don't know if that is common though. Does an abuser usually choose one of several children or abuse all siblings? I honestly lean more toward their family just wets the bed for a really long time. The poop issues on the other hand scream abuse of some kind to me.

I am still getting caught up on this thread and I will admit that I do not know everything about this case, I am still learning. I do find it very interesting that all of JR children wet the bed, first I have heard of this. Didn't JBR start wetting her bed in the recent months before her murder? In other words, she was potty trained, had no problem with bed wetting and then later she began to wet the bed? I believed the parents until I really started looking at the case recently, I feel something was very very wrong in this household before JBR was murdered.

BR was very strange in these interviews. The only time I saw a look of "concern"(not grinning) was when the clip of him being interviewed as a child where he was describing how he thought someone killed JBR, the look was only for a split second, but it was there.

 

[Sunshine4Me]

Ok this is driving me crazy. This has nothing to do with the case. Does anyone know how to fix this, has it happened to anyone else? I can't see my posts but I can see my name, picture, post # and time of post, just not the text. I've updated Tapatalk and tried different keyboards. Any help is appreciated.

*The truth is out there*

 

[Hadiehl]

In addition, if JBR had scratched her own throat when she was initially strangled by her own shirt collar, prior to the head wound, would experts have been able to elimate her own DNA from her fingernail clippings? Or is it possible that the mysterious female DNA under her nails, is actually her own?

My head is spinning! Kolar clearly has his own theory/agenda of the crime, and I think he mostly got it right. There was no intruder that night. PR seemed genuinely surprised to learn of the pineapple evidence. I believe something happened between those kids while their parents were otherwise occupied that had horrific consequences.

But the most tragic and unforgivable aspect, IMO, was that the parents KNEW of an ongoing sexual assault. They tried to hide it, but it was made clear that it had begun before JBR's death. The only reason to violate a dying child in such an obscene way, would be to try to hide existing evidence. So they knew. Her mother knew. And how f*cked up is that?

PS - (and I hate discussing this when it pertains to a child) Penetration by an adult male would destroy the hymen. True JR could have only used fingers, but consider the damage a 9-year-old boy could do. I have my accusations against JR, but I just don't see him sexually abusing his 6-year-old daughter. That doesn't register for me.

If you disagree, I honestly welcome your viewpoint.

Regardless, RIP to that beautiful girl.❤️

 

[otg]

Ok this is driving me crazy. This has nothing to do with the case. Does anyone know how to fix this, has it happened to anyone else? I can't see my posts but I can see my name, picture, post # and time of post, just not the text. I've updated Tapatalk and tried different keyboards. Any help is appreciated.

*The truth is out there*

Your post (this one anyway) showed up. Are you talking about others that aren't showing up?

 

[Sunshine4Me]

Your post (this one anyway) showed up. Are you talking about others that aren't showing up?

It seems they are showing to other people as other people have clicked the "thank" button on some, it just doesn't show my text to me for some reason. I can see your reply but not what I wrote. And thank you for replying.

*The truth is out there*

 

[BBB167893]

As I interrupt this analysis, I read that there was one male and one female set of DNA found under her fingernails that could not be identified, but which was also too small to be placed on a registry. Do you think this DNA could be cross-referenced with PR and BR? Or maybe it was, and this question is premature? I'm only 1/4 of the way through Kolar's book, and I'm hoping for the "smoking gun" that I know will never come.
Argh!!!!!

If I remember correctly, there were too few markers to match it to JB or PR even if it WAS theirs.

 

[Latestforever]

My mind is not entirely made up, but I am leaning towards BDI. I'm trying not to form an opinion until I see part 3 (or have caught up to all the theories of the case) but the ransom note is nagging the back of my mind.

Burke has never read the ransom note. Other people have expressed concern about this and I agree with them. There is no reason to NOT read the ransom note, especially when your entire family has been accused of writing it.

Burke's reaction to the question about whether it's Patsy's handwriting is strange. The first thing he says is that his mother reminded him to be neater with his handwriting. Maybe because it's his handwriting?

Patsy's handwriting was never entirely ruled out. Is it because handwriting of parents and children can be similar?

http://www.ijcer.org/index.php/ojs/article/viewFile/685/299

I also found a post here on websleuths that Burke has only ever used a typewriter after his sister's death:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...handwriting-(and-Burke-s)&p=546143#post546143

If this is true - and I'm assuming that it would be since this forum has high standards of posting - all of this taken into context is very damning indeed.

I have read the ransom note quite a few times. I always found the "don't try and grow a brain" sentence to be a rather juvenile thing to say. Also how it seems to resemble a child mimicking in movies what they have seen/heard before (the Danny Devito clip). The ransom amount of 118000$ is chump change compared to the news story run about the Ramsey's making over 10 billion in sales. I don't consider it outside the realm of possibility that Burke (or even some other child) might have overheard P&JR talking about the Christmas bonus and put it in the letter.

I don't know, I'm still open minded to the possibility of an intruder because of the news stories and Patsy admitting she had hundreds of people tromping through her house in the days before Christmas. It's safe to say that the police botched the job and have only ever been fixated on Patsy to the exclusion of all other possibilities. However I really am leaning towards BDI because he admits to going downstairs and pineapple is found in JBR's stomach. I can't ignore these things.

Just my own opinion, as always.

In regards to the RN, I find it curious how there is not one marked out word, no mistakes made just sloppy handwriting. Maybe PR was telling BR exactly what to write, dictating to him.

 

[IBsleuthin]

The whole thing just makes you sit back and wonder if there will ever be an end to all of this.

 

[asyousay]

The whole thing just makes you sit back and wonder if there will ever be an end to all of this.

I don't think there will be unless Burke reveals all after Jr passes away. That's one hell of a legacy to leave behind for your son as he is not even 30 yet so he could be carrying this around for the next 40 years.

 

[IBsleuthin]

This here is a pretty good read:

http://jonbenetramsey.pbworks.com/w/page/11682514/The Cords


Could Ramseys Tie Such Knots?

No. "No evidence exists that either defendant knew how to tie such knots. (SMF P 162; PSMF P 162.)" (Carnes 2003:18).
Yes. Critics of the Carnes opinion note that John Ramsey had naval experience, that both he and Patsy were active sailors, and Burke Ramsey was in Scouts, all of which would have given them some expertise in knot-tying. Internet poster Tricia argues that the knot was a Prussik not that easily could have been tied by any of the Ramseys.

 

[Karinna]

Burke's t-DNA was reported to have been found on her pink Barbie nightgown which was found in the wine cellar.

Thanks for your reply.

 

[BBB167893]

In addition, if JBR had scratched her own throat when she was initially strangled by her own shirt collar, prior to the head wound, would experts have been able to elimate her own DNA from her fingernail clippings? Or is it possible that the mysterious female DNA under her nails, is actually her own?

It is possible, as I understand it. Then again, if she WERE scratching at her neck, wouldn't she have a lot of her DNA under there?

But the most tragic and unforgivable aspect, IMO, was that the parents KNEW of an ongoing sexual assault. They tried to hide it, but it was made clear that it had begun before JBR's death. The only reason to violate a dying child in such an obscene way, would be to try to hide existing evidence. So they knew. Her mother knew. And how f*cked up is that?

REALLY f*cked up. I've wondered if Patsy knew. If she did, she looked the other way.

PS - (and I hate discussing this when it pertains to a child) Penetration by an adult male would destroy the hymen. True JR could have only used fingers, but consider the damage a 9-year-old boy could do.

Even then, it wasn't just a one-time event. But to me, it screams of an adult, much more in control, using fingers.

I have my accusations against JR, but I just don't see him sexually abusing his 6-year-old daughter. That doesn't register for me.

If you disagree, I honestly welcome your viewpoint.

Okay. I've been convinced that it was JR doing it. I've given many reasons, but the big one is this: JonBenet was a little girl who didn't always look like a little girl. It's not unheard of for fathers to turn to daughters in event of a wife's inability or unwillingness. Stacey Lannert went through exactly that scenario. Worse, her father was given the idea from her mother's father, so the abuse was 2nd generation.

Regardless, RIP to that beautiful girl.❤️

(A clawed hand holds a crystal globe. Inside, a lovely little girl dances among falling snowflakes.) "This is how I'll always remember you: surrounded by winter, forever young...forever beautiful. Rest well, little one."