MA - Vanessa Marcotte, 27, murdered, Princeton, 7 Aug 2016 #6

[Kickoff61]

There was another big case in MA , The Reardon guy who sexually abused victims for a long time without getting caught , smart, *advertiser censored* too, etc. Until his wife found items in the closet. Not a killer , I don't think, but still went a long time without getting caught.

 

[Kickoff61]

The worst ones are those who somehow find a way of fitting in the community , looking fine, with families or careers, etc, or jobs that give them access to victims. Sociopaths who seem charming or normal. Yet, very sick to do things like this.

 

[Rocky1]

I don't disagree that two could be involved. I can't say I lean that way but I haven't ruled it out. Well over an hour is too long for the timeframe unless you agree she was taken almost immediately.

I don't lean that way either, but I don't believe the SUV was involved at all. I'm just discussing the different possibilities everyone else has.
Yes, I believe she was taken before 1:30. Remember TOD was between 1-3, so that leaves 1 1/2 hours. That doesn't mean he was out of there by 3. It justs means he had 1 1/2 hours before he killed her.
What time do you think she was abducted if my time frame is too long?

 

[Rocky1]

Yes, smart until eventually they make a mistake. BTK guy eventually did using a computer at a church, I believe. This man in this case could have eventually made a mistake not getting rid of the all the DNA as planned, or getting rid of everything if he wanted the fire to do just that.

You're right. BKW got cocky and sent the police something off the church computer.

 

[ForensicMass]

I think if I didn't want anyone get their hands on something I'd throw it. We don't know if LE found the phone or not.
If he was worried about someone finding her, do you think he would have set the fire? I think that was the last worry on his mind.
Shutting off the phone has been my first thought from day one, but I doubt he took it with him.

I don't think he brought it home and kept it as a trophy I think he may have removed it from the immediate scene and disposed of it shortly there after my current thinking is that it is currently located within a few miles of the site unless it was thrown in a dumpster in which case we will never see it again.

I have a friend in town tomorrow who will test the accuracy of the find my phone application with no Wi-Fi in both the BSR And mountain barn areas. I will report the findings

 

[ForensicMass]

I don't lean that way either, but I don't believe the SUV was involved at all. I'm just discussing the different possibilities everyone else has.
Yes, I believe she was taken before 1:30. Remember TOD was between 1-3, so that leaves 1 1/2 hours. That doesn't mean he was out of there by 3. It justs means he had 1 1/2 hours before he killed her.
What time do you think she was abducted if my time frame is too long?

I don't think your timeframe is too long if you are of the opinion that she was attacked early on in the run

 

[Rocky1]

I don't think he brought it home and kept it as a trophy I think he may have removed it from the immediate scene and disposed of it shortly there after my current thinking is that it is currently located within a few miles of the site unless it was thrown in a dumpster in which case we will never see it again.

I have a friend in town tomorrow who will test the accuracy of the find my phone application with no Wi-Fi in both the BSR And mountain barn areas. I will report the findings

If the "FindMyPhone" was working properly, wouldn't it have taken her family right to the dumpster?

 

[Rocky1]

I don't think your timeframe is too long if you are of the opinion that she was attacked early on in the run

Right, but what do you think?

 

[ForensicMass]

If the "FindMyPhone" was working properly, wouldn't it have taken her family right to the dumpster?

It would have shown its last recorded location before it was powered down. If any of you have been following the search for the MH3 70 aircraft it is sort of like that. The phone intermittently records its position internally and that information can be sent to the cloud. A second phone can then access the information on the cloud which shows the last location of the phone- That being the last recorded location that the phone logged while it was still on . If the killer had it in his vehicle as he was passing the mountain barn and turned the phone off that's where it would locate If he walked over to throw the phone in the dumpster and turned it off right at the dumpster under ideal conditions with minimal error they would have been able to see that the phone was near the dumpster if for example the dumpster was at the rear of the lot and that's where the signal came from

 

[ForensicMass]

Right, but what do you think?

I don't think you're wrong if that's what you mean . personally I think this crime got out of control quickly and because of that I feel it was conducted in a hurried manner. If he was looking to spend a lot of time with her it would seem that he would want to do it in secrecy in a basementt or somewhere more private . I can't I see him spending more than 15 and at most 30 minutes in that area with her. this is in part because I do believe the SUV was involved because I do not think that police would be that concerned about it unless they had very strong evidence that it was involved . and I do not think that the SUV was brought there after the fact because it would create unreasonable un needed risk. Some have suggested that he returned with the vehicle because he needed some tools perhaps a method to burn her. since visiting the crime scene I have ruled out in my own mind the idea of him using a torch and therefore I think this could have been accomplished with just a lighter which would mean there would be no reason whatsoever that I have heard for him to return with a vehicle. So I do believe the vehicle was a part of this from the beginning to the end. The only way I could see it being only partially involved is if there were two

 

[Kickoff61]

I don't think you're wrong if that's what you mean . personally I think this crime got out of control quickly and because of that I feel it was conducted in a hurried manner. If he was looking to spend a lot of time with her it would seem that he would want to do it in secrecy in a basementt or somewhere more private . I can't I see him spending more than 15 and at most 30 minutes in that area with her. this is in part because I do believe the SUV was involved because I do not think that police would be that concerned about it unless they had very strong evidence that it was involved . and I do not think that the SUV was brought there after the fact because it would create unreasonable un needed risk. Some have suggested that he returned with the vehicle because he needed some tools perhaps a method to burn her. since visiting the crime scene I have ruled out in my own mind the idea of him using a torch and therefore I think this could have been accomplished with just a lighter which would mean there would be no reason whatsoever that I have heard for him to return with a vehicle. So I do believe the vehicle was a part of this from the beginning to the end. The only way I could see it being only partially involved is if there were two

You just explained how someone on the route could have done this at their property or house and then used vehicle to bring her there at a location he knew very well, without driving with a dead body far in vehicle on a hot summer day.

 

[Kickoff61]

Also, googling how pings can help LE after the fact with solving cases is interesting.

 

[ForensicMass]

You just explained how someone on the route could have done this at their property or house and then used vehicle to bring here there at a location he knew very well, without driving with a dead body far in vehicle on a hot summer day.

there is no evidence that suggests to me that the location where she was found was a dump location and again anyone who lives in that area who knows about that path also knows about 100 other more secluded locations at similar distances away. So no, that does not explain why someone would bring her to that location. And furthermore I have another hole in that theory- if she was brought from somewhere else why does the burning take place at the dumpsite ? He could have done far better to remove evidences when he had her on his own property in private.
If you are familiar with that general area and you drive around and just take a couple of random roads here and there you will understand what I mean when I explain that this dumpsite is actually a really poor choice which is why I believe it was a necessity and not a choice I think Vanessa may have had something to do with this.

 

[Rocky1]

I don't think you're wrong if that's what you mean . personally I think this crime got out of control quickly and because of that I feel it was conducted in a hurried manner. If he was looking to spend a lot of time with her it would seem that he would want to do it in secrecy in a basementt or somewhere more private . I can't I see him spending more than 15 and at most 30 minutes in that area with her. this is in part because I do believe the SUV was involved because I do not think that police would be that concerned about it unless they had very strong evidence that it was involved . and I do not think that the SUV was brought there after the fact because it would create unreasonable un needed risk. Some have suggested that he returned with the vehicle because he needed some tools perhaps a method to burn her. since visiting the crime scene I have ruled out in my own mind the idea of him using a torch and therefore I think this could have been accomplished with just a lighter which would mean there would be no reason whatsoever that I have heard for him to return with a vehicle. So I do believe the vehicle was a part of this from the beginning to the end. The only way I could see it being only partially involved is if there were two

Ok so let's take the 30 minutes, which is the longest. How long do you think it took to get her back in the woods, remove her clothing, and build a fire, without any sexual assault or fighting, I don't mean hanging around watching the fire grow, just gathering the wood, (if that's what he used, and I think that's all he used) and enough to get it going?

 

[Kickoff61]

there is no evidence that suggests to me that the location where she was found was a dump location and again anyone who lives in that area who knows about that path also knows about 100 other more secluded locations at similar distances away. So no, that does not explain why someone would bring her to that location. And furthermore I have another hole in that theory- if she was brought from somewhere else why does the burning take place at the dumpsite ? He could have done far better to remove evidences when he had her on his own property in private.
If you are familiar with that general area and you drive around and just take a couple of random roads here and there you will understand what I mean when I explain that this dumpsite is actually a really poor choice which is why I believe it was a necessity and not a choice I think Vanessa may have had something to do with this.

There is no evidence the vehicle was there the entire time either and was not used to come back to the scene to do the fire or bring her there either way. (part time). (if involved at all). But, he would not want fire evidence on his property. and you keep ignoring the issue of driving with a dead body in the vehicle on a hot summer day. Evidence increasing. You are interested in forensics , clearly. So this should be interesting right?

 

[Kickoff61]

I can't see Vanessa having anything to do with this, if you mean running into long grass and seclusion of trees around the bend.

 

[Danyel]

I don't think he brought it home and kept it as a trophy I think he may have removed it from the immediate scene and disposed of it shortly there after my current thinking is that it is currently located within a few miles of the site unless it was thrown in a dumpster in which case we will never see it again.

I have a friend in town tomorrow who will test the accuracy of the find my phone application with no Wi-Fi in both the BSR And mountain barn areas. I will report the findings

Sorry if I worded anything poorly but I didn't have Wi-Fi when using find iphone in those areas (BSR, mountain barn, wachusett mountain)

 

[DeDee]

This is a shocking crime that has made the local residents feel assaulted themselves. This is the reason I feel so many tips have been phoned in to the tipline. Folks are desperately trying to help find a killer.

There is absolutely no evidence that VM had a secret lover.

There is absolutely no evidence that the Perp had a gun. If he held a gun on her, then he intended to use it. Agree with FM on that issue.

It is difficult to reconcile the timeline with an hour spent with VM at the CS in the woods. I agree the killer is possibly a sexual sadist but an entire hour spent with a dying or dead body is very long time when considering the location. Therefore, I disagree with Rocky on that issue. If it turns out that the killer was a Satanic worshipper who performed some sort of ritual act at the CS then, that would be a different situation.

Given that running in Princeton was something VM did twice monthly, only on Sunday afternoons places her in a routine fairly easy for a predator who knows this information to find a point of least resistance. I do not believe this was happenstance due to the odds of her twice monthly runs just happening to coincide with a fellow scouting for a rape victim who happens to be driving along BSR as VM leaves her mom's long driveway. It certainly could happen due to the shockingly high number of SOs in the immediate area.

There is no evidence of any other CS.

Stuffing clothing items into her mouth would keep her screams muffled. This is a very bad guy.

The COD has not been released. I expect to be shocked when it is revealed.

For months, I've thought the Find My app was used by her relatives to learn the last ping was at 2:25. Now, I discover that is pure speculation. We do not know what type phone VM possessed or if LEO has located her phone. Speculating what the killer may have done with her phone is purely speculation. And all of this speculation has my head spinning.

Prosecutors said in a statement that the SUV was “seen around the time of the murder near where [Marcotte’s] body was found,” near her mother’s home on Brooks Station Road, on the evening of Aug. 7.

A month after Vanessa Marcotte was murdered while jogging in Princeton, authorities say they have received more than 1,000 tips in the case, but they are still asking for the public’s help in finding her killer.

“Detectives are following up on every lead and all tips that contain potentially credible information,” Worcester District Attorney Joseph D. Early Jr. said Wednesday in a statement. [“....”]

Marcotte, 27, was killed Aug. 7 in the woods near her mother’s home in Princeton, where she was visiting from New York. Authorities say she was killed between 1 and 3 p.m. after going for a run.
https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2...murder-case/btaMFAE6Jhytctju3pzvOL/story.html

 

[Kickoff61]

Yes it seem unreasonable to me. You actually make my case. If he has taken the time to "Cover his DNA tracks," and has covering his tracks on his mind, why then would he even think of taking the phone?
You say he "remembers he still has her phone on him." How did he end up with her phone on him in the first place? If we use your scenario of her being in jogging clothes, her phone would be attatched to her wrist right? After he removed her clothing and her phone, those items are on the ground, unless he males a conscious effort to put her phone in his pocket, and why would he want to do that?
I do believe he was pumped up and in a rush to get away, but not knowing,yet, I think it's fair to keep in mind if he is the "serial killer" type, it could have been just the opposite after he killed her, and could have been very calm and relieved.
Another thing to remember. MSM said that her phone pinged "off the tower next to the Mountain Barn." not 100 ft across the road , or in the parking lot etc.
If she was using FindMyPhone, (which we don't know, she could have been using ICloud which I have read in both cases can at times be up to two miles off, depending on Data/wi- fi connection) and it was totally accurate, that would have meant that her phone was right under the tower.
Hard to tell if the cam can see the road. I looked on Google Maps, and it looks close enough where it may have, but not sure.

Correct on that too, could have been calm afterwards. Especially if he has done things before. or calm and relieved as you say. Detachment even.

 

[Rocky1]

Sorry if I worded anything poorly but I didn't have Wi-Fi when using find iphone in those areas (BSR, mountain barn, wachusett mountain)

No, you worded it ok, so you had just a data link. If you also have wi-fi, the phone will sometimes switch back and forth.