Found Deceased MO - Toni Anderson, 20, North Kansas City, 15 Jan 2017 #5

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I was just at the top of that ramp today. Perfect place to roll a car into a giant river without being seen.
 
This has been a very mild winter here in KC. The river can get big chunks of ice, but I don't think it would have this year. It is a big, fast moving river that empties into the Mississippi.
 
MrX said:
I have an associate that is a Pathologist - I've sent him a question regarding expected condition of body and what evidence could still be gleaned. Does that river ever freeze, or does it move too fast?
Click to expand...

I hope the family has an independent autopsy before she's buried.
 
Very sad. I am still catching up but from what I've read I have a few comments ect.

So I don't have an opinion as to weather it was suicide, accident, or foul play. But at this point, I think all three are possible and it makes me sad to see some of the some what aggressive comments being made. JMO.

As far as the question of why she would have chosen drowning as a suicide method, who knows. But it certainly happens.
 
Just for reference on cars going into water - if you go to 35:45, you will see the reenactment of the car rolling into the water in the Susan Smith case - gives you an idea of how slow it takes for it to sink (when it goes straight in)

[video=youtube;kG1rK6ngKN4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kG1rK6ngKN4[/video]
 
My life. My husband acts like he doesn't listen or follow cases like I do. I was just getting ready to sit down with a glass of wine and reflect on the person "Toni" was, and my husband pops off "cops killed her. Didn't at first they said the didn't pull her over?".
I'm done...Here we go again.

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[FONT=&amp]-The footage being described is Toni leaving the traffic stop, not the gas station. This is apparently a slight of hand. A subliminal message, if you will.

-All three cars turn right, (which is south) a direction she could not possibly have gone according to Police saying she went to the QT immediately after. Her turning south is also consistent with where she told the officer she intended to go.

-The big problem is she failed to drive directly (east) across the street to fill her tank.

-This is a blatant cover-up that (IN REALITY) ends as a suicide or homicide. The accident excuse is complete and utter nonsense.

-The cop car applies its brakes as Toni pulls away, but we don't know about the mystery car. If that car followed Toni, then foul play is likely involved. THE ACTION BEGINS AROUND 3:15.

-The cops, media, and anyone interested in this case can only ignore these facts. It is a catch 22. She didn't go to the gas station and didn't drive north after she got her warning.

[video=youtube;gGMFd5OFij4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGMFd5OFij4[/video]

Kansas City woman vanishes after early-morning traffic stop; phone, GPS deactivated

And as Toni leaves the gas station to get back on the highway known as the Route 9 Corridor, you can see the cop who'd pulled her over continue to follow her until she is out of view of surveillance cameras.

"There is no visual evidence to show where she went," said Sgt. Caldwell.

It needs be said that there are many good people and investigators here. There is video evidence that Toni Anderson drove south away from the QT and 26th.

https://www.google.com/maps/@3 9.1477101,-94.5808062,3a,56.8y ,99.02h,66.59t/data=!3m6!1e1! 3m4!1sZ0vEbb5lt5BJfij61f7sfw! 2e0!7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.com/maps/@3 9.147283,-94.5812554,349m/data =!3m1!1e3

https://www.google.com/maps/pl ace/2600+Burlington+St,+North+ Kansas+City,+MO+64116/@39. 1477162,-94.5811318,3a,19.7y, 111.21h,87.01t/data=!3m6!1e1! 3m4!1sFFJB95JYAnQz23o1cIWPYQ! 2e0!7i13312!8i6656!4m5!3m4! 1s0x0:0x9471dc0324d42c28!8m2! 3d39.1478167!4d-94.580685!6m1! 1e1

https://www.google.com/maps/@3 9.1472907,-94.5803004,3a,88.3y ,68.99h,59.01t/data=!3m6!1e1! 3m4!1sD8IKdzADWNUExwhAeqm_ug! 2e0!7i13312!8i6656




[/FONT]
 
Here's my question - the ODB port in a 2014 Ford Focus is in a little panel by the driver's left knee. The vehicle won't drive with this panel open and you can't close it with snapshot installed. This to me seems huge in figuring out if Toni accidentally knocked it loose with her knee or if something more sinister is at play.

Think about it - the LEO would likely be aware of the snapshot. It could be mentioned on her insurance card or maybe she mentioned it ("oh man, hope this doesn't show on my snapshot").

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sophie taylor said:
[FONT=&amp]-The footage being described is Toni leaving the traffic stop, not the gas station. This is apparently a slight of hand. A subliminal message, if you will.

-All three cars turn right, (which is south) a direction she could not possibly have gone according to Police saying she went to the QT immediately after. Her turning south is also consistent with where she told the officer she intended to go.

-The big problem is she failed to drive directly (east) across the street to fill her tank.

-This is a blatant cover-up that (IN REALITY) ends as a suicide or homicide. The accident excuse is complete and utter nonsense.

-The cop car applies its brakes as Toni pulls away, but we don't know about the mystery car. If that car followed Toni, then foul play is likely involved. THE ACTION BEGINS AROUND 3:15.

-The cops, media, and anyone interested in this case can only ignore these facts. It is a catch 22. She didn't go to the gas station and didn't drive north after she got her warning.

[video=youtube;gGMFd5OFij4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGMFd5OFij4[/video]

Kansas City woman vanishes after early-morning traffic stop; phone, GPS deactivated

And as Toni leaves the gas station to get back on the highway known as the Route 9 Corridor, you can see the cop who'd pulled her over continue to follow her until she is out of view of surveillance cameras.
"There is no visual evidence to show where she went," said Sgt. Caldwell.

It needs be said that there are many good people and investigators here. There is video evidence that Toni Anderson drove south away from the QT and 26th.

https://www.google.com/maps/@3 9.1477101,-94.5808062,3a,56.8y ,99.02h,66.59t/data=!3m6!1e1! 3m4!1sZ0vEbb5lt5BJfij61f7sfw! 2e0!7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.com/maps/@3 9.147283,-94.5812554,349m/data =!3m1!1e3

https://www.google.com/maps/pl ace/2600+Burlington+St,+North+ Kansas+City,+MO+64116/@39. 1477162,-94.5811318,3a,19.7y, 111.21h,87.01t/data=!3m6!1e1! 3m4!1sFFJB95JYAnQz23o1cIWPYQ! 2e0!7i13312!8i6656!4m5!3m4! 1s0x0:0x9471dc0324d42c28!8m2! 3d39.1478167!4d-94.580685!6m1! 1e1

https://www.google.com/maps/@3 9.1472907,-94.5803004,3a,88.3y ,68.99h,59.01t/data=!3m6!1e1! 3m4!1sD8IKdzADWNUExwhAeqm_ug! 2e0!7i13312!8i6656




[/FONT]
Click to expand...
Whew. Lot of thought put in that.

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Looking at Toni's pictures, her posts, her speeding tickets and judging by my own mind when I was her age, it is totally 100% plausible that she was getting off of work, feeling depressed or pensive or wanting to just mellow out, took a drive, and lost control of her car. It was supposed to be icy that night. Whether or not the storm was as severe as they predicted, it did put down ice in many locations. I stayed home because the ice was possibly bad, but by the afternoon the roads were fine.

Many things are possible in this case, but I can see


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MaxManning said:
I just want to say that although I don't think this is something I would immediately think is probable off the bat, I think your description of it is convincing and actually reasonable given what little I do know about Toni's *spirit* from social media. I actually added it to my probability list after thinking about it for a few moments. Thank you for saying all this, because we have to take note of the person she was, not who we are and what we would do.
Click to expand...

Thanks, Max. That was really kind of you to say!
 
missgulfsouth said:
How does she get into the water at THIS location? I truly couldn't say. My best guess is that the car drifted over the 2 months. Details matter to me as well, the nagging unexplainables ... I like having all the t's crossed and i's dotted ... but things aren't always explainable. I've learned and found after working on cases here since 2007, that for whatever reason my gut instint so often turns out to be correct. Not 100% ... I was very wrong in the Sheri Papini case, Jenise Wright, and a couple of other cases. I tend to get a strong sense about a case and don't waiver from it. It happens in my every day dealings with people, too. I get strong impressions about them, sometimes alarming impressions, that turn out to be true. It's frightening sometimes, but it's a gift. I don't know anyone who pats themselves on the back here. I wanted water checked 2 months ago....it's two agonizing months of waiting for that family. That's not my idea of a good time or competition. I initially joined WS in 2007 on the Leah Hickman case, and have been here helping on countless cases since WS started. I CHOOSE to be here, none of us has to be. I try to help. I pray for every case, I feel for every family. I rejoice when they come home alive, and I weep when they don't. I went to school for Criminal Justice and a I'm the daughter of a retired police officer. Anyone who thinks this is a game of one-upmanship here doesn't know me at all.
Click to expand...

Absolutely, and I would hope no one here is actually more interested in being right than interest in people being found.

But my question comes from a logical direction. I know that many will take objection to what you have said and see it as arrogance or pride or whatever. But I think we have to acknowledge that there are people with gifts in this area, and I don't think that you should feel uncomfortable taking pride in your abilities. I know that might piss some people off, but that's called jealousy last time I checked.

I make a habit of listening to what people say and evaluating the logic of it all, that's why I asked you those questions. I'm not afraid to learn about something I am missing. I gave 3 theories that I think I have seen so far, but I was open to hearing if there was a reason why 1 or the other would be more logical in your experienced opinion. As I said, some people just get gut feelings or see something really simple that others miss, but is a huge factor.

In light of that, I am just asking which of these is what you believe or possibly another? :

1. The car came downstream 8 miles from a location to the west near where 9&435 intersect
2. The car came off the boatramp and went a few hundred feet downstream to the location it was found
3. The car went over the ridge to the east of the dog park and moved minimally or not at all and was in that location since that day

Those are the 3 that I think have been mentioned and each can suggest different probability of causation.

For example with 1, I would think that this is almost 99% an accident if that was the case. Why? she was likely moving at a high speed and was maybe tired or road conditions and visibility were the issue. It also makes sense that she might remove the gps to speed.

with #2 - it could still be an accident, but also possibly foul play. Why? because it just seems less likely that someone drives head on into water. Not that it couldn't happen, and I do think it's plausible even in that case it's just simply an accident.

with #3 - Is the one to me that would seem to also be a 99% chance that it's an accident. Makes complete sense she could swerve and go off the cliff or even lose consciousness/fall asleep.

So, I was just trying to determine from your logic what makes the most sense to you. Your comment seemed to suggest that either 1 or 2 would be what you were saying, but you weren't explicit.

I hope you don't think this is one-upmanship, as I'm just simply trying to discuss the logic of the conclusion you have drawn. You might even say it doesn't matter, but in some cases, it does. So it's worthwhile to explore them and question our own beliefs at times. -- if so, you might not have been wrong about the papini case or wright case as you suggested.

I do hope that we can all just take our minds off the whole being right thing and just evaluate things logically. It's not at all uncommon for people to believe 7 different ways on any given topic. So my questions are more about understanding everyones logic, not competition. I definitely say when I disagree, but I fully understand I am often wrong, even when the probability is high and I am in agreement with many. 1% probability exists because it's possible.
 
Jinkasaurus said:
Just for reference on cars going into water - if you go to 35:45, you will see the reenactment of the car rolling into the water in the Susan Smith case - gives you an idea of how slow it takes for it to sink (when it goes straight in)

[video=youtube;kG1rK6ngKN4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kG1rK6ngKN4[/video]
Click to expand...
Thank you for sharing that.

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I do hope that people are forthcoming with information about the autopsy and toxicology. This case has been secret enough. And I agree with whoever posted earlier that the family should get an independent autopsy.


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Gray said:
I do hope that people are forthcoming with information about the autopsy and toxicology. This case has been secret enough. And I agree with whoever posted earlier that the family should get an independent autopsy.


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Click to expand...

Exhuming dead people is awful. They need to do it before she's buried IMO.
 
She got off work around 4 am. Her phone last pinged near where her car was found at 9:30 pm.

She might have owned a waterproof phone, but it wouldn't connect to a phone tower while underwater. She likely entered the river at 9:30 pm.
 
DangleBerries said:
In a photo of her car focused on the rear-end, I can't tell if the trunk is open or dented inwards.

attachment.php


http://www.kctv5.com/story/34724154...-while-law-enforcementconducts-search-in-area
Click to expand...

Sure looks like the trunk is open and the trunk lining is flopped partially over the opening. ETA: You can see the emergency pull handle on the trunk lid.
 
Ok I am looking at the historic data of the Missouri River in parkville and the river level was 7.37 feet deep. The discharge rate was 32,000 ft per second. It pretty much stayed the same from the 15th through the 16th. So... if a car would enter the water, obviously weight and discharge rate would affect where the car would ultimately rest. How quickly does a car that size sink and what discharge rate would be strong enough to push it before it lands in its final resting place? That would be the information that would tell us where the entry point was and it can be confirmed if the car could have landed on the roof from that point without damaging the front of the car. FYI I got that data from waterdata.usgs.gov/mo/nwis


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Honestly, I'm hoping it was a tragic accident. It will give the family much quicker closure as opposed to having to live through further investigation on who did it and why and then potentially a trial.

Truth is, I just don't have a darned idea without more information which the autopsy and toxicology will provide and I am hoping that the parents get one because KCPD has not been the best at trying to solve this case, so I just don't trust them.

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