The Case of JonBenet Ramsey-CBS Sept. 18 # 2

[Ashleyh613]

I just want to thank god that Nancy Grace wasn't around when this happened because if I would have had to listen to her cover it nonstop I might puke.

 

[Sparko96]

Quick question: how much blood loss was postulated? The clean-up of the crime scene is a definite indictment of JR and PR.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[DeDee]

I'm interested in why you say this DeDee?

I wrote that adults know, or should know, that acute vaginal abuse does not secret previous chronic abuse. Acute damage, blood and fluids wiped from her inner thighs, highlight the previous abuse; not cloak it. Those great big pair of underwear are so clean that they were new but still a bit insulting b/c fluids were on them that did not match up with the sexual injuries.

That is the reason it appears, to me, that an aggresive BR is responsible for the acute vaginal intrusion, one last time, for old time's sake, perhaps. SBP

I feel BR is responsible for the chronic sexual abuse. :dunno: He injured her, made her cry and bleed when he inserted a broken stick into her private area. Can't say either parent did that or that scary garrote killing device.

BR is sneaky and perhaps a bit devious. A similar garrote was noted by the housekeeper as being seen in the basement. Apparently, she was keen to notate the children playing doctor under the covers. The permanent smile BR wore doesn't fool me. His appearance on DP Show, did him no favors.

If father and brother were molesting JonBenet, Patsy should have locked both males inside their rooms at night. One person did all of the heinous stuff. All 3 covered with lies and innuendos, is how I see it

Attached is a SS of JBRs bedroom as it looked for the Tour of Homes in regard to the pillows' placement. One bed pillow. with a little drop or two of her blood on the Beauty and the Beast pillowcase, was found at the foot end of her bed at the CS. JBR kept her PJs stored under her pillow until night time when they're needed as many are taught to do.

SS taken from Video credit goes to cynic

[video=dailymotion;x4t5yrf]http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x4t5yrf[/video]

 

[sherri57]

wow. So posters on ffj were right when saying there is somehing else in the bowl with the pineapple. Now we know it was milk and it was Jb who liked it that way. - Madeleine

Ya, been looking at that white bowl for years.

I thought the fact that the bowl of milk/pineapple had both Burkes and Patsys fingerprints on it, while the ice tea had only Burkes, was very telling. The theory the experts on the show came up with that Patsy was up with Burke and he was eating it, and then goes to check on JonBenet, which wakes her up and she realizes her brother is up and goes downstairs is very plausible. I could easily see a child just reaching and grabbing some pineapple out of the bowl without asking and the one with the bowl striking out in anger like any other kid does when something is taken from them. That theory makes sense to me. The testing with the flashlight was on the money for creating the same type of skull fracture. And that flashlight was on the table when crime scene photos were taken. And I agree that a 9-10 year old boy could inflict that wound on a 6 year old. As a nurse I've seen many injuries inflicted from various objects by young kids that you might not think could be done. But the video of Burke swinging his arm twice in a pretty fast hard hit shows that he could have produced that injury using the large maglite flashlight in my opinion. I agree that this theory makes a lot of sense. After that, the coverup all started. And no one mentioned Burke being disappointed that they were supposed to be going to Disneyworld in the morning. He just played possum in his bed, awake, and waited for his parents to tell him what to do next. No adult has ever said that Burke asked what happened to his sister or where was she or what about our trip? He has done nothing all these years to try to find the killer of his sister. Just went on with his life, quietly and basically as a loner. I find all of his behavior very strange. And I think he really somehow managed to fool Dr Phil in his interviews as well.

 

[TeaTime]

HLN special - detective finds it hard to believe that any parent faced with a ransom note would not read it carefully and make sure they did not do anything they were told to not do."

 

[Ashleyh613]

PR also told LE that she had only read the first few lines of the ransom note, up until she got to the part where it said "we have your daughter" and ran upstairs to check JBR room and scream for JR. So if she only read the first few lines than why did she tell the 911 operator it said Victory! SBTC when asked if it said who took her?

 

[Heymom]

It's just really telling to me. I mean it's weird that he says it's prescribed by Burkes psychiatrist. It's easy to miss that nugget if your not paying attention or aren't familiar with the difference in profession. He would absolutely be seeing a therapists or counselor of he was seeing someone to deal with the murder of JBR. If he's under continued care of a psychiatrist it's because he's been diagnosed with a psychiatric disorder and May or may not be prescribed medication as well. And I think most versed in psychology know this. Big slip up for me. On an end note, do these parents not have their own doctors? Geez!

One caveat: I know when I first saw a psychiatrist in the mid-1980's, he did therapy and did not merely prescribe medications. In fact, he never prescribed me anything, but we did do grief work. The profession has evolved into where the MDs simply prescribe medications and the psychologists/LSWs do the therapy. So it may be that in 1996, Burke's psychiatrist was both prescribing and doing therapy. But this is a good point to ponder, for sure.

 

[Linda7NJ]

New show on HLN right now "who killed JonBenet" -


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[BBB167893]

Things that continue to puzzle me about this case (continued):

2. How Much Did JR Know on the Morning of Dec 26?
When police arrived that morning, JR told them he woke up before PR – at around 5:25 a.m. He said she was still in bed when he went in the bathroom to shave/shower. So if he really didn’t know anything at that point, then PR was especially devious. This means she not only would have done all of the staging solo (the “garrote,” the ransom note, the strangulation, the wrist bindings, the tape, etc.), but also that she crept back into their bedroom, quickly undressed, and slipped into bed to make it seem like she was still sleeping when JR woke up.

If JR *did know* what happened and was in on the staging from the start, then I go back to my first question – why was PR putting on the big “psycho” performance in BR’s room before police even showed up if everyone in the house already knew JBR was lying dead in the basement?

I’d love to know what other posters think!

Well, since I think he DID know, PR's performance put me back on her doing it: trying to convince BR that she didn't know about it beforehand.

 

[BBB167893]

It would take some incredibly crazy parents to garrote their daughter - dead or alive. If JBR's death could be made to look like it was an accident then the parents would have done so - John is a very smart man and Patsy was no dummy- and they could afford good lawyers to help. And given the conflicting reports on sexual abuse, that would have been easy to explain away too. But the garrote marks - there was no explaining those - that's why they had to go the intruder route and all the rest that followed from that - pointing fingers in other directions at every opportunity.

Incredibly crazy parents is what I think we had here, johnjay!

 

[BBB167893]

[/B]

BBM, I think the problem in this case is normal people trying to make sense out of very abnormal circumstances that culminated in the murder of a little girl.

Couldn't have said it better myself, Karinna! The day a small child's murder makes sense to me, I hope I'll have the strength to kill myself.

 

[ThinkHard]

Tortoise was correct in citing the WHO diagnosis of dissocial personality disorder. ASPD is the DSM-5 equivalent.

Personally I do not think antisocial personality disorder fits Burke from stat we know of him. It's also interesting that the DSM criteria is slightly different then the who criteria.

 

[BBB167893]

I'm interested in why you say this DeDee?

I am, too. Why would they know it? On its face, it must have seemed like just what the doctor ordered.

 

[sherri57]

Hi UKGuy - I agree - I'm sorry, I didn't make myself clear. Earlier in the thread, some people were suggesting that the garrote could have been made earlier, in a premeditated plan. I can't see that fits with the facts. As far as repurposing - there was speculation it could have already been tied around a christmas tree box, and I assumed people meant that the loop already existed (does that make sense?) What original use could need to be masked?

Did the longjohns have to be fetched? I thought JB was wearing them when she went to bed - I know nothing PR states can be relied on though.

I thought that John carried a sleepingJB up to her bed in the clothes she wore at the White's party and just put her in the bed, removing only her shoes. So that would have given Patsy a reason to go up and re-dress her for bed and have her go potty, which in turn would have woken her up and she didn't want to go back to bed. Also, I don't recall that she was wearing longjohns at FW's party. She would have been all dressed up. I think the larger underwear and longjohns were put on her because she wet the bottoms she had on. And she ended up going downstairs by her brother while Patsy changed the bedding, putting the wet sheets in the laundry and clean dry sheets on the bed.Their maid had said the sheets on the bed the day JB was found are not the sheets she put on the bed on the 23rd. She was off on the 24th. The cops found those sheets in the washer, I believe. I also don't believe the kids went down the basement that night because of Christmas presents (there were none down there) or to play. I think the recent investigators were right about JB finding her brother with the milk/pineapple in the kitchen.

 

[BBB167893]

I want to go on record here as NOT AGREEING!

I want Burke to do more interviews! I think he looked great, totally trustworthy, and the Dr. Phil interview was a SMART MOVE! He should keep doing more interviews, so people will see how honest he is!

Sarcasm?

 

[BBB167893]

So then it must have been Patsy who put the new underwear on her - out of shame because all of her other underwear was stained? She knew the LE would be finding JBR and would have a post-mortem exam, didn't want the stained panties to be found and exclaimed over....She had maybe told JonBenet that she would get new underwear when she stopped wetting/soiling them? And now JonBenet is dead and will never wear those new underwear, so here's at least a new pair even if it's the wrong size?

Well, my mother always told me to make sure I had on clean underwear if I was in an accident. I'm sure Patsy was the same way, even if this wasn't the "kind" of accident she had in mind.

 

[Ashleyh613]

Sometimes I forget this is 20 years ago! At least they had Burke seeing a psychiatrist, I'd be afraid of him.

 

[dizzychick]

Now that the dust has settled a bit from all the recent programs about JonBenet, I’ve had some time to reflect on my theories. I still believe BR was responsible for the head blow, and I still believe the parents covered it up. But I remain conflicted about what parts of the crime were staged, who did what, and who knew what and when they knew. Things that continue to puzzle me about this case:

1. BR’s Account of PR Waking Him Up That Morning “Acting Psycho”
In one of the early taped interviews, BR says it was his mother who first woke him up the morning of Dec. 26. He says she rushed into his room, flipped on the lights, and was frantically asking “Where’s my baby? Where’s my baby?” Later on DrP, he says he can’t remember if she turned on the lights or not, but he reiterates the same basic story that she was the first one to wake him up and that she was frantic.

If BR is telling the truth, my question is – who is this “performance” for? If BR is the one who hit JBR over the head (and I think he was), and PR wrote the note (and I think she did), and both JR and PR did the staging together, then why is PR beginning her macabre acting performance before anyone has arrived at the house yet? That’s like starting the play while the curtain is still down and there’s no one in the audience yet.

So that makes me wonder – was JR still “in the dark” about everything at that point and this “performance” by PR was her attempt to convince *him* that a kidnapping had occurred? Or – was the plan to try to ease BR’s guilt somehow and make him think that he didn’t really kill JBR after all, but that some “bad men” crept into the house AFTER BR hit her so THEY are the ones that are really responsible?

Or is BR lying about these early morning events? If that is the case, then he was already quite calculating at a young age or very carefully coached prior to the early taped interviews.

Is this bugging anyone else? I would love to know other Websleuthers’ thoughts on this!

Did BR say the word psycho when he was being interviewed at 9 or on Dr P ? If it was at 9, i think that is a strange word for a child to use, where would he have heard that ?

 

[BBB167893]

Quick question: how much blood loss was postulated? The clean-up of the crime scene is a definite indictment of JR and PR.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

No blood loss, as far as anyone knows, Sparko96.

 

[dizzychick]

I have a stupid question, other than the photographer who was on the CBS special why are all the friends and neighbors still so unwilling to talk about this case ? Are they afraid of lawsuits? I would guess any and all statutes of limitations except murder have long run out so surely no one can claim they are afraid of being prosecuted?