IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #45

[Bemused]

Just wondering if anyone knows if the pics we have of BG are from Libby zooming IN on him (which would seem to indicate she was purposely trying to capture him) or if LE found him tiny on her phone in the background and LE zoomed him out/enlarged him (which would seem to indicate he was just randomly in the background). I know there is a comment that Libby started filming a confrontation or something like that but I think if we could answer this it might clear things up at leat a tiny bit.

MOO

Wasn't it Sgt. Slocum of ISP who said the images were cropped and enlarged? That's my recollection but maybe someone has a link to the quote.

 

[Billy Mabou]

Just wondering if anyone knows if the pics we have of BG are from Libby zooming IN on him (which would seem to indicate she was purposely trying to capture him) or if LE found him tiny on her phone in the background and LE zoomed him out/enlarged him (which would seem to indicate he was just randomly in the background). I know there is a comment that Libby started filming a confrontation or something like that but I think if we could answer this it might clear things up at leat a tiny bit.

MOO

Technically, it's the same thing. When you zoom with the phone, it's just enlarging the pixels. There's no optical zoom that I know of on phones, but regardless, the BG image is obviously digitally enlarged (an optical zoom would have much less in the way of digital artifacts like blockiness, smear, etc).

All that said...I think it's just a 50/50 guess either way IMO.

 

[Jethro4WS]

It seems reasonable to assume there was something that LE found important. Maybe broken branches, tracks, discarded or dropped evidence? MOO

Based on the walk JM took with the videos and that hill from the bridge down to the road that runs below the bridge my best guess is that there might have been tracks/footprints and that would lead investigators to consider other evidence may be present in the area. But I haven't seen anything in the media about that activity (other than it being seen in the helicopter video).

The significant thing to me about what is seen with that activity is that crime scene tape only marks off an area above the road up toward the bridge while there is no crime scene tape visible marking off any area below that road on the creek side of it.

 

[anthym29]

That type of scenario would be easier to consider if there weren't 2 girls from different families involved. However, there are likely numerous types of contacts that could potentially have had an issue with both girls? ie a fellow student? a fellow student and his/her dad?

I couldn't sleep last night and kept mulling over all sorts of scenarios and I was wondering if BG is a parent. And I'll even go so far as to say a local parent maybe. That would have him aware that the girls would be out of school. I know that sounds far-fetched because "small town, everybody knows everybody", but apparently this guy looks like anybody, too. So that doesn't really get us that far. And it doesn't rule out someone local. We all want the boogie man to not be one of our own, but more times than not, he is.

A couple of my theories that I'm sure others have brought up are that I don't think this guy is young. Well, not the stereotypical 18 to 35 yo male type of young. I think he's at least in his 30's but more like in his 40's.

And is it just me, but does this dude have a big nose? It could be the quality of the photos, but my god that's a big nose. (I'm a nose person and notice them a bit more than probably someone who isn't a nose person). I would think that would be a rather distinguishing factor. I keep trying to see if RL has a big nose in the photos I see of him here or there, but I really don't think he's our guy.

Once I can figure out how all the locations of the crime scene come together (I have a question in the maps and timelines thread) I will try to get inside this dude's mind again and see what was happening, why for instance, he met the girls at point A and they were found in point B but there's obviously some in-between places they visited based on clothing found (unless clothing wasn't found in a separate location of their bodies and i misread that somewhere) and the "down the hill" comment.

Just thinking out loud.

 

[FrostedGlass]

From an article way back in the beginning when Bicycle Road was searched.

Apparently, it's all in the wording... they (the people on the trail) aren't suspect but they are still suspects.

[snips]

St Riley said that investigators had cleared a number of people who were in the Delphi Historic Trails area at the same time as the girls on Monday.

'At the moment we've talked to everybody that we feel that has been through there and none of them are coming up as suspect,' Riley said.

He added: 'Everybody is still a suspect but they went from high on the list to low on the list.'

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...Indiana-home-teens-murders.html#ixzz4dOa0I0af

 

[No it's not]

Technically, it's the same thing. When you zoom with the phone, it's just enlarging the pixels. There's no optical zoom that I know of on phones, but regardless, the BG image is obviously digitally enlarged (an optical zoom would have much less in the way of digital artifacts like blockiness, smear, etc).

All that said...I think it's just a 50/50 guess either way IMO.

Some smartphone do have optical zoom, some don't.

All IMO

-Nin

 

[kc1023]

Technically, it's the same thing. When you zoom with the phone, it's just enlarging the pixels. There's no optical zoom that I know of on phones, but regardless, the BG image is obviously digitally enlarged (an optical zoom would have much less in the way of digital artifacts like blockiness, smear, etc).

All that said...I think it's just a 50/50 guess either way IMO.

Well, I understand what you mean, the pic quality might be the same but I think it tells a (perhaps slightly) different story if she zoomed in on purpose or he was just back there and wasn't the intended focus of her video. MOO.

 

[WebSight]

"Chasity was not on the trail with the girls Monday afternoon, but other friends were. They talked about a man they saw."

What time did those friends leave? It's kind of strikes me odd that LE never referred to the last time the girls were seen by their friends? What time was that? How about where they left them and whether they gave any idea of where they were going to go next?


http://www.wthr.com/article/memorial-grows-as-police-continue-search-for-delphi-girls-killer

 

[Bemused]

That would have been ocgrad that posted a screencap of that from the RTV6 helicopter video. I don't know that anything at all was reported about that particular activity by the media.

This one or were you thinking of something else?

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...Delphi-13-Feb-2017-37&p=13254281#post13254281

ocgrad

Quote Originally Posted by whiskers View Post
Is there a service road under the bridge?
There is a private road under the bridge. It dead ends at a house to the east of the bridge. Check out Skibaboo's map on the first page of each thread and you will see it. When Libby took the picture of BG they were about to cross over the road, it would have been almost below them. There are some photos of the hill at the SE end of the bridge, where the crime scene tape to the left of the bridge was in the first days, which goes down to that road. Here are a couple of pix clipped from one of Gray's video. Click image for larger version.

Name: Libby and Abby Delphi Murders crime scene flow - YouTube_-2140077944.jpg
Views: 151
Size: 46.2 KB
ID: 113370
Click image for larger version.

Name: Libby and Abby Delphi Murders crime scene flow - YouTube_-1944571275.jpg
Views: 147
Size: 102.1 KB
ID: 113371
Click image for larger version.

Name: Libby and Abby Delphi Murders crime scene flow - YouTube_-1093938363.jpg
Views: 144
Size: 81.8 KB
ID: 113372
Click image for larger version.

Name: Libby and Abby Delphi Murders crime scene flow - YouTube_-1242642736.jpg
Views: 137
Size: 80.2 KB
ID: 113373
FWIW, seeing the LE vehicles on the road and that they primarily seemed interested in the hill up toward the bridge and as far as I know (which is not much) they did not tape off the area on down from the road to the creek. That's why my theory includes them being forced into a vehicle immediately. Seeing the vehicles parked on it makes me think they would be fairly well hidden from others on the trails on the other end of the bridge and since it's a road it would not be out of place for a vehicle to be there. We don't know but it's not inconceivable that is where they were dropped off.
Also just in case you don't already know, if you follow this road south a mile it turns to blacktop (N625W) where Abby lived.

 

[Kellyj1026]

"Chasity was not on the trail with the girls Monday afternoon, but other friends were. They talked about a man they saw."

What time did those friends leave? It's kind of strikes me odd that LE never referred to the last time the girls were seen by their friends? What time was that? How about where they left them and whether they gave any idea of where they were going to go next?


http://www.wthr.com/article/memorial-grows-as-police-continue-search-for-delphi-girls-killer

THANK YOU!! I forgot about this.

 

[Shiressleuth]

I couldn't sleep last night and kept mulling over all sorts of scenarios and I was wondering if BG is a parent. And I'll even go so far as to say a local parent maybe. That would have him aware that the girls would be out of school. I know that sounds far-fetched because "small town, everybody knows everybody", but apparently this guy looks like anybody, too. So that doesn't really get us that far. And it doesn't rule out someone local. We all want the boogie man to not be one of our own, but more times than not, he is.

A couple of my theories that I'm sure others have brought up are that I don't think this guy is young. Well, not the stereotypical 18 to 35 yo male type of young. I think he's at least in his 30's but more like in his 40's.

And is it just me, but does this dude have a big nose? It could be the quality of the photos, but my god that's a big nose. (I'm a nose person and notice them a bit more than probably someone who isn't a nose person). I would think that would be a rather distinguishing factor. I keep trying to see if RL has a big nose in the photos I see of him here or there, but I really don't think he's our guy.

Once I can figure out how all the locations of the crime scene come together (I have a question in the maps and timelines thread) I will try to get inside this dude's mind again and see what was happening, why for instance, he met the girls at point A and they were found in point B but there's obviously some in-between places they visited based on clothing found (unless clothing wasn't found in a separate location of their bodies and i misread that somewhere) and the "down the hill" comment.

Just thinking out loud.

These are good points. I also brought up the fact that school teachers and employees (e.g.janitors and security ) would also be off that day. Were all schools in the county off or just Delphi?

 

[Jethro4WS]

This one or were you thinking of something else?

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...Delphi-13-Feb-2017-37&p=13254281#post13254281

That was the post I was thinking of.

 

[Bemused]

Just wondering if anyone knows if the pics we have of BG are from Libby zooming IN on him (which would seem to indicate she was purposely trying to capture him) or if LE found him tiny on her phone in the background and LE zoomed him out/enlarged him (which would seem to indicate he was just randomly in the background). I know there is a comment that Libby started filming a confrontation or something like that but I think if we could answer this it might clear things up at leat a tiny bit.

MOO

Sgt Slocum quote as to cropping and ? enlarging BG photo(s).

http://www.jconline.com/story/news/...graph-suspect-slayings-delphi-teens/98130562/

Indiana State Police Sgt. Tony Slocum said review of the evidence leads investigators to believe that the man in the photo — at the very least — participated in the killing of German, 14, and Williams, 13.

Slocum said the photo likely is grainy because it is cropped from a larger image taken Feb. 13 at the same time that the girls were hiking the trails east of the city.

 

[WebSight]

Same tree. Girls found across the creek, bottom right.

 

[ab01]

After re watching some of the early press conferences, one thing that stuck out to me was LE saying that thought it was likely that somebody knew that the girls were going to be there and it was less likely that it was a chance encounter. Went on to say that they couldn't rule it out, but that they felt that there was some connection. I'm paraphrassing, but I found it interesting and had forgot about LE saying this.

 

[Blue Amethyst]

I totally hear you Bemused. A couple of weeks ago I was starting to find that my mind was in a muddle and I thought to myself "go back to the beginning," before all the information sharing, both LE, MSM, and even here. I started back at thread #1. Unfortunately, it is hard to go back through the threads and keep up with the current ones too!

I am sure that it would be a great thing to do though.

For anyone who wants to look back..go to thread 21, page 83 and post1233. It will show the tan coloured picture of BG that someone had posted earlier. It is the one where it looks like he is wearing the hoodie up. I know you wondered about it and it may have been Jax that also asked about it. The colours had been changed in the photo.

 

[Bemused]

Based on the walk JM took with the videos and that hill from the bridge down to the road that runs below the bridge my best guess is that there might have been tracks/footprints and that would lead investigators to consider other evidence may be present in the area. But I haven't seen anything in the media about that activity (other than it being seen in the helicopter video).

The significant thing to me about what is seen with that activity is that crime scene tape only marks off an area above the road up toward the bridge while there is no crime scene tape visible marking off any area below that road on the creek side of it.

One thing that bothers me about the entire larger potential crime scene as well as where Abby and Libby were found is the previous night's search and up until discovery. It seems logical that some evidence would have been accidentally destroyed because of the volunteers searching and walking through and over it. I'm unclear how many participated in both days' searches or what LE instructions to them were. MOO

 

[Jax49]

For anyone who wants to look back..go to thread 21, page 83 and post1233. It will show the tan coloured picture of BG that someone had posted earlier. It is the one where it looks like he is wearing the hoodie up. I know you wondered about it and it may have been Jax that also asked about it. The colours had been changed in the photo.

Thanks. You have a good memory. I did ask about it.

Here's a link to the post.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...Delphi-13-Feb-2017-21&p=13207702#post13207702

 

[relay]

Sorry I have somehow missed the FBI ruling out a SK. Have you a link or have I misunderstood you ?

Unless LE believes they know who the murderer(s) is/are and the motive(s), I do not see nor do I believe a serial killer can be or has been ruled out. To quote Greg Massa, assistant special agent in charge of the FBI’s Indianapolis field office:

"Other possible changes in behavior or appearance — like unexpected travel or a drastic haircut — should also be considered, said Massa, adding that there’s no indication that the murders are the work of a serial killer or are connected to other homicides."

First, the article is dated February 22, 2017, early on in the investigation, and as more evidence is uncovered, some may or may not suggest a budding or full fledged serial killer. Second, ruling something out is different than stating there is no evidence. We don't know what LE believed initially and what they believe or have evidence of at that point. I take the statement at face value. They simply had no evidence, but I believe that leaves room for the possibility of LE open to the possibility of the murderer(s) being a serial killer(s).

An analogy might go something like this. Let's say an unstable ex-boyfriend slashes a woman's tires and had told the woman he would do it. Let's say she had no known disgruntled people besides the ex. It would be he said/she said unless another witness admitted to hearing the statement. Assuming no witnesses heard the ex's statement, and assuming that there was no proof (no cameras, etc...), and that the ex denied to LE that he slashd the tires, LE would have had no evidence that he did it. They may believe he likely did do it, but they had no evidence.

http://nypost.com/2017/02/22/slain-teen-recorded-mans-voice-before-she-was-killed/

 

[Aropizt]

Very interesting point!! Exactly what made them call BG a FIRM suspect that they didn't have off phone from the very start????? Any ideas???

Sorry as I just popped on and know I have more to read to catch up but I saw the original post you're replying to last night and was thinking this too.

My original thought when they changed BG from just someone they wanted to talk to, to a suspect, the main suspect was simply that they were initially trying their luck at getting BG himself or whoever knew him to come forward. Like initially they were so careful to say they just wanted to talk to him and all, seems like the hope was that by not using the word suspect it'd seem like less of a big deal for someone to identify him? Maybe they even hoped to hear from him perhaps? (I know I've seen enough true crime to know some killers have contacted police on their own, but I don't know).

Anyway, initially that's just what I thought with this and never put much more thought into it (granted at the time we, the public, did not yet know the photo was from LG's cell phone either so the OP who brought this up has a great point!) I have to say too, and maybe this is a combo of hindsight and just how much time has passed now, five days does not seem like very long. Makes me question then if not calling him a suspect at first was not an intentional thing as I thought.

As far as the theory that was discussed on maybe they didn't have the audio yet... worth saying especially when leaving a recording going for awhile I've seen phones screw up in compressing video (maybe compression isn't the issue. I admit I don't know the lingo either but tends to glitch up as the video saves) so the audio and images end up being off. Or maybe if the phone was placed into her pocket they were unable to hear the "down the hill" or whatever else very clearly initially. Like maybe things were muffled plus the sounds of walking around and the leaves and all so perhaps they had to do some isolation work on the audio to even make things out clearly? This is all MOO, of course.

Going with that point I'm of two minds on the audio- I want to say that from the time of my first iPhone about 8ish years ago I've been able to use my phones to record loud concerts. The audio on phones tends to be much better than the video/photo side of things, believe it or not (perhaps because the audio stuff is important for the phones quality on calls?) But you'd be amazed what a reasonably good quality recording I can pull from a phone at a big concert venue sounds like. Sounds as good as any "bootleg" (if you're old enough to remember folks selling bootleg recordings of their favorite singers and bands concerts!) recording I've heard. So the audio capacity at least on an iPhone or similar is surprisingly good even when say at a concert you have people talking or singing along or screaming, I still get good recordings. So... knowing that I'm not sure I buy into the thing with audio but my other point would be that most phones have their microphones near the bottom where you'd speak into on a call. (As far as I know. iPhone does) so if she were to put the phone into her pocket and she didn't tip it upside down then yes, it's not hard to block the microphones on these. I know it's something Apple specifically has improved upon because in older Apple phones people had issues being heard while talking depending on how they held their phone. Worth saying whenever I've recorded a concert or some other audio on my phone I left the phone out and on something stationary. Actually, just remembered, I recorded a couple of doctor's visits recently and had nowhere to put my phone so I had it in my lap. I was nervous and fiddled with it. The phone running against my clothing definitely did make the doctor speaking three feet away from me hard to hear. So there you go, and that was on the latest iPhone.

Anyway sorry to ramble. I have had different experiences recording things with my phone and worth saying I have no idea if using the camera on the phone differs because all of the above was discussing using just audio recording without video (like using the VoiceMemo app on iPhone. iPhones have always come with that installed though also worth saying I've owned other phones even in recent years that did not come with any app for recording just audio preinstalled and we know too that Libby apparently took video.)

So all MOO and just personal experience.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk