Was Burke Involved # 5

[Granny2SamSon]

I think he is referring to moving the plane onto the Tarmac, runway known as "taxiing" not as in taking a taxi to the airport.

 

[UKGuy]

TT: About what time did you guys plan on leaving the house?
JR: We needed to leave by 6:30 a.m., because we were going to take off about 7:00 a.m., because we were meeting John and Melinda in Minneapolis.
TT: You guys were going to taxi to fly out by 7:00 a.m.
JR: Uh-huh.
TT: What time were you planning on getting up; what time did guys get up?
JR: Well the alarm was set for 5:30 a.m., I woke up a little before that, before the alarm went off.


So think about that, Patsy is coming downstairs at 5:45 to make coffee. Coffee takes at least 10 minutes to perk and another 10 to drink. And nobody has made any mention of calling the cab. These people have to leave the house in 45 minutes and both kids are in bed, suitcases are all over the house, John is still shaving, and they are making coffee???

andreww,
They were flying out on vacation, bags were ready, etc. So how they get to the airport is a moot point, particularly once they discover the RN?

.

 

[andreww]

andreww,
They were flying out on vacation, bags were ready, etc. So how they get to the airport is a moot point, particularly once they discover the RN?

.

That is not the point. The point is that their time frame does not indicate that they were intending on leaving at 6:30. It is already 5:45 and Patsy is just coming downstairs to make coffee. Both kids are still in bed. They need to be readied and dressed. John indicates that they were taking a taxi but in none of their testimony has either one indicated that they phoned a cab or were about to phone a cab. No pre-booked taxi showed up either.

When my wife and I go to the airport we get up about an hour before we have to leave, but we don't have two children to worry about. Our bags are at the front door waiting for us. Were the Ramsey's suitcases at their front door? Was the taxi ordered? Nope, 45 minutes before they leave and Patsy is making coffee, rinsing stuff in the laundry room. I don't buy it.

 

[UKGuy]

That is not the point. The point is that their time frame does not indicate that they were intending on leaving at 6:30. It is already 5:45 and Patsy is just coming downstairs to make coffee. Both kids are still in bed. They need to be readied and dressed. John indicates that they were taking a taxi but in none of their testimony has either one indicated that they phoned a cab or were about to phone a cab. No pre-booked taxi showed up either.

When my wife and I go to the airport we get up about an hour before we have to leave, but we don't have two children to worry about. Our bags are at the front door waiting for us. Were the Ramsey's suitcases at their front door? Was the taxi ordered? Nope, 45 minutes before they leave and Patsy is making coffee, rinsing stuff in the laundry room. I don't buy it.

andreww,
Sure, but knowing all that, tells you what? No taxi ...

Ask the R's what answer do you expect? Well I saw the RN and forgot all about the taxi.

We know the R's story is fake, not ordering a taxi does not make it anymore fake, alike fake news on the internet, just a little fake, or plain bogus?

.

 

[AndHence]

What Ramsey apologists always forget is that they had to call 911 when they did because they were due to flight out that morning. Had they canceled their flight but not called 911 until later to report JonBenet missing it would look too suspicious.

 

[FinallyRegistered]

That is not the point. The point is that their time frame does not indicate that they were intending on leaving at 6:30. It is already 5:45 and Patsy is just coming downstairs to make coffee. Both kids are still in bed. They need to be readied and dressed. John indicates that they were taking a taxi but in none of their testimony has either one indicated that they phoned a cab or were about to phone a cab. No pre-booked taxi showed up either.

When my wife and I go to the airport we get up about an hour before we have to leave, but we don't have two children to worry about. Our bags are at the front door waiting for us. Were the Ramsey's suitcases at their front door? Was the taxi ordered? Nope, 45 minutes before they leave and Patsy is making coffee, rinsing stuff in the laundry room. I don't buy it.

Just to set the record straight, when "taxi" was mentioned it is in airport lingo, not taxi/Uber/cab lingo. They were driving themselves to the airport.

"TT: You guys were going to taxi to fly out by 7:00 a.m."

And, one more thing, PR stated that for private flights, she packed in trash bags, and those bags of clothes were by the door. As I recall, the luggage she was packing in Jr's room was for the Big Red boat cruise after they returned from xmas.

I still think everything out of the mouth of a Ramsey was/is a lie, I just want the known facts to be facts here.

 

[andreww]

Just to set the record straight, when "taxi" was mentioned it is in airport lingo, not taxi/Uber/cab lingo. They were driving themselves to the airport.

"TT: You guys were going to taxi to fly out by 7:00 a.m."

And, one more thing, PR stated that for private flights, she packed in trash bags, and those bags of clothes were by the door. As I recall, the luggage she was packing in Jr's room was for the Big Red boat cruise after they returned from xmas.

I still think everything out of the mouth of a Ramsey was/is a lie, I just want the known facts to be facts here.

You sure about that?

JR: We needed to leave by 6:30 a.m., because we were going to take off about 7:00 a.m., because we were meeting John and Melinda in Minneapolis.
TT: You guys were going to taxi to fly out by 7:00 a.m.

John seems to be saying something and Thomas is confirming by repeating it. Not sure why Thomas would feel the need to use pilot lingo when he wasn't a pilot? In fact I've never heard anybody say that when asking somebody what time they were going to fly at. And John has already said "takeoff at 7", wouldn't taxiing be earlier than that?

 

[FinallyRegistered]

We do know that JR drove to the airport to drop off packages the day before. So, that tells us that the plane is in a designated hanger with designated parking, not situated in a commercial airport.



1. You don't need a ride to the airport because there is a designated parking lot for the hanger/flight hub.

2. "Taxi" in private-plane lingo is the scheduled time for the private plane to use the airstrip. See terminology: https://www.paramountbusinessjets.com/aviation-terminology/taxi-time.html

 

[UKGuy]

We do know that JR drove to the airport to drop off packages the day before. So, that tells us that the plane is in a designated hanger with designated parking, not situated in a commercial airport.



1. You don't need a ride to the airport because there is a designated parking lot for the hanger/flight hub.

2. "Taxi" in private-plane lingo is the scheduled time for the private plane to use the airstrip. See terminology: https://www.paramountbusinessjets.com/aviation-terminology/taxi-time.html

FinallyRegistered,
That all makes sense to me. Plus along with the use of Taxi comes a degree of imprecise timing.

.

 

[andreww]

andreww,
They were flying out on vacation, bags were ready, etc. So how they get to the airport is a moot point, particularly once they discover the RN?

.

Here are some miscellaneous quotes from Patsy's interviews that explain why I am so frustrated with her timeline that morning;

PR:**Okay. Um, we got up at about 5:30
So she awoke at 5:30

PR:**I awakened*that morning, probably somewhere between 5:30*and 6
Oops, now its between 5:30 and 6:00. Doesn't she know she'd already called 911 by then?

PR:**We are going to take off for the airport just at 7
Flight is at 7:00

TOM HANEY: Okay. And how long do*you think all that in the bathroom took?
PR:**Oh, 20, 30 minutes.
Wait a minute? Even at the low end, she still had to be up before 5:30

TOM HANEY: Okay. So we are still at the ironing board and this little red outfit.*What do you do with that, how long does that*take?
PR:**Just, I don't know,*just a few minutes.
Okay, she kills a few more minutes

TOM HANEY: So you're in the*laundry, you say you spent a couple of minutes*there, two, five?
PR:**Probably five or*ten. You know.
Five or ten minutes? Thats 25 - 40 minutes she's accounted for since awakening.

PR:**I was just thinking he wanted*to take off at 7, so it means we had to leave*the house about 6:30, and I usually get up about*45 minutes, half an hour, 45 minutes to an hour*earlier
Here she confirms that they are to leave the house at 6:30

PR:**We had to leave at 7 because we had*to meet Melinda and John Andrew. Normally it*doesn't matter whether you're five or ten*minutes late, you're not meeting anything, you*are not on a schedule, but we were rendezvousing*with them, they were flying commercially from*Atlanta to Minneapolis, so we had to take off at*7 to meet their flight in Minneapolis
Here she confirms that it is important that they be on time


TT: Okay, um, what was you going downstairs for?
PR: Oh, to make coffee and kind of get a little breakfast ready
Okay, plenty of time to kill?


TT:**Okay. So you were going to get to the airport about, a little before seven so you could take off at seven?
PR:**Yeah, we were going to get there about a half hour before.
Wait what? Now she is saying that they are going to be at the airport by 6:30? Does she mean they will be in Minneapolis 30 mins early?

TT:**Okay. So, you were going to try to get out there by 6:30 to meet him by seven and take off.
PR:**Yeah.
Nope, she's going to be at the airport by 6:30


Checking Google maps the closest airport is twenty minutes from the house. So, to arrive 30 mins early, they need to be out of the house at 6:10. John has stated that he set the alarm at 5:30, which leaves 40 minutes to get ready. Patsy has at a minimum spent 25 minutes getting ready (we already know this is BS because that goes beyond the 911 call time) but that would leave 15 minutes to spare. Patsy is coming downstairs to make coffee and breakfast, and the kids are supposedly still asleep! Nobody else sees a problem with all this? Yet investigators never again question her about this timeline making absolutely no sense.

I believe all that she said was what she had actually planned for, excepting their actual wakeup time which I feel was likely an hour earlier. I believe that the were unready to call 911 at 4:45 (when they normally would have discovered her missing) so they had to rework their wakeup time to 5:30, and Patsy's timeline is all over the place because of that.

 

[UKGuy]

Here are some miscellaneous quotes from Patsy's interviews that explain why I am so frustrated with her timeline that morning;

PR:**Okay. Um, we got up at about 5:30
So she awoke at 5:30

PR:**I awakened*that morning, probably somewhere between 5:30*and 6
Oops, now its between 5:30 and 6:00. Doesn't she know she'd already called 911 by then?

PR:**We are going to take off for the airport just at 7
Flight is at 7:00

TOM HANEY: Okay. And how long do*you think all that in the bathroom took?
PR:**Oh, 20, 30 minutes.
Wait a minute? Even at the low end, she still had to be up before 5:30

TOM HANEY: Okay. So we are still at the ironing board and this little red outfit.*What do you do with that, how long does that*take?
PR:**Just, I don't know,*just a few minutes.
Okay, she kills a few more minutes

TOM HANEY: So you're in the*laundry, you say you spent a couple of minutes*there, two, five?
PR:**Probably five or*ten. You know.
Five or ten minutes? Thats 25 - 40 minutes she's accounted for since awakening.

PR:**I was just thinking he wanted*to take off at 7, so it means we had to leave*the house about 6:30, and I usually get up about*45 minutes, half an hour, 45 minutes to an hour*earlier
Here she confirms that they are to leave the house at 6:30

PR:**We had to leave at 7 because we had*to meet Melinda and John Andrew. Normally it*doesn't matter whether you're five or ten*minutes late, you're not meeting anything, you*are not on a schedule, but we were rendezvousing*with them, they were flying commercially from*Atlanta to Minneapolis, so we had to take off at*7 to meet their flight in Minneapolis
Here she confirms that it is important that they be on time


TT: Okay, um, what was you going downstairs for?
PR: Oh, to make coffee and kind of get a little breakfast ready
Okay, plenty of time to kill?


TT:**Okay. So you were going to get to the airport about, a little before seven so you could take off at seven?
PR:**Yeah, we were going to get there about a half hour before.
Wait what? Now she is saying that they are going to be at the airport by 6:30? Does she mean they will be in Minneapolis 30 mins early?

TT:**Okay. So, you were going to try to get out there by 6:30 to meet him by seven and take off.
PR:**Yeah.
Nope, she's going to be at the airport by 6:30


Checking Google maps the closest airport is twenty minutes from the house. So, to arrive 30 mins early, they need to be out of the house at 6:10. John has stated that he set the alarm at 5:30, which leaves 40 minutes to get ready. Patsy has at a minimum spent 25 minutes getting ready (we already know this is BS because that goes beyond the 911 call time) but that would leave 15 minutes to spare. Patsy is coming downstairs to make coffee and breakfast, and the kids are supposedly still asleep! Nobody else sees a problem with all this? Yet investigators never again question her about this timeline making absolutely no sense.

I believe all that she said was what she had actually planned for, excepting their actual wakeup time which I feel was likely an hour earlier. I believe that the were unready to call 911 at 4:45 (when they normally would have discovered her missing) so they had to rework their wakeup time to 5:30, and Patsy's timeline is all over the place because of that.

andreww,
The timing above suggests that the R's were very late that morning simply because they were busy staging the wine-cellar crime-scene.

Consider they had the best part of five hours to get the details right, and they failed, e.g. breakfast bar, another indicator they were in a hurry?

Pick your favorite RDI theory and add in that it was revised at the last moment, this should explain away Patsy being behind schedule?

So in my case it's BR's staging of JonBenet in her bedroom that is revised down to the basement?

.

 

[MURDERER_SERVANT]

Hey guys ..There's an interesting note on jameson website said to be from
Steve Thomas' notes on 26 December which I have heard the first time.. ..it comes from sort of a timeline there ..

13:00 - Heather Cox answered the phone and was told by someone unknown to bring Burke Ramsey back to the Ramsey home. Actually the person is known to be Priscilla White..

http://www.webbsleuths.org/showthread.php?tid=365

 

[UKGuy]

Hey guys ..There's an interesting note on jameson website said to be from
Steve Thomas' notes on 26 December which I have heard the first time.. ..it comes from sort of a timeline there ..

13:00 - Heather Cox answered the phone and was told by someone unknown to bring Burke Ramsey back to the Ramsey home. Actually the person is known to be Priscilla White..

http://www.webbsleuths.org/showthread.php?tid=365

MURDERER_SERVANT,
You have to wonder why that merits a note, particularly if nothing then happened?

Of course anything from that site might lack objectivity, so who knows how accurate these notes are?

.

 

[kanzz]

Hey guys ..There's an interesting note on jameson website said to be from
Steve Thomas' notes on 26 December which I have heard the first time.. ..it comes from sort of a timeline there ..

13:00 - Heather Cox answered the phone and was told by someone unknown to bring Burke Ramsey back to the Ramsey home. Actually the person is known to be Priscilla White..

http://www.webbsleuths.org/showthread.php?tid=365

So, it sounds as though she's saying she transcribed this from ST's notes. I remember seeing copies of LE notes somewhere recently, but I don't think I saved anything. I'll do some searching. However, I'm not sure how significant this is. Somebody must have put the brakes on this idea.

 

[kanzz]

I do have some reports saved on my computer, but nothing from ST. I remembered where I saw reports & I scanned the page searching for one from ST, but didn't see anything. However, there are many images in no particular order on this page and I don't have much patience right now.
https://shakedowntitle.com/cases/jonbenet/

 

[UKGuy]

Here are some miscellaneous quotes from Patsy's interviews that explain why I am so frustrated with her timeline that morning;

PR:**Okay. Um, we got up at about 5:30
So she awoke at 5:30

PR:**I awakened*that morning, probably somewhere between 5:30*and 6
Oops, now its between 5:30 and 6:00. Doesn't she know she'd already called 911 by then?

PR:**We are going to take off for the airport just at 7
Flight is at 7:00

TOM HANEY: Okay. And how long do*you think all that in the bathroom took?
PR:**Oh, 20, 30 minutes.
Wait a minute? Even at the low end, she still had to be up before 5:30

TOM HANEY: Okay. So we are still at the ironing board and this little red outfit.*What do you do with that, how long does that*take?
PR:**Just, I don't know,*just a few minutes.
Okay, she kills a few more minutes

TOM HANEY: So you're in the*laundry, you say you spent a couple of minutes*there, two, five?
PR:**Probably five or*ten. You know.
Five or ten minutes? Thats 25 - 40 minutes she's accounted for since awakening.

PR:**I was just thinking he wanted*to take off at 7, so it means we had to leave*the house about 6:30, and I usually get up about*45 minutes, half an hour, 45 minutes to an hour*earlier
Here she confirms that they are to leave the house at 6:30

PR:**We had to leave at 7 because we had*to meet Melinda and John Andrew. Normally it*doesn't matter whether you're five or ten*minutes late, you're not meeting anything, you*are not on a schedule, but we were rendezvousing*with them, they were flying commercially from*Atlanta to Minneapolis, so we had to take off at*7 to meet their flight in Minneapolis
Here she confirms that it is important that they be on time


TT: Okay, um, what was you going downstairs for?
PR: Oh, to make coffee and kind of get a little breakfast ready
Okay, plenty of time to kill?


TT:**Okay. So you were going to get to the airport about, a little before seven so you could take off at seven?
PR:**Yeah, we were going to get there about a half hour before.
Wait what? Now she is saying that they are going to be at the airport by 6:30? Does she mean they will be in Minneapolis 30 mins early?

TT:**Okay. So, you were going to try to get out there by 6:30 to meet him by seven and take off.
PR:**Yeah.
Nope, she's going to be at the airport by 6:30


Checking Google maps the closest airport is twenty minutes from the house. So, to arrive 30 mins early, they need to be out of the house at 6:10. John has stated that he set the alarm at 5:30, which leaves 40 minutes to get ready. Patsy has at a minimum spent 25 minutes getting ready (we already know this is BS because that goes beyond the 911 call time) but that would leave 15 minutes to spare. Patsy is coming downstairs to make coffee and breakfast, and the kids are supposedly still asleep! Nobody else sees a problem with all this? Yet investigators never again question her about this timeline making absolutely no sense.

I believe all that she said was what she had actually planned for, excepting their actual wakeup time which I feel was likely an hour earlier. I believe that the were unready to call 911 at 4:45 (when they normally would have discovered her missing) so they had to rework their wakeup time to 5:30, and Patsy's timeline is all over the place because of that.

andreww,
Having given it further thought, also this subject links with a reply in the The oversized Bloomingdale’s panties. thread.

If you can accept that the R's were late that morning due to extended staging down in the basement, I reckon this suggests the parents only became aware of JonBenet early that morning, likely when one of them rose?

If the case is JDI or PDI, then they had effectively all night to stage a crime-scene, yet they left the breakfast bar intact, JonBenet's bedroom was in a mess, and JonBenet was wearing Burke's long johns and Patsy's niece's size-12 underwear.

If the case is PDI and Patsy has all night to normalize JonBenet's appearance and stage a crime scene why dress JonBenet as she was found?

It might be Patsy is intent on framing Burke, at a minimum, obscuring the crime-scene with various artifact?

What I reckon, is the parents found JonBenet dressed as described, one of the parents wiped JonBenet down, explaining the Coroners verbatim finding, and on the surface it seems like they re-engineered Burke's prior staging to a scenario that looked more realistic to them.

So JR wiped JonBenet down as fibers from his Israeli manufactured shirt were found on JonBenet's genitals. Patsy fashioned the garrote with the previously used ligature, leaving her fibers in the knotting. After adding other miscellaneous touches, e.g. RN, they hid JonBenet away in the basement.

It would make sense if JonBenet was further assaulted internally by one of the parents using the paintbrush, hoping to mask the prior sexual assault.

The logic of the case mandates that Kolar is correct, i.e. BDI All, with the parents arriving late at the crime-scene, which with adult eyes they recognize the childish staging, so tweak it as best they could?



.

 

[k-mac]

andreww,
Having given it further thought, also this subject links with a reply in the The oversized Bloomingdale’s panties. thread.

If you can accept that the R's were late that morning due to extended staging down in the basement, I reckon this suggests the parents only became aware of JonBenet early that morning, likely when one of them rose?

If the case is JDI or PDI, then they had effectively all night to stage a crime-scene, yet they left the breakfast bar intact, JonBenet's bedroom was in a mess, and JonBenet was wearing Burke's long johns and Patsy's niece's size-12 underwear.

If the case is PDI and Patsy has all night to normalize JonBenet's appearance and stage a crime scene why dress JonBenet as she was found?

It might be Patsy is intent on framing Burke, at a minimum, obscuring the crime-scene with various artifact?

What I reckon, is the parents found JonBenet dressed as described, one of the parents wiped JonBenet down, explaining the Coroners verbatim finding, and on the surface it seems like they re-engineered Burke's prior staging to a scenario that looked more realistic to them.

So JR wiped JonBenet down as fibers from his Israeli manufactured shirt were found on JonBenet's genitals. Patsy fashioned the garrote with the previously used ligature, leaving her fibers in the knotting. After adding other miscellaneous touches, e.g. RN, they hid JonBenet away in the basement.

It would make sense if JonBenet was further assaulted internally by one of the parents using the paintbrush, hoping to mask the prior sexual assault.

The logic of the case mandates that Kolar is correct, i.e. BDI All, with the parents arriving late at the crime-scene, which with adult eyes they recognize the childish staging, so tweak it as best they could?



.

uk guy
with due respect.....that post is really grasping at straws to suit your bdi all.

you know and admit its fact JR and PR are tied to the strangulation together forensically.
the fact BR isn't you now wanna push they are framing BR?
you cant have it both ways....either this was an elaborate staging to protect BR or setting him up??? make up your mind.

personally I don't believe any such framing legit.

why cant you accept PR likely as she stated ...put JBR in those long johns.
its really not that bizaar.
the second that JBR died PR started distancing herself from her daughter. we've never heard a lovely kind sad remorseful comment about JBR come out of her mouth.
just because she wasn't dressed as a beauty queen doesn't disconnect PR.
this was a horror accident. the only thing on PR mind that night and there after was keeping HER OWN ARSE OUT OF JAIL.

just on another point i'd like to bring up that's been bugging me lately...so many people give JR a free pass in the death of JBR.....straight up JR was given two (or maybe it was three, its awhile ago I read it) legal reps...PR one and BR one.
interesting that immediately after the fact his lawyers were worried about keeping his arse out of jail.....

 

[UKGuy]

uk guy
with due respect.....that post is really grasping at straws to suit your bdi all.

you know and admit its fact JR and PR are tied to the strangulation together forensically.
the fact BR isn't you now wanna push they are framing BR?
you cant have it both ways....either this was an elaborate staging to protect BR or setting him up??? make up your mind.

personally I don't believe any such framing legit.

why cant you accept PR likely as she stated ...put JBR in those long johns.
its really not that bizaar.
the second that JBR died PR started distancing herself from her daughter. we've never heard a lovely kind sad remorseful comment about JBR come out of her mouth.
just because she wasn't dressed as a beauty queen doesn't disconnect PR.
this was a horror accident. the only thing on PR mind that night and there after was keeping HER OWN ARSE OUT OF JAIL.

just on another point i'd like to bring up that's been bugging me lately...so many people give JR a free pass in the death of JBR.....straight up JR was given two (or maybe it was three, its awhile ago I read it) legal reps...PR one and BR one.
interesting that immediately after the fact his lawyers were worried about keeping his arse out of jail.....

k-mac,

why cant you accept PR likely as she stated ...put JBR in those long johns.

Because Patsy might be lying, just as she did over the size-12 underwear.

IMO, by saying she dressed JonBenet in those long johns, she is covering for Burke Ramsey, same with the size-12's!

For PDI to be a runner you have to show there was no sexual assault. Hopefully Coroner Meyer might do an interview someday and drop a hint.

He had JonBenet's genitals examined twice that day, once by himself and again by another pediatrician that night, so there might have been both a staging and an assault which Meyer wished confirmed. He seemed fairly confident with his initial finding of sexual contact and digital penetration.

.

 

[k-mac]

k-mac,

Because Patsy might be lying, just as she did over the size-12 underwear.

IMO, by saying she dressed JonBenet in those long johns, she is covering for Burke Ramsey, same with the size-12's!

For PDI to be a runner you have to show there was no sexual assault. Hopefully Coroner Meyer might do an interview someday and drop a hint.

He had JonBenet's genitals examined twice that day, once by himself and again by another pediatrician that night, so there might have been both a staging and an assault which Meyer wished confirmed. He seemed fairly confident with his initial finding of sexual contact and digital penetration.

.

again why do you discount PDI for the sexual assault???
it is as much a possibility that the abuse was a chronic non sexual violation of jonbenet through douching over hygiene problems with this little girl as a sick pedo within her family.

you can not prove the assult was by a sexual deviat. it is simply interpretation.
I believe 100% PR was responsible for this abuse. and it was not for sexual gratification. quite the opposite.
this practice is far for common than you think.
of course this is just my opinion but it is just as validated as any other theory. can not be disproved.
douching applicators are the size of fingers but would be much more likely to do physical damage especially when we know there is a specific erosion spot.

 

[Annapurna]

again why do you discount PDI for the sexual assault???
it is as much a possibility that the abuse was a chronic non sexual violation of jonbenet through douching over hygiene problems with this little girl as a sick pedo within her family.

you can not prove the assult was by a sexual deviat. it is simply interpretation.
I believe 100% PR was responsible for this abuse. and it was not for sexual gratification. quite the opposite.
this practice is far for common than you think.
of course this is just my opinion but it is just as validated as any other theory. can not be disproved.
douching applicators are the size of fingers but would be much more likely to do physical damage especially when we know there is a specific erosion spot.

Just to add on: it's not impossible that PR was abusing her sexually. Mother on daughter sexual abuse is rare but not unheard of.

Not that I think she was the molester, just that it's not impossible.

I hadn't thought much about the douching theory, but your comment about the applicator reminded me of something from the AR. Dr. Meyer said that there was a "well defined bruise" bruises made by a finger do not have well defined edges, but a small object such as the applicator wand of a douche would.


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