Evidence revealed during the course of the Wrongful Death action

[*Lash*]

Hi thesetup85 :wave:

Below is a snip from court document ROA 437 page 47/48:

"I searched the 2nd level guest room after it had been processed for evidence. There was paperwork on top of the desk and in a box on the floor related to Rebecca’s personal matters. It appeared this room served as Rebecca’s office as well as a guest room. I also located a book on the top shelf of the bookshelf on the west wall of the room entitled “ Buckland’s Complete Book of Witchcraft.” Tire book contained hand drawn photos of subjects bound in different positions."

JMO, I wonder why the book of was not taken in as evidence? It is not listed in any of the seized items in the search warrants. Was the book ever processed for fingerprints? It states the book was found on the top shelf of a bookcase. It was not laying on the bed, floor, etc... as if Rebecca had just used it to design her suicide. It seems odd after allegedly getting suicide tips Rebecca would put the book back on the shelf. Who owned the book? The book could have belonged to anyone who ever lived in that house. Including DS or JS. Without further evidence, such as fingerprints, there is nothing to prove Rebecca knew the book existed or even touched it.

 

[LuckyLucy2]

Hi thesetup85, sorry I did not see your request earlier, but my thanks to Lash for answering your question. Welcome back to the forum!

Lash, over 150 items were taken into evidence (ROA-198). The search warrants we have seen listed only a portion of those items, and IMO, "Buckland's Book of Complete Witchcraft" is included on a search warrent we have not seen.

If Rebecca practiced witchcraft and was familiar with tying knots, she would not have needed the book right next to her as she prepared for her suiicde. IMO, she knew what she was doing and she was very familiar with tying herself up. And she certainly used red rope, like the book instructs.

The room was Rebecca's office which held her personal papers and other belongings. To suggest the book was not Rebecca's is a desperate attempt to deny the evidence of her suicide and her true character, IMO.

 

[LuckyLucy2]

In regards to the posts about Spreckels being for sale again, I personally do not think the suicide of Rebecca will impact the sale, but I think what happened to Max will be hard to put out of one's mind since the staircase is so central to the home.

Once again, here is the link that shows Jonah is not involved in the property. Facts do matter. :waiting:

BBM

Shacknai, who bought the home for $12.5 million in 2007, had planned a complete remodel but never started construction. County records show he sold the property for $9 million in July to a limited liability company, which during a lengthy escrow period spent $2.4 million in upgrades and $330,000 in furnishings.

The principal in the new ownership is Robert Harris, owner of a Logan, Utah-based private aircraft company who also owns two homes in Coronado Cays.

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/...htmlstory.html

Law Enforcement found all the evidence the first few days after Rebecca's suicide. It all proved that only Rebecca was in the room where she prepared for her suicide and only Rebecca that was on that balcony. There was no "evidence to be discovered" at the mansion at the time of its sale.

Great links about "stigmatized property", KZ, but I do not agree. I believe the mansion will sell with no problem. Most people will place the right home and/or timing above other concerns.

In relation, Dina Shacknai is having to motion the court for sanctions on Neil Nalepa. It appears Mr. Nalepa so badly wants to avoid deposition in order to avoid telling the truth about Rebecca that he did not show up for his court-ordered deposition and then moved and left no forwarding address to try to avoid further contact with the San Diego court.

ROA 496

https://roa.sdcourt.ca.gov/roa/face...ance_the_Hearing_Date_on_Mo_1484352085944.pdf

Even Neil Nalepa, who's ex-wife tragically killed herself in a bizarre and violent way doesn't seem to mind living in a place with a "violent history". Dina's lawyer found his new address and he now lives in the Grand River Canyon Apartments.

http://gazette.com/two-ordered-to-s...eath-of-coloradosprings-woman/article/1561857

 

[Imp]

Hi thesetup85 :wave:

Below is a snip from court document ROA 437 page 47/48:



JMO, I wonder why the book of was not taken in as evidence? It is not listed in any of the seized items in the search warrants. Was the book ever processed for fingerprints? It states the book was found on the top shelf of a bookcase. It was not laying on the bed, floor, etc... as if Rebecca had just used it to design her suicide. It seems odd after allegedly getting suicide tips Rebecca would put the book back on the shelf. Who owned the book? The book could have belonged to anyone who ever lived in that house. Including DS or JS. Without further evidence, such as fingerprints, there is nothing to prove Rebecca knew the book existed or even touched it.

Hi Lash. Totally agree with you there's no evidence Rebecca ever touched the book. She had some paperwork in a box in the room and seems to have used the desk. Otherwise, the room was a guest room - not really "Rebecca's office." If the book had been found in her box of paperwork or on the desk, it would be one thing, but on the top shelf of a bookshelf against the wall in a guest bedroom in a home that wasn't hers? Much more likely a prior resident of the home and/or Shacknai family member owned the book.

But gosh, you'd think given the way Rebecca's body was found bound and gagged, that a book depicting "hand drawn photos of subjects bound in different positions" would've been part of the evidence processing of the room rather than the search that happened AFTER evidence processing. And in either event, why wouldn't a piece of evidence that would seem very important be processed as evidence? As in, dusted for fingerprints?

My guess: the book WAS processed and RZ's fingerprints were not found on it ... OR ... it was NOT processed for fear her fingerprints would NOT be found on it. I've always believed the "death investigators" did not "go where the evidence led them," but rather, made sure the evidence fit the conclusion of suicide.

 

[Waitaminute]

"like the book instructs"?

Hi thesetup85, sorry I did not see your request earlier, but my thanks to Lash for answering your question. Welcome back to the forum!

Lash, over 150 items were taken into evidence (ROA-198). The search warrants we have seen listed only a portion of those items, and IMO, "Buckland's Book of Complete Witchcraft" is included on a search warrent we have not seen.

If Rebecca practiced witchcraft and was familiar with tying knots, she would not have needed the book right next to her as she prepared for her suiicde. IMO, she knew what she was doing and she was very familiar with tying herself up. And she certainly used red rope, like the book instructs.

The room was Rebecca's office which held her personal papers and other belongings. To suggest the book was not Rebecca's is a desperate attempt to deny the evidence of her suicide and her true character, IMO.

 

[LuckyLucy2]

^ Yes, the book instructs the reader to use red rope. There are a few mentions of red cord in the book. Here is one. Note that Wednesday means "debt, fear, loss" - what Rebecca would have when Jonah asked her to move out of the mansion.



I find it par for the course that some posters are saying the book was not Rebecca's. Just like they say the movie, The Housemaid, which she coped her suicide from - down to hair being under the rope - was not hers. They probably blame her faked kidnapping on someone else, too.

 

[kittychi]

^ Yes, the book instructs the reader to use red rope. There are a few mentions of red cord in the book. Here is one. Note that Wednesday means "debt, fear, loss" - what Rebecca would have when Jonah asked her to move out of the mansion.

View attachment 107817

I find it par for the course that some posters are saying the book was not Rebecca's. Just like they say the movie, The Housemaid, which she coped her suicide from - down to hair being under the rope - was not hers. They probably blame her faked kidnapping on someone else, too.

BR by me: IMHO "the reader" was the murderer, who likely knew the book was already there, or who perhaps brought the book into the house that night.

 

[Betty P]

Hi Lash. Totally agree with you there's no evidence Rebecca ever touched the book. She had some paperwork in a box in the room and seems to have used the desk. Otherwise, the room was a guest room - not really "Rebecca's office." If the book had been found in her box of paperwork or on the desk, it would be one thing, but on the top shelf of a bookshelf against the wall in a guest bedroom in a home that wasn't hers? Much more likely a prior resident of the home and/or Shacknai family member owned the book.

But gosh, you'd think given the way Rebecca's body was found bound and gagged, that a book depicting "hand drawn photos of subjects bound in different positions" would've been part of the evidence processing of the room rather than the search that happened AFTER evidence processing. And in either event, why wouldn't a piece of evidence that would seem very important be processed as evidence? As in, dusted for fingerprints?

My guess: the book WAS processed and RZ's fingerprints were not found on it ... OR ... it was NOT processed for fear her fingerprints would NOT be found on it. I've always believed the "death investigators" did not "go where the evidence led them," but rather, made sure the evidence fit the conclusion of suicide.

As it was, the SDSO had a difficult time making their case for RZ committing suicide. If the book was credible evidence, (eg if it contained her fingerprints) they most certainly would have used it to justify their decision. They didn't.

 

[*Lash*]

Hi thesetup85, sorry I did not see your request earlier, but my thanks to Lash for answering your question. Welcome back to the forum!

Lash, over 150 items were taken into evidence (ROA-198). The search warrants we have seen listed only a portion of those items, and IMO, "Buckland's Book of Complete Witchcraft" is included on a search warrent we have not seen.

If Rebecca practiced witchcraft and was familiar with tying knots, she would not have needed the book right next to her as she prepared for her suiicde. IMO, she knew what she was doing and she was very familiar with tying herself up. And she certainly used red rope, like the book instructs.

The room was Rebecca's office which held her personal papers and other belongings. To suggest the book was not Rebecca's is a desperate attempt to deny the evidence of her suicide and her true character, IMO.

BBM-

You're welcome!

Desperate attempt? Harsh wording merely because we have different opinions. I am not affiliated with any of the key members in this case and have nothing to gain or lose. Whether my opinion is right or wrong, there is nothing desperate. I'm sorry you feel this way. We simply disagree. Imo, this case was so bizarre and high profile ANY evidence LE used to draw a conclusion should have been fully tested and investigated. Such as investigating who, when and where the book was purchased. As well as forensic evidence to prove RZ ever touched the book. Otherwise, the book allegedly belonging to RZ is an assumption. Not a fact.

The red rope. According to SDSO the rope allegedly used in RZ's death was retrieved from the garage. SDSO alleged they found an empty spot on a shelf surrounded by dust which left the imprint of the rope. The rope had been there for some time to leave a dusty impression and had not been used. *IF* Rebecca practiced witchcraft and was familiar with tying knots, I would assume RZ had her own personal red rope she normally used in her practice. I don't believe SDSO found any other rope, colored or not. SDSO did not even find rope shavings from the cutting RZ allegedly did to tie herself up. JMO.

 

[K_Z]

I think it's important to remember that Spreckels was a VACATION home, not their primary residence. And that Jonah and Rebecca and Max had only been there a few weeks that season when the deaths occurred.

Not "everything" in the house was brought with them from AZ. From many reports, the home was fully furnished, had year-round live in caretakers, and had been owned by Jonah since he and Dina were married.

I think it's positively ridiculous to attribute isolated items in seldom used rooms (in a sporadically used vacation home) to some kind of nefarious meaning, or tangential association. Or worse, to attribute them to some kind of imagined or fabricated lifestyle or sexual practices. In fact, it sounds vindictive and desperate, IMO. Certainly not based on any solid facts.

Sometimes a book is just a book. The mere presence of a cookbook in a home doesn't "prove" someone is a chef, any more than the presence of a bible, koran, or torah proves someone is devoutly religious.

 

[K_Z]

It appears that the June 23 trial date will be moved again. The ROA now has discovery hearings scheduled for June 30.

Future Events:

01/17/2017 08:45 AM C-69 Ex Parte
02/10/2017 11:00 AM C-69 Motion Hearing (Civil)
03/10/2017 11:00 AM C-69 Motion Hearing (Civil)
05/19/2017 01:30 PM C-69 Summary Judgment / Summary Adjudication (Civil)
05/19/2017 01:30 PM C-69 Summary Judgment / Summary Adjudication (Civil)
05/19/2017 01:30 PM C-69 Summary Judgment / Summary Adjudication (Civil)
06/02/2017 10:30 AM C-69 Trial Readiness Conference (Civil)
06/23/2017 08:40 AM C-69 Civil Jury Trial
06/30/2017 11:00 AM C-69 Discovery Hearing
06/30/2017 11:00 AM C-69 Discovery Hearing

508 01/13/2017 Discovery Hearing scheduled for 06/30/2017 at 11:00:00 AM at Central in C-69 Katherine Bacal.
507 01/13/2017 Discovery Hearing scheduled for 06/30/2017 at 11:00:00 AM at Central in C-69 Katherine Bacal.
506 01/13/2017 Discovery Hearing scheduled for 06/30/2017 at 11:00:00 AM at Central in C-69 Katherine Bacal.
505 01/13/2017 Discovery Hearing scheduled for 06/30/2017 at 11:00:00 AM at Central in C-69 Katherine Bacal.
504 01/13/2017 Discovery Hearing scheduled for 06/30/2017 at 11:00:00 AM at Central in C-69 Katherine Bacal.
503 01/13/2017 Discovery Hearing scheduled for 06/30/2017 at 11:00:00 AM at Central in C-69 Katherine Bacal.
502 01/13/2017 Statement - Other (of Adam Shacknai RE Discovery Dispute) filed by Shacknai, Adam. Shacknai, Adam (Defendant) of Adam Shacknai RE Discovery Dispute
501 01/12/2017 Minutes finalized for Ex Parte heard 01/12/2017 08:45:00 AM. Minute Order
500 01/12/2017 Motion Hearing (Civil) continued pursuant to Court's motion to 03/10/2017 at 11:00AM before Judge Katherine Bacal.
497 01/11/2017 Proposed Order (RE Ex Parte to Advance the Hearing on Date on Motion for Sanctions) submitted by Shacknai, Dina received but not filed on 01/11/2017

.

https://roa.sdcourt.ca.gov/roa/faces/CaseSearch.xhtml

 

[Kakidoll]

^ Yes, the book instructs the reader to use red rope. There are a few mentions of red cord in the book. Here is one. Note that Wednesday means "debt, fear, loss" - what Rebecca would have when Jonah asked her to move out of the mansion.

View attachment 107817

I find it par for the course that some posters are saying the book was not Rebecca's. Just like they say the movie, The Housemaid, which she coped her suicide from - down to hair being under the rope - was not hers. They probably blame her faked kidnapping on someone else, too.

Wait, I thought you said before the tying up was some anime type *advertiser censored* that she looked like and copied? Now its witchcraft?
BTW, I own the book... if she DID practice, she'd have NEVER used red rope, let alone commit suicide with it.

 

[Imp]

Sometimes a book is just a book. The mere presence of a cookbook in a home doesn't "prove" someone is a chef, any more than the presence of a bible, koran, or torah proves someone is devoutly religious.

<snipped to address>

Great point, K_Z! I shudder to think how I'd be characterized based solely on the books I've collected over the years!

 

[LuckyLucy2]

The witchcraft book was most certainly Rebecca's, and LE would have asked Jonah whose it was. Perhaps the Zahaus can borrow it to conjure up some real evidence for their false clams? :floorlaugh:

Adam has been forced to ask the Judge for a motion to compel discovery from the Zahaus. Seems the people who brought the case to court won't answer his questions. Why? Because they made the entire ridiculous story up.

Despite many promises, including some before the Court, Plaintiffs have not yet provided complete and substantive responses to all of Mr. Shacknai's first and second sets of written discovery. Counsel for Mr. Shacknai has extensively meet and conferred with Plaintiffs' counsel,
in writing and in person as well as appearing before this Court, in an effort to informally resolve issues related to the sufficiency of Plaintiffs' responses (or lack thereof). Despite these efforts, and repeated assurances from Plaintiffs' counsel that they will supplement their responses, Plaintiffs have done nothing. Mr. Shacknai is no further along in knowing the basis for Plaintiffs' claims than he was in July 2016 when he first served written discovery.

Enough is enough. Mr. Shacknai's deadline to file a motion for summary judgment is March 3. Thus, Mr. Shacknai requests that the Court set the hearing on his motions to compel for February 10, when the parties will already be before the Court for a hearing on Mr. Shacknai's motion for a protective order.

https://roa.sdcourt.ca.gov/roa/face...acknai_RE_Discovery_Dispute_1484525134929.pdf

 

[pomegranate]

The witchcraft book was most certainly Rebecca's

Link, please?

(quote snipped by me)

 

[LuckyLucy2]

^ It has already been linked from one of the investigative reports in one of the above posts.

 

[LuckyLucy2]

Wait, I thought you said before the tying up was some anime type *advertiser censored* that she looked like and copied? Now its witchcraft?
BTW, I own the book... if she DID practice, she'd have NEVER used red rope, let alone commit suicide with it.

Link please for the fact that Rebecca (someone you did not know, I presume) would NEVER use red rope (despite the fact that she did?). TIA

 

[K_Z]

Link, please?

(quote snipped by me)

The proverbial "elephant in the room" is that the book could have also belonged to one of the older Shacknai teens, who has some "interesting" emotional/ behavioral history. IMO, that's why it wasn't considered any kind of relevant psychological evidence related to Rebecca's death. Because it wasn't.

If the investigators had been interested in who that book belonged to, where it came from, and when, there were many, many people who could have answered those questions. Caretakers, housekeepers, Jonah, his older teens, Dina, etc.

Not a single *relevant* witness or investigator, has said that book belonged to Rebecca. Only one poster, at this one discussion site, who is clearly "speculating".

 

[LuckyLucy2]

Ha! Attorney Greer is pitifully asking his few Twitter followers for "witnesses" to Zahaus non-existent "murder". What a crock. He has NOTHING.

 

[Imp]

Link, please?

(quote snipped by me)

No need for a link, pomegranate, because "LE would have asked Jonah whose it was" (whose book it was). That appears to be exactly the problem with this case. The "death investigators" simply queried Jonah whenever they had a question, and Jonah provided the answer. That way everyone got the "evidence" they needed to bolster the suicide ruling. No need to forensically analyze evidence when all you have to do is "ask Jonah."

The investigation into Rebecca's brutal murder was quite deliberately botched and corrupted bottom to top, side to side. Imo, of course.