Was Burke Involved ? # 3

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If he did it I find it hard to believe that it was just an accident. He likes to play games with people. I noticed that in his interviews, both when he was a kid and now. It bothered me when he was talking about the "lack" of evidence. He had that smile on , seemed like he was teasing " hehe, prove it if you can!"
 
Hi Frigga: :) I wonder if it was mentioned on CBS (I still saved just part 2) not part 1.

But where did you read that they found ransom practice notes? Perhaps someone else will come along here by tomorrow (since i'm signing off now), and let us know about this for certain.

(ref: IIRC) :thinking:

Perhaps we'll also have new news regarding whether or not Boulder LE is going to reopen the case? Who is the AG, have those who stood in the way left and new fresh faces taken over there, I wonder is it still M. Lacey or the author of the exoneration letter ?

Hmmm.

I'm not Frigga, but I do remember seeing the evidence of one practice note. I'd never heard that there were two until this series, so I'm not sure what to think about that. But there was evidence of at least one that I'm aware of. I saw the evidence on the website ACandyRose, I believe.
 
I know realize why LW had Burke do the DrP interview... He needed Burke to have enough $$ to pay LW's legal fees to file suit against CBS!
 
Burke should hire another lawyer to sue Lin Wood for giving him fatal advice. If not for Burke's smarmy appearance on DP, I would have viewed the CBS special differently. His demeanor and mannerisms had me screaming "WTH is wrong with him!?" I only recently became aware of the GJ charges and once I read that, I knew BDI was the answer. After seeing him in his interview, I now know the reason - he is whack.

He only thinks he was nervous on DP, wait until he hears "raise your right hand, no the other one, and repeat after me . . ." and has to stare down a whole pack of unleashed lawyers.

Lin Wood did this to him. Burke had long faded form the public interest, only people like WSrs and ACR even thought about this case for the last 15 or so years. And a whole bunch of people watching DP never heard of it or are too young to remember it. Woodie flung the audience doors wide open and exposed his own client's many flaws, subjecting him to harsh criticism when most of the listening and watching world never thought he had anything to do with it at all. Now, they are suspicious.

Of course, it was nice that CBS had DP do these interviews to alert everyone to the CBS docu-series that may have otherwise gone unnoticed. SCUM I tell you, SCUM!

BBM. I agree. There's a lot of us who never followed this case, and stared unconvinced at all the tabloid headlines until BR did the interview on Dr Phil. Had he not done an interview on Dr Phil, I probably wouldn't have read about it or even given the CBS series much thought at all. LW and BR only have themselves to thank for increasing the visibility of the BDI theory, and their first reaction to sue CBS as opposed to contact BPD and getting the garrote tested says everything IMO.
 
I wonder why the successful strategy to date has been abandoned in the lead up to her anniversary? Like as suss as the Ramsay's have appeared to many people, they continued to move in the same social circles unshunned, had prosperous careers and a large majority of the general public thought the DNA exoneration was legit. Kolar's book appeared without a blip. For all intents and purposes what John and Patsy set out to achieve that night had come to pass - thee was no social or legal reality which included a family member being the culprit. They could go on pretending to be who they wanted to be.

What changed? Did CBS really force their hand? Is Burke a psychopath and has grown bored and wants some argy bargy? Is there some other evidence about to float to the surface?
 
If Burke wrote the note after striking JBR on the head, was he trying to scare his parents? Get their attention? interesting.

Hi, just to correct myself, I misremembered the amount published in the news papers - it was 1 billion and not 10 billion.

It's very possible. I think if BR wrote it, it was part of a game of pretend gone terribly wrong. There's a lot about the RN that doesn't make sense, like the writer saying that they will contact the Rs if they withdrawal the money sooner than 8am. I don't know of any bank that's open before 8am. Most adults wouldn't assume there is a bank open that early. I just did a quick search of banks in Boulder, CO and none of them open until 8:30-9:00am. There is also the point the experts made that it's "overselling." They use the same description of BR in his childhood interviews.

More speculation: when the CBS special experts discussed PR's prematurely hanging up the phone, I wonder if that's the moment she recognized the handwriting on the RN, gave JR a horrified look and that's why we hear them in the background saying "We aren't speaking to you" and "What did you do?" Then we hear a BR say "What did you find?" which could have been about the RN. I assumed he was talking about JBR.

I really do believe there were voices on the tapes. I heard them myself without any prompting.
 
I wonder why the successful strategy to date has been abandoned in the lead up to her anniversary? Like as suss as the Ramsay's have appeared to many people, they continued to move in the same social circles unshunned, had prosperous careers and a large majority of the general public thought the DNA exoneration was legit. Kolar's book appeared without a blip. For all intents and purposes what John and Patsy set out to achieve that night had come to pass - thee was no social or legal reality which included a family member being the culprit. They could go on pretending to be who they wanted to be.

What changed? Did CBS really force their hand? Is Burke a psychopath and has grown bored and wants some argy bargy? Is there some other evidence about to float to the surface?

BBM LOL argy bargy. :)

I have wondered if CBS aired this show for the purpose of eliciting a response from BR and LW so everything can be hashed out in civil court since it can never be hashed out in criminal court. I want to believe that there's at least one media outlet that wants this case resolved once and for all so little JBR can rest in peace.
 
I'm not sure I completely understand those true bills. Does it mean the parents endangered the girls life by allowing Burke to live there? Or does it mean they dropped the kids off at home and left them there, dropped the presents off, and came back home?

Never mind. After thinking about it for a bit I'm going to go with the former -- that the grand jury indicted the parents for allowing Jonbenet to LIVE at home with Burke.
 
Did anyone ever mention why the "a" in the ransom note(s) were consistently the same without deviation, and did not match any known handwriting of P.R. (or her a's cursive or otherwise) Wasn't it a block "a". Of course the q written like a number 8 is consistent with her's as well as her c's. But its the "a" I'm concerned about.

On one of the JBR shows a handwriting analyst went over the RN , IIRC there were consistencies and inconsistencies with PR's handwriting. I remember the "8" in particular being a point the analyst spoke of. It was her opinion that PR did not write the note. IMO (as an unprofessional) believe PR did write the note.
 
Never mind. After thinking about it for a bit I'm going to go with the former -- that the grand jury indicted the parents for allowing Jonbenet to LIVE at home with Burke.

Yes the family dog was given more consideration. Tell me again why the dog didn't live at home?
 
Some posters here have repeated that Burke was “interrogated” by police twice within the first few weeks after JonBenet was killed. To understand why that is just not correct, the context has to be understood on each of the interactions.

When first interviewed at the Whites’ house, Patterson was trying to find out if Burke had heard or seen anything during the night that might help. Earlier in the day, John had prevented police talking to him and hurried him out of the house to White’s car. Patterson took it upon himself to discreetly ask Burke questions thinking he may have witnessed something that would help with the investigation. Any possible involvement by him in the death was not even considered at that point, so his questions didn’t delve into that. He was only trying to find out if he had heard or witnessed something that would help.

The second interview was required by DSS (Department of Social Services) because of the death of a child in her home. They wanted to make sure there was no threat to any other children in the home. The Ramseys had no choice in the matter unless they wanted to have him removed from their custody. But even at that, they (through their attorneys) negotiated with the DA to have the interview conducted only by a psychologist with no police present or allowed to directly ask questions. Here is what Kolar wrote about that interview:

The day after JonBenét’s murder, the coroner’s office spent most of the day performing the autopsy on her body. A break in the autopsy protocol took place that afternoon when Dr. Meyer called together the Boulder County Child Fatality Review Team. As noted in a previous chapter, the team had collectively established a list of things for Boulder Police and DSS investigators to pursue in their search for possible explanations of the evidence that suggested prior sexual abuse.


Again, like the first instance, this was not an “interrogation” and it was not something the parents “allowed” to happen (without the threat of loss of custody). By the time he was interviewed (January 8, 1997), the parents had had plenty of opportunity to coach him on what to say, what not to say. Still, as a 10 year-old, he let a few things slip that in hindsight should have given investigators reason to look closer at him even though he could never be considered a suspect due to his age.

Again, from Kolar:

At one point during the interview, Dr. Bernhard asked Burke if he felt safe in his home. There was no hesitation when he responded that, yes, he felt safe at home and was not worried about an intruder returning.


I thought it unusual that he would feel safe about his circumstances following the death of his sister. Here he was, probably 30 feet down the hall from her bedroom, when an intruder silently crept into his home and snatched his sister from her own bed and brutally tortured and murdered her within earshot of his family. There were other children and families in Boulder who were terribly afraid that they could be the next target of this monster, and Burke seemed not to give it a second thought.



What part of Burke was interviewed BY THE POLICE TWO YEARS after the incident is so hard for people to understand? This wasn't a mandatory Social Services interview. This was his parents taking him to the police two years AFTER the crime and allowing him to be interviewed by detectives.

It's mind boggling how people keep trying to twist this into not happening. The parents had no reason to do this. They were NOT mandated to do this. And it would have been extremely risky to do this if there was a spur of the moment cover up of Burke killing his sister.
 
What part of Burke was interviewed BY THE POLICE TWO YEARS after the incident is so hard for people to understand? This wasn't a mandatory Social Services interview. This was his parents taking him to the police two years AFTER the crime and allowing him to be interviewed by detectives.

It's mind boggling how people keep trying to twist this into not happening. The parents had no reason to do this. They were NOT mandated to do this. And it would have been extremely risky to do this if there was a spur of the moment cover up of Burke killing his sister.

Two years later? What took so long? Oh my ....

Now when was the Grand Jury convened? And what did those folks conclude?
 
agree with others that this case should not disappear out of the spotlight. That is the very least that can happen towards justice for little JonBenet.

It is possible that other children's lives can be saved by this case being discussed publicly. I always have hope.

In my opinion it would be helpful if a lawsuit brought this case to court. There are still so many questions unanswered and I think it is time (it was 20 years ago!) for
J.R. to answer some of these questions. Someone posted that perhaps provoking a lawsuit was the ultimate goal of the CBS series. Who knows? But I believe it will be a good
thing to move towards justice for JonBenet.

I join others in wishing to know how the Grand Jury arrived at the conclusions they did. It is astonishing that these conclusions were not made transparent at the time.

Having read interviews and an article by Stanley Barnett, the current D.A. in Boulder, I have faith in him that he will seriously look at this case again.
Perhaps a lawsuit will trigger this.

A little girl was savagely murdered and so much was swept under the rug. It is time to shine the light - shine the light on everything surrounding this case. After
all, the focus should be on JonBenet and only to find the truth. That little girl deserves at least this.

Bring on the lawsuit L.W. ! Anything to get the focus back where it belongs - to a murder investigation!
 
BBM LOL argy bargy. :)

I have wondered if CBS aired this show for the purpose of eliciting a response from BR and LW so everything can be hashed out in civil court since it can never be hashed out in criminal court. I want to believe that there's at least one media outlet that wants this case resolved once and for all so little JBR can rest in peace.

Dear Justthefactsplease,

Thank you for this. Your posts are not only insightful but filled with compassion and kindness. I always look forward to reading them.
 
Legal experts....we know medical records for one or both of the kids was sealed.
BUT for the grand jury investigation would they have had access to those?

I'm just speculating that maybe the endangerment charges against the parents could have stemmed from one or both children having serious psychological diagnosis's for which the parents weren't taking seriously and/or weren't getting recommend help for these issues.

I know when parents refused medical care for there children, sometimes dr's and hospitals can file child endangerment charges against the parents.

I just wonder if this could be part of what the grand jury indictment is all about.....knowing a "medical" (aka psychological) problem existed, yet did not do enough to address this situation, therefor endangering both of their children.
 
After thinking about it for a while I would say NO, he wasn't involved! It all seems too implausible for me to believe he accidentally killed her and then the parents covering up for him. We would have to believe too many crazy things IMO for the family theory to be true. These piece of evidence that Lou Smit brought up are enough for me to trust the intruder theory -

The intruder left no footprints because he went around and avoided the snow - http://i.imgur.com/AzYkumz.png / http://i.imgur.com/7lThNRs.png / http://i.imgur.com/9Azf8FG.png
Foliage trapped underneath the metal grill, which the intruder moved to get inside the basement - http://i.imgur.com/TWtMJep.png
And we see a disturbance when he landed his feet underneath the metal grill - http://i.imgur.com/1aRmDJs.png
The intruder left his fingerprints on the window he used to get inside the basement - http://i.imgur.com/3YmHVpI.png
The intruder left a shoe print on the briefcase he used to escape the house - http://i.imgur.com/UCummhi.png
Left a shoe/sneaker mark on the wall and left the window open - http://i.imgur.com/KowhrYl.png
(WARNING: GRAPHIC) JonBenét's stun gun marks - http://i.imgur.com/U82Ck5H.png
With the electric arch clearly seen here - http://i.imgur.com/E8lQ2E6.png / http://i.imgur.com/YVyNHuW.png
The garrote used to strangle JonBenét was pulled so hard and violently that pieces of her hair were stuck on it, you really think her parents or brother could have done that? - http://i.imgur.com/2Nyxga2.png / http://i.imgur.com/NdwTliI.png
(WARNING: GRAPHIC) JonBenét was strangled so violently you can see red marks around her entire neck - http://i.imgur.com/BuwGhBz.png
(WARNING: GRAPHIC) So it wasn't just "planted" their by her parents to make it look like a strangulation. She really was severely strangled - http://i.imgur.com/solzTQ3.png
(WARNING: GRAPHIC) Her fingernail marks on her neck suggesting she was fighting back against the strangulation proving she was alive first & strangled. Then she was hit over the head that cracked her skull and died shortly after the blow - http://i.imgur.com/P7ydZLV.png

To me this makes more sense then the "family did it" theory. I can't see Burke hitting her so hard to crack her skull then the parents finding out and covering it up by strangling the daughter they loved very much in the basement to cause severe marks around JonBenét's neck, then sexually assaulting her, then breaking the glass window in the basement, leaving footprint marks, writing a note under great emotional stress and saying they would "behead" their own daughter? The language in the note suggests an intruder wrote it because the language used in the note would not come from an intelligent and caring person like Patsy who loved her daughter too much. Patsy or John didn't have that kind of vocabulary, sorry I just don't buy it. Leaving her dead and cold in the basement like that and pretending not to know where she is when the cops came, that's crazy.

Even the phone call makes sense when you accept the intruder theory. Patsy saying "what did you do?" "Help me Jesus" implies her not knowing anything! Why would she say that off the record when she knew nobody was listening to her, if she knew her daughter was dead in the basement she wouldn't have uttered those words. When they woke up in the morning they may have taught Burke did something to her that's why even John said "we're not speaking to you" but Burke was innocent, it was just a false assumption by them. No, these parents would have died for their children, they loved them too much, they had too much invested in them! You can just tell.
 
After thinking about it for a while I would say NO, he wasn't involved! It all seems too implausible for me to believe he accidentally killed her and then the parents covering up for him. We would have to believe too many crazy things IMO for the family theory to be true. These piece of evidence that Lou Smit brought up are enough for me to trust the intruder theory -

The intruder left no footprints because he went around and avoided the snow - http://i.imgur.com/AzYkumz.png / http://i.imgur.com/7lThNRs.png / http://i.imgur.com/9Azf8FG.png
Foliage trapped underneath the metal grill, which the intruder moved to get inside the basement - http://i.imgur.com/TWtMJep.png
And we see a disturbance when he landed his feet underneath the metal grill - http://i.imgur.com/1aRmDJs.png
The intruder left his fingerprints on the window he used to get inside the basement - http://i.imgur.com/3YmHVpI.png
The intruder left a shoe print on the briefcase he used to escape the house - http://i.imgur.com/UCummhi.png
Left a shoe/sneaker mark on the wall and left the window open - http://i.imgur.com/KowhrYl.png
(WARNING: GRAPHIC) JonBenét's stun gun marks - http://i.imgur.com/U82Ck5H.png
With the electric arch clearly seen here - http://i.imgur.com/E8lQ2E6.png / http://i.imgur.com/YVyNHuW.png
The garrote used to strangle JonBenét was pulled so hard and violently that pieces of her hair were stuck on it, you really think her parents or brother could have done that? - http://i.imgur.com/2Nyxga2.png / http://i.imgur.com/NdwTliI.png
(WARNING: GRAPHIC) JonBenét was strangled so violently you can see red marks around her entire neck - http://i.imgur.com/BuwGhBz.png
(WARNING: GRAPHIC) So it wasn't just "planted" their by her parents to make it look like a strangulation. She really was severely strangled - http://i.imgur.com/solzTQ3.png
(WARNING: GRAPHIC) Her fingernail marks on her neck suggesting she was fighting back against the strangulation proving she was alive first & strangled. Then she was hit over the head that cracked her skull and died shortly after the blow - http://i.imgur.com/P7ydZLV.png

To me this makes more sense then the "family did it" theory. I can't see Burke hitting her so hard to crack her skull then the parents finding out and covering it up by strangling the daughter they loved very much in the basement to cause severe marks around JonBenét's neck, then sexually assaulting her, then breaking the glass window in the basement, leaving footprint marks, writing a note under great emotional stress and saying they would "behead" their own daughter? The language in the note suggests an intruder wrote it because the language used in the note would not come from an intelligent and caring person like Patsy who loved her daughter too much. Patsy or John didn't have that kind of vocabulary, sorry I just don't buy it. Leaving her dead and cold in the basement like that and pretending not to know where she is when the cops came, that's crazy.

Even the phone call makes sense when you accept the intruder theory. Patsy saying "what did you do?" "Help me Jesus" implies her not knowing anything! Why would she say that off the record when she knew nobody was listening to her, if she knew her daughter was dead in the basement she wouldn't have uttered those words. When they woke up in the morning they may have taught Burke did something to her that's why even John said "we're not speaking to you" but Burke was innocent, it was just a false assumption by them. No, these parents would have died for their children, they loved them too much, they had too much invested in them! You can just tell.

How did the spider web stay intact when the intruder went through the window?
 
When did Patsy tell police that she went to bed that night?? John said she stayed up to pack... So, for how long did she pack?? She didn't leave much time to get to the airport at 7 AM, since she was just coming down the stairs @ 5:30 or 5:45! And, she says she was putting their clothes in plastic bags--- WHATEVER. That woman would not be packing nice clothes in a plastic bag!!
 
Can a judge ever unseal those records if pertinent to a legal case?
 
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