IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #22

[GangaMa]

"Delphi, Indiana: Family of murdered girls expected to speak publicly on Thursday"

http://www.theindychannel.com/news/...-girls-expected-to-speak-publicly-on-thursday

This article only mentions the grandfather, not other family members, so we'll have to wait and see what happens. I myself would not be able to speak at a pc if I were a parent of either of these girls. You'd have to hold me up by my armpits.

 

[Sillybilly]

Question for Tricia, sillybilly or any mods available: can we post the crowdfunding site for Abby? I think Libby's has been posted and they have raised over $10,000. Abby's site has barely hit $5,000. I thought maybe folks would want to help shore up Abby's mom. She seems to be all on her own.

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You can provide a link only (so members can view for themselves) but Websleuths does not allow discussion about fundraising.

 

[Jax49]

This article only mentions the grandfather, not other family members, so we'll have to wait and see what happens. I myself would not be able to speak at a pc if I were a parent of either of these girls. You'd have to hold me up by my armpits.

No way I'd be able to speak. Plus, everyone word, expression, etc., will be picked to pieces.

 

[relay]

Despite LE saying that it is more likely than not that he knew the girls, I am doubting that by now. Seems close to impossible he has not been identified if he lives locally or in nearby counties. But who knows...jmo. Though if he was just passing through or has since left the area, it may be a long time indeed before he is caught.

Do you have a link for this? Perhaps I overlooked it, but I have not noted that LE stated it was more likely than not that the murderer knew the girls.

 

[carpeverum]

... and I like your user name ... truth.

Thanks! :tyou: I like yours because it's the name of one of my favorite songs! ♥ ♫ ♥

 

[kytty]

In Lyric and Elizabeth's case, it was never reported they had DNA evidence. However, when LE conclusively ruled out Michael Klunder, I began to think perhaps they did have DNA. Another item of interest....they have not released the COD for Lyric and Elizabeth because it's something "only the killer would know". LE is also withholding COD in this case. Hopefully LE in both cases have compared MOs. It just seems like there are so many similarities imo.
https://iowacoldcases.org/case-summaries/lyric-cook-and-elizabeth-collins/

 

[Momma2cam]

This is an article about an unrelated recent case but I found the quote regarding time of death interesting as it relates to ongoing discussion about the differences in L&A's obituaries.

This is the official time of death from the autopsy completed within 2 days of finding her body. It does raise some suspicion that maybe there is more to the time of death listed in the obits if it officially came from the coroner and is due to the manner of death, differences in how the bodies were found, etc.

Or, maybe it is totally irrelevant and I'm reaching.

http://www.dailyjournal.net/2017/03/07/woman_dies_trying_to_rescue_dog/

"The coroner’s office is using the time Watts was found as the time of death, Nolting said. Investigators cannot determine her exact time of death because of circumstances surrounding the incident, including the river water depth, speed of the current and other factors, he said."

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[OtisC]

Hello everyone, a very long time lurker here. I have really enjoyed reading your thoughts and opinions on so many topics. I thought I would join.

Here are my thoughts.

This location is very interesting in that it is rural yet one would expect activity on the trails. BG must be comfortable in a rural areas based on his attire and his ability to maneuver the girls to a more secluded location. I believe he acted alone.

I would have thought that he had been to this area more than a few times in order to setup this crime. However, I am doubting that since no one claims to have seen him (to our knowledge) on the trails before.

I am not sure if his main focus, before the attack, was the location or the girls. In other words, had he scouted the girls and chose the location based on their activity or had he scouted the area and waited for the right time and victim(s)?

I believe he parked at the cemetery and walked to the creek then on to the trail. He may have done this previously if he scouted the area.

I believe he passed the girls then turned around, followed to gauge their fear, then waited for the right time and location. I don't think much time passed from the initial encounter to him directing them to leave the trail.

I think his intent was a sexual assault. I am not positive he intended to kill them but it is likely.

I am at a loss as to how he controlled both girls. He may have used a gun to threaten them but, based on a fear of being heard and the "pristine" comment by the land owner, I don't think he used the gun to kill them. That leads me to think he constrained (at least one of) them with rope while attacking the other. Looking at his jacket in the picture, it shows plenty of room inside for rope and other items.

I think the attack occurred at or close to where they were found. I just don't see him taking them away and bringing them back.

I do think he left behind DNA. I would think it is difficult not to leave DNA. If he was that careful, I don't think LE would have the audio recording. That recording leads me to believe that at least one phone was left at the scene or close by.

Most likely, either the DNA or a tip from someone who is around him somewhat regularly will be what gets him connected to this crime. This could take months or years. I hope my guess on timing is way overstated and he is caught soon.

Sorry for the long post and thanks for letting me get out my opinions. The above is my opinion only.

 

[njcanuck]

IMO, there is something decidedly different and/or more cruel about this crime to warrant a massive amount of billboards and press coverage, plus a high reward. OR, LE does, in fact, suspect it's the work of a SK.

This is what LE has said about SK theory http://www.theindychannel.com/news/...se-dont-spread-rumors-in-delphi-investigation

 

[cluciano63]

Gomez said he thinks it's "more probable than not" that the suspect knew the girls.

"Suspects tend to prey on people that they either know or they know of, so they know that they have an opportunity to commit that crime," he said. "In this case, these two victims were at a location [where] the suspect or suspects were able to catch them at a vulnerable stage."

When my sister was murdered I remember someone saying that most murders are committed by someone the victim knows.

The man who murdered my sister had only been out of jail nine days and had seen her where she worked. He plotted and took her from there.

They are very cunning in stalking their prey. Most are very intelligent even. The person who got these little girls is not dumb. He reminds me so much of the man who killed my sister...(He is in prison.)

The man that killed my sister shows no emotion. I imagine this man to be like this...what he did does not bother him. He probably went home changed his clothes and went out like nothing ever happened. This is what my sister's killer did...

He will get the urge again and find another victim...He has to be found.


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Who is Gomez? I think I mistakenly took him as LE.

 

[TTF14]

In Lyric and Elizabeth's case, it was never reported they had DNA evidence. However, when LE conclusively ruled out Michael Klunder, I began to think perhaps they did have DNA. Another item of interest....they have not released the COD for Lyric and Elizabeth because it's something "only the killer would know". LE is also withholding COD in this case. Hopefully LE in both cases have compared MOs. It just seems like there are so many similarities imo.
https://iowacoldcases.org/case-summaries/lyric-cook-and-elizabeth-collins/

I think it's often more like, "it's something only the informant would know." For example, someone turns in the killer and says, "he told me he shot both girls between the eyes," that is very specific. If the informant says, "he strangled them," when they were actually shot between the eyes, the informant is not credible.

 

[Deltucky]

Hello everyone, a very long time lurker here. I have really enjoyed reading your thoughts and opinions on so many topics. I thought I would join.

Here are my thoughts.

This location is very interesting in that it is rural yet one would expect activity on the trails. BG must be comfortable in a rural areas based on his attire and his ability to maneuver the girls to a more secluded location. I believe he acted alone.

I would have thought that he had been to this area more than a few times in order to setup this crime. However, I am doubting that since no one claims to have seen him (to our knowledge) on the trails before.

I am not sure if his main focus, before the attack, was the location or the girls. In other words, had he scouted the girls and chose the location based on their activity or had he scouted the area and waited for the right time and victim(s)?

I believe he parked at the cemetery and walked to the creek then on to the trail. He may have done this previously if he scouted the area.

I believe he passed the girls then turned around, followed to gauge their fear, then waited for the right time and location. I don't think much time passed from the initial encounter to him directing them to leave the trail.

I think his intent was a sexual assault. I am not positive he intended to kill them but it is likely.

I am at a loss as to how he controlled both girls. He may have used a gun to threaten them but, based on a fear of being heard and the "pristine" comment by the land owner, I don't think he used the gun to kill them. That leads me to think he constrained (at least one of) them with rope while attacking the other. Looking at his jacket in the picture, it shows plenty of room inside for rope and other items.

I think the attack occurred at or close to where they were found. I just don't see him taking them away and bringing them back.

I do think he left behind DNA. I would think it is difficult not to leave DNA. If he was that careful, I don't think LE would have the audio recording. That recording leads me to believe that at least one phone was left at the scene or close by.

Most likely, either the DNA or a tip from someone who is around him somewhat regularly will be what gets him connected to this crime. This could take months or years. I hope my guess on timing is way overstated and he is caught soon.

Sorry for the long post and thanks for letting me get out my opinions. The above is my opinion only.

Welcome aboard!!! We're glad you joined!!!

 

[RatKat]

Ok, so I would like to know, if the girls had ever hiked there alone before, OR if this would be their first time to be there. Also, I so wish we knew what the girls had been doing the night prior, and the morning beforehand. I am assuming it was all innocent, but there is still that thought that perhaps they came in contact with him earlier in the day or the night before. So when they saw him again on the bridge they were immediately concerned and that's why she started filming him. She automatically felt something was off, since they had seen him at some other point in time.

Or, did he pass them once and they didn't think to much of it, and then when he came up behind them again they were spooked and then started recording. So maybe he passed by them on the bridge more than once and that's why they recorded him?

Sorry for the rambling, just trying to figure out why else she would record a stranger walking their way on the bridge? I mean I'm sure if there was just a random person walking my direction I would just attempt to move over and keep going.

I have taken pictures of a man I hadn't seen before while I was jogging on a remote road I always ran on. I was a little scared of him & thought if he saw me do it he wouldn't bother me.

 

[Evania]

Hello everyone, a very long time lurker here. I have really enjoyed reading your thoughts and opinions on so many topics. I thought I would join.

Here are my thoughts.

This location is very interesting in that it is rural yet one would expect activity on the trails. BG must be comfortable in a rural areas based on his attire and his ability to maneuver the girls to a more secluded location. I believe he acted alone.

I would have thought that he had been to this area more than a few times in order to setup this crime. However, I am doubting that since no one claims to have seen him (to our knowledge) on the trails before.

I am not sure if his main focus, before the attack, was the location or the girls. In other words, had he scouted the girls and chose the location based on their activity or had he scouted the area and waited for the right time and victim(s)?

I believe he parked at the cemetery and walked to the creek then on to the trail. He may have done this previously if he scouted the area.

I believe he passed the girls then turned around, followed to gauge their fear, then waited for the right time and location. I don't think much time passed from the initial encounter to him directing them to leave the trail.

I think his intent was a sexual assault. I am not positive he intended to kill them but it is likely.

I am at a loss as to how he controlled both girls. He may have used a gun to threaten them but, based on a fear of being heard and the "pristine" comment by the land owner, I don't think he used the gun to kill them. That leads me to think he constrained (at least one of) them with rope while attacking the other. Looking at his jacket in the picture, it shows plenty of room inside for rope and other items.

I think the attack occurred at or close to where they were found. I just don't see him taking them away and bringing them back.

I do think he left behind DNA. I would think it is difficult not to leave DNA. If he was that careful, I don't think LE would have the audio recording. That recording leads me to believe that at least one phone was left at the scene or close by.

Most likely, either the DNA or a tip from someone who is around him somewhat regularly will be what gets him connected to this crime. This could take months or years. I hope my guess on timing is way overstated and he is caught soon.

Sorry for the long post and thanks for letting me get out my opinions. The above is my opinion only.

I think you're right on the money.

Welcome btw!!!

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[Elley Mae]

Does anyone know how many different images have been released of the suspect?

 

[mpnola]

I have had creepy guys come towards me many times and never called 911.

The only time I did call 911, the operator took at least 3 minutes getting information from me, which I tried to whisper and had to then raise my voice to repeat, and it took police a full 10-15 minutes to arrive. Neither of which would've gone over well for the girls on the bridge anyway I wouldn't think.

And second guessing the victims' choices only hurts the family members reading here and helps absolutely nothing whatsoever. I recall having to say this in Lyric and Elizabeth's threads as well numerous times.

I am way behind but Thank you so much. I didn't want to have to explain this again. I love your explanation.

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[skibaboo]

Who is Gomez? I think I mistakenly took him as LE.

ABC News contributor and former FBI agent Steve Gomez, who is not involved in the Delphi case, told ABC News today that having the FBI and the state police involved "is incredibly important."

"You clearly have somebody or a number of people that are sick — they committed a double homicide — and the fear is that this is going to happen again [or] already happened before these two victims," he said. "Other agencies that have vast resources and expertise is very important. The state police have boots on the ground in the state of Indiana, which is going to be very vital to pursue all these leads in a timely manner. And the FBI not only provides resources and coordination across state lines. The FBI also specializes in behavioral analysis to try to rebuild a profile of the person or persons who may have been involved in this murder."

ETA: Sorry, the rest of what he says is at the link^

 

[liltexans]

Hello everyone, a very long time lurker here. I have really enjoyed reading your thoughts and opinions on so many topics. I thought I would join.

Here are my thoughts.

This location is very interesting in that it is rural yet one would expect activity on the trails. BG must be comfortable in a rural areas based on his attire and his ability to maneuver the girls to a more secluded location. I believe he acted alone.

I would have thought that he had been to this area more than a few times in order to setup this crime. However, I am doubting that since no one claims to have seen him (to our knowledge) on the trails before.

I am not sure if his main focus, before the attack, was the location or the girls. In other words, had he scouted the girls and chose the location based on their activity or had he scouted the area and waited for the right time and victim(s)?

I believe he parked at the cemetery and walked to the creek then on to the trail. He may have done this previously if he scouted the area.

I believe he passed the girls then turned around, followed to gauge their fear, then waited for the right time and location. I don't think much time passed from the initial encounter to him directing them to leave the trail.

I think his intent was a sexual assault. I am not positive he intended to kill them but it is likely.

I am at a loss as to how he controlled both girls. He may have used a gun to threaten them but, based on a fear of being heard and the "pristine" comment by the land owner, I don't think he used the gun to kill them. That leads me to think he constrained (at least one of) them with rope while attacking the other. Looking at his jacket in the picture, it shows plenty of room inside for rope and other items.

I think the attack occurred at or close to where they were found. I just don't see him taking them away and bringing them back.

I do think he left behind DNA. I would think it is difficult not to leave DNA. If he was that careful, I don't think LE would have the audio recording. That recording leads me to believe that at least one phone was left at the scene or close by.

Most likely, either the DNA or a tip from someone who is around him somewhat regularly will be what gets him connected to this crime. This could take months or years. I hope my guess on timing is way overstated and he is caught soon.

Sorry for the long post and thanks for letting me get out my opinions. The above is my opinion only.

Welcome to Websleuths!

:wagon:

 

[IshKlosh]

Just got word that a friend of my co-worker (Muncie, IN) was visited by the state police today after being reported by his ex as the possible BG. I am sure he has been cleared but I wanted to share this bit of information as encouragement that the IN police are taking every tip very seriously and following up on any leads. If you have any information please don't be shy about reporting. The police should be able to clear someone quickly.

 

[OtisC]

Ok, so I would like to know, if the girls had ever hiked there alone before, OR if this would be their first time to be there. Also, I so wish we knew what the girls had been doing the night prior, and the morning beforehand. I am assuming it was all innocent, but there is still that thought that perhaps they came in contact with him earlier in the day or the night before. So when they saw him again on the bridge they were immediately concerned and that's why she started filming him. She automatically felt something was off, since they had seen him at some other point in time.

Or, did he pass them once and they didn't think to much of it, and then when he came up behind them again they were spooked and then started recording. So maybe he passed by them on the bridge more than once and that's why they recorded him?

Sorry for the rambling, just trying to figure out why else she would record a stranger walking their way on the bridge? I mean I'm sure if there was just a random person walking my direction I would just attempt to move over and keep going.

Those are great questions.

It is possible that he had contact with them before the hiking trip. When i say "contact", they may not have been aware of it. He may have seen them elsewhere earlier in the day. While possible, I still believe that this crime is more closely connected to the setting than these specific girls.

I think there are two (maybe more) reasonable assumptions about why he was filmed. 1) It was purely "accidental or random" while filming each other 2) They had an elevated level of fear based on his actions (either immediate or their recognition of him from an earlier contact).

I wish there was not a need for the video but thankful LE has this valuable information.

The above is my opinion only.