Identified! PA - White Haven, 'Beth Doe' & Unborn Baby 169UFPA, 16-22, Dec'76 - #1 - Evelyn Colon
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You're welcome. I thought I had seen that girl's picture before. Lots of questions raised with this comparison. First and foremost, how would a girl who disappeared from a German disco end up pregnant and dead in PA? I'm not saying it couldn't happen, but wow, what a story that would be.laini said:
Does anyone on here have any real experience with the military instillations in Germany? Perhaps she was close to one, and was secretly dating one of the servicemen there? Just a wild possibility, but it is possible that Margarete came to the U.S. as a wife of a serviceman -- which could have been easily done if she lied about her age. Maybe the baby caused a huge problem in her relationship, and she was killed because of it. Someone must have certainly had some sort of hatred towards her to have cut her nose and ears off!
I too agree that whoever did this had to have either a slight medical knowledge, or a meat-industry or hunting knowledge. I asked my dad (who's an avid hunter) and he said that depending on the type of paint, it could be used to keep the blood IN the suitcases along with the newspapers. Think about it, those suitcases are probably heavy enough that they aren't going to float too far too fast, and someone would surely notice blood (which would have came through the fabric and spaces in the zipper) in the middle of the water. Perhaps if the suitcases had made it to the water, she'd never have been found.
I too agree that whoever did this had to have either a slight medical knowledge, or a meat-industry or hunting knowledge. I asked my dad (who's an avid hunter) and he said that depending on the type of paint, it could be used to keep the blood IN the suitcases along with the newspapers. Think about it, those suitcases are probably heavy enough that they aren't going to float too far too fast, and someone would surely notice blood (which would have came through the fabric and spaces in the zipper) in the middle of the water. Perhaps if the suitcases had made it to the water, she'd never have been found.
laini
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kygal said:
Hi kygal.
Your senario sounds good. I don't think the four years makes it unlikley. Who ever this Jane Doe was very likely was away from her family and out on her own. All these years and never identified makes it more likely, IMO, that she could have been estranged from her family for a period of time and ran off with a man.
Interesting what you found out about the paint maybe to seal the suitcase.
ihadcabinfever
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Mr. E said:
Mr. E You would be surprised. In 83 I went on a business trip with my father to through Europe destination Rotterdam Holland.(for 3 weeks) at 19 :bang: You'd have to see the amount of teens that travelled by train with back packs and cameras just adventuring around. They paid I think a dollar in American money a night to stay at a Youth Hostel, some looked pretty young an unattended . They get a train pass.
Do you know in 83 I kept having to ask them to stamp my Passport?
Anything is possible. She could have gone anywhere.
Okay, I just thought of a couple of things.
1. Cisilia Pena's skin would NOT have lightned as much as the picture (although I think the facial structure is very similar).
2. If this was Margarete, or an illegal immigrant, she may have decided to go back home, and made the killer angry.
3. I went to the website of CCJD's sig. The suitcases pictured would have been reasonably new for the time, but the handles aren't worth a dime. Even now they are a cheap composite plastic that (especially if cooled or frozen) snap rather easily. Is it possible that they were at the scene broken into very small pieces, or cracked off the suitcases themselves and went into the water? It just doesn't seem to me that someone would want to haggle with the suitcases at ANY time of day to have to pick them up manually (like a box) and throw them over.
1. Cisilia Pena's skin would NOT have lightned as much as the picture (although I think the facial structure is very similar).
2. If this was Margarete, or an illegal immigrant, she may have decided to go back home, and made the killer angry.
3. I went to the website of CCJD's sig. The suitcases pictured would have been reasonably new for the time, but the handles aren't worth a dime. Even now they are a cheap composite plastic that (especially if cooled or frozen) snap rather easily. Is it possible that they were at the scene broken into very small pieces, or cracked off the suitcases themselves and went into the water? It just doesn't seem to me that someone would want to haggle with the suitcases at ANY time of day to have to pick them up manually (like a box) and throw them over.
ihadcabinfever
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maybe they took the handles off to fit into trunk of a car a freezer ,some sort of compartment.
I have often wondered if the zippers weren't painted simply to keep the sun from glinting off the metal and attracting attention to them? that's the only thing that I could come up with? The handles - can't get a grasp on that one (no pun intended!!).
The German girl looks like a possibility, but I'm just not real good at faces......
Keeping my fingers crossed for a name for this girl and justice would be gravy!!
The German girl looks like a possibility, but I'm just not real good at faces......
Keeping my fingers crossed for a name for this girl and justice would be gravy!!
ihadcabinfever
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http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/1974dfoh.html
Dorothy Leishman Wood Madden
Missing since August 8, 1975 from Lorain, Lorain County, Ohio
Classification: Endangered Missing
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Vital Statistics
Date Of Birth: December 3, 1949
Age at Time of Disappearance: 25 years old
Height and Weight at Time of Disappearance: 5'5"-5'6"; 125-135 lbs.
Distinguishing Characteristics: White female. Brown hair probably shoulder length or longer; hazel eyes. She has a fair complexion; slim build with a very well proportioned figure. Fine aqualine nose, small features, finely natural arched eyebrows. She had a very passive personality at the time of her disappearance and tended to be a follower.
Marks, Scars: One of her legs had a scar from knee surgery and her left baby finger was mangled as a child and was crooked. She had an appendectomy scar in her abdominal lower right quadrant.
Medical: Past medical history most likely was related to encephalitis as a child but not lasting neurological disability. She may have been pregnant at the time of her disappearance.
AKA: Dotty Wood, Dotty Madden
Other: The picture above taken in 1968 is very similar to the way she looked in 1975.
Dorothy Leishman Wood Madden
Missing since August 8, 1975 from Lorain, Lorain County, Ohio
Classification: Endangered Missing
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Vital Statistics
Date Of Birth: December 3, 1949
Age at Time of Disappearance: 25 years old
Height and Weight at Time of Disappearance: 5'5"-5'6"; 125-135 lbs.
Distinguishing Characteristics: White female. Brown hair probably shoulder length or longer; hazel eyes. She has a fair complexion; slim build with a very well proportioned figure. Fine aqualine nose, small features, finely natural arched eyebrows. She had a very passive personality at the time of her disappearance and tended to be a follower.
Marks, Scars: One of her legs had a scar from knee surgery and her left baby finger was mangled as a child and was crooked. She had an appendectomy scar in her abdominal lower right quadrant.
Medical: Past medical history most likely was related to encephalitis as a child but not lasting neurological disability. She may have been pregnant at the time of her disappearance.
AKA: Dotty Wood, Dotty Madden
Other: The picture above taken in 1968 is very similar to the way she looked in 1975.
ihadcabinfever
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How was Betty Redmond ruled out if they have no DNA?
Wasn't it a miracle that her husband found the car at the Airport?
It was reported that Betty Redmond was required to take medication for a nervous condition. She had 2 small children at home when she dissapeared.
I keep thinking about medication and 2 small babies. I wonder if she was nodding off and the husband got sick of it . I also wonder if she was pregnant at the time. I know a few people that could conceal a pregnancy until 7 months. It's done all the time. Girls having babies and dumping them. Now they have the Safe Haven Law for this very reason. So it is a real possibility.
I have looked all over the internet for information on her and the only thing i found was a woman looking for her in a Geneology forum for the Redmond family. Nobody responded. It did mention that she had 2 children only 1 year apart.
Look at her picture , her eye lids are heavy. Medication?
It has been proven time and time again that women that are pregnant are at a higher risk for being murdered by a husband or lover .
I read the dental data bank had a few cliques and I don't always beleive they are 100% accurate. IMHO.
Her composite the newspaper date , the car, the gun, the medication , the 2 infants. The Stress.
And again , who keeps a gun in a house with a wife with a "Nervous Condition"?
Something or someone was causing her "Condition".
Wasn't it a miracle that her husband found the car at the Airport?
It was reported that Betty Redmond was required to take medication for a nervous condition. She had 2 small children at home when she dissapeared.
I keep thinking about medication and 2 small babies. I wonder if she was nodding off and the husband got sick of it . I also wonder if she was pregnant at the time. I know a few people that could conceal a pregnancy until 7 months. It's done all the time. Girls having babies and dumping them. Now they have the Safe Haven Law for this very reason. So it is a real possibility.
I have looked all over the internet for information on her and the only thing i found was a woman looking for her in a Geneology forum for the Redmond family. Nobody responded. It did mention that she had 2 children only 1 year apart.
Look at her picture , her eye lids are heavy. Medication?
It has been proven time and time again that women that are pregnant are at a higher risk for being murdered by a husband or lover .
I read the dental data bank had a few cliques and I don't always beleive they are 100% accurate. IMHO.
Her composite the newspaper date , the car, the gun, the medication , the 2 infants. The Stress.
And again , who keeps a gun in a house with a wife with a "Nervous Condition"?
Something or someone was causing her "Condition".
I'm with ya Cabin...I want to know how Betty was ruled out!!!! There is a politican that owns a towing company in Pasadena named Thomas Redmond Sr....he has two children named Amy (born in 74) and Patrick (born in 72)... I think quite possibly these could be her, Betty's children. I did some research on Mr Redmond and found all kinds of legal trouble that he has been in but nothing in my research said anything about a missing first wife so I'm not 100% positive this is her family. I wouldn't mind going to the library and trying to find the original missing articles on her if you think it would be helpful.ihadcabinfever said:
Marilynilpa
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It has been a while since I've looked at this thread. It's good to see there is still so much interest.
When I first read about this poor woman, my first thought was that her murder was intended to serve as a message to the father of this woman's child. The writing on her hand may not even have been written by her, it could have been left by the killer(s) as a message to someone else.
Also, when I first got interested in this case, I followed up a bit on the pregnancy issue. There were homes for unwed mothers in that area at that time, and wondered if this woman had been on her way to one of these facilities.
Just thought I'd throw out these ideas and see what anyone else thinks.
When I first read about this poor woman, my first thought was that her murder was intended to serve as a message to the father of this woman's child. The writing on her hand may not even have been written by her, it could have been left by the killer(s) as a message to someone else.
Also, when I first got interested in this case, I followed up a bit on the pregnancy issue. There were homes for unwed mothers in that area at that time, and wondered if this woman had been on her way to one of these facilities.
Just thought I'd throw out these ideas and see what anyone else thinks.
outofthedark
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Women who went missing in North America before December 20, 1976 (Women who have brown/black hair):
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/1907dfon.html
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/1186dftx.html
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/1806dfia.html
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/1162dfca.html
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/1404dfil.html
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/827dfca.html
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/1365dfok.html
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/1298dffl.html (Sort of looks like "Beth")
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/862dfca.html
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/933dfmd.html
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/425dftn.html
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/2118dfon.html
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/1907dfon.html
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/1186dftx.html
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/1806dfia.html
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/1162dfca.html
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/1404dfil.html
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/827dfca.html
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/1365dfok.html
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/1298dffl.html (Sort of looks like "Beth")
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/862dfca.html
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/933dfmd.html
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/425dftn.html
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/2118dfon.html
laini
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Sylvie Ouimet missing in 1975.
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/2322dfqc.html
The eyes look very similar. Other features of the Jane Doe drawing are only a guess, her page says. Eye color is different. But other than that, I wonder if it could be her. What do you all think?
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/2322dfqc.html
The eyes look very similar. Other features of the Jane Doe drawing are only a guess, her page says. Eye color is different. But other than that, I wonder if it could be her. What do you all think?
laini
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