NORTH KOREA - Otto Warmbier, 22, UV student, released from North Korea, June 2017, Deceased

I haven't followed this story for quite a while and find the proof of Otto's mistreatment so hideous and unforgivable. Thinking back, didn't NK originally float the story that Otto was removing the poster on a dare or as a favor to someone back home? It's been so long since I followed along here.....

North Korea Sentences Otto Warmbier, U.S. Student, to 15 Years’ Labor
By CHOE SANG-HUN and RICK GLADSTONE
MARCH 16, 2016

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/17/world/asia/north-korea-otto-warmbier-sentenced.html

SEOUL, South Korea — An American college student who tearfully apologized for trying to steal a political propaganda poster from his hotel in Pyongyang, the North Korean capital [....]


The charges against him claimed that the C.I.A., a secretive American university organization and a member of a church in Ohio had encouraged him to commit the “hostile act” of stealing a political poster from a wall in his hotel.

[....] he admitted stealing the poster and said that the church member had offered to buy him a used car worth $10,000 in exchange. “I made the worst mistake of my life,” Mr. Warmbier said.


No way could I say indeed that is Otto in the CCTV in the NK Hotel so the video means little except the person in question almost seems to wish to be caught. No indication of being in a hurry. Why would anyone ask OW to bring back NK propaganda? A $10k vehicle. Did the source offer OW more benefits if he were to get caught and imprisoned?

Otto was only 21yo, att, and an undergrad from UoV. He was not a spy but he may have accepted the dare. That was the worst mistake of his life.

I weep with knowing he could have been my brother. When it happens to one, it happens to all.
 
https://www.thestar.com/news/world/...after-otto-warmbiers-death-officials-say.html
July 21 2017
U.S. to ban American citizens from visiting North Korea after Otto Warmbier’s death

U.S. Secretary of State Rex Tillerson has decided to impose “geographic travel restriction” for North Korea.
“Due to mounting concerns over the serious risk of arrest and long-term detention under North Korea’s system of law enforcement, the secretary has authorized a Geographical Travel Restriction on all U.S. citizen nationals’ use of a passport to travel in, through or to North Korea,” department spokesperson Heather Nauert said in a statement.
The restriction will take effect in late August, 30 days after it is published as a legal notice in the Federal Register sometime next week.
rbbm.
 
July 23 2017
rbbm
https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/20...dian-pastor-held-900-days-in-north-korea.html
Cautious glimmer of hope for Canadian pastor held 900 days in North Korea

Diplomatic meeting in North Korea renews hope for release of Hyeon Soo Lim, who has been in detention at a hard-labour camp since 2015
The leader of Mississauga’s Light Presbyterian Church went missing during a humanitarian mission in a northern region where Lim was so well-known for his charity work, he’d been granted a frequent access visa.

Weeks later, North Korean authorities confirmed they’d arrested Lim, now 62, ostensibly for plotting to overthrow Kim Jong Un’s authoritarian regime. The pastor was sentenced to life in a hard-labour camp where he told an American journalist, given unique access to Lim, that he digs holes eight hours a day, six days a week.
Last Friday, North Korean officials arranged a meeting “in the humanitarian spirit” between the imprisoned Canadian and a Swedish Embassy diplomat in Pyongyang, according to state media outlet Korean Central News Agency.

The timing of the July 14 meeting has also commanded attention: It came four weeks after American university student Otto Warmbier was released from a North Korean prison, in a coma, and died just days after arriving home.

However, Warmbier’s death appears to have deeply affected the Lims. The mother and son released a statement through family spokesperson Lisa Pak two days after the 22-year-old died in Cincinnati.
“We are heartbroken at the news of Otto’s passing. What has happened is tragic.

Lim, his wife and son — the Lims’ only child — are all South Korean natives. The family immigrated to Canada in 1986 when Lim had the opportunity to obtain his Master's degree at the University of Toronto’s Knox College. Lim is a Canadian citizen
.

There is a warning on the Global Affairs Canada website: NORTH KOREA — AVOID ALL TRAVEL.
 
North Korean officials arranged a meeting “in the humanitarian spirit” ...

OMG shall I laugh or cry? Utterly ridiculous these people.

Praying for Mr. Lim, I hope the meeting will help to ensure his release.
 
North Korea Sentences Otto Warmbier, U.S. Student, to 15 Years’ Labor
By CHOE SANG-HUN and RICK GLADSTONE
MARCH 16, 2016

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/17/world/asia/north-korea-otto-warmbier-sentenced.html

SEOUL, South Korea — An American college student who tearfully apologized for trying to steal a political propaganda poster from his hotel in Pyongyang, the North Korean capital [....]


The charges against him claimed that the C.I.A., a secretive American university organization and a member of a church in Ohio had encouraged him to commit the “hostile act” of stealing a political poster from a wall in his hotel.

[....] he admitted stealing the poster and said that the church member had offered to buy him a used car worth $10,000 in exchange. “I made the worst mistake of my life,” Mr. Warmbier said.

IMO, nothing Otto said on the recording released by North Korea should be accepted as fact. He was clearly under duress when he read his written statement--a statement that I'm certain was written by the DPRK and forced upon him. The statement he made about making the biggest mistake of his life could have been about anything. His worst mistake had to be entering that country at all.

The "confession" doesn't even make logical sense, if you really think about it. First, he said he wanted to give the poster to a woman at his church in Ohio in exchange for a car that was valued at $10,000. He justified the reason with claims that his mother was struggling financially and they couldn't afford to buy it otherwise. Then, he said he was a member of the "Z" society--one of several secret societies at UVA. He went on to claim that the "Z" society is closely tied to the CIA, and he wanted to impress them by taking them the poster. So, which is it? Did he want to give it the church lady in exchange for a car or did he want to bequeath it to the CIA to make a lasting impression? Give me a break.

Here is was I think REALLY happened:

Otto was likely being closely watched by the North Korean government during his entire stay. By all appearances, he was a young, vivacious, red-blooded American man enjoying life. He was attractive and wore nice clothing. He looked like the perfect bargaining chip, so they detained him. They probably issued threats, while also promising quick release, to get him to reassure the tour group company that he was sick and going to the hospital. After he was detained (or maybe even before then), they interrogated him and/or researched his background to find anything they could use "to prove" he entered their country with malicious intent and justified his imprisonment. They might have stumbled upon information about a possible secret society at UVA while researching the school let their imaginations run amok. Or maybe it was the perfect kind of thing they'd hoped to find, as it allowed them to take the leap from theft to espionage. It was the "proof" North Korea needed to support their notion that Otto had been sent by the US government to spy on their country and justified the harsh punishment that he ultimately received.

Regardless, the video NK released to the public does not definitively prove their allegations. The video that shows him removing the poster wasn't seen until the video of his tearful "confession" and sentencing was released--three months after he was detained. (His family had no idea where he was, or that he was even being held, all that time.)

I mean, for all we know, they coerced him to "steal the poster" and recorded it AFTER they stopped him from boarding the plane.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
http://www.cp24.com/news/north-korea-says-it-has-released-imprisoned-mississauga-pastor-1.3538207
Aug. 9 2017
[h=1]North Korea says it has released imprisoned Mississauga pastor[/h]
image.jpg
FILE - In this file image made from July 30, 2015, video, Canadian Hyeon Soo Lim speaks in Pyongyang, North Korea. Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau’s office confirmed a delegation is in North Korea to discuss the Canadian pastor imprisoned
Lim, a South Korean-born Canadian citizen in his 60s, was convicted and sentenced in 2015 on charges of trying to use religion to destroy the North Korean system and helping U.S. and South Korean authorities lure and abduct North Korean citizens.

South Korea, the U.S. and others often accuse North Korea of using foreign detainees to wrest diplomatic concessions, and foreigners have said after their release that their declarations of guilt had been coerced while in North Korean custody.

Lim's release came nearly two months after the death of U.S. college student Otto Warmbier shortly after he was released from North Korea in a coma. Warmbier had been sentenced to 15 years of hard labour in March 2016 after being accused of stealing a propaganda poster.

Trudeau's spokesman Cameron Ahmad said the government considered Lim's health of "utmost importance" but did not give more details about the delegation.

At least three Americans and six South Koreans remain in custody in the North.
 
IMO, nothing Otto said on the recording released by North Korea should be accepted as fact. He was clearly under duress when he read his written statement--a statement that I'm certain was written by the DPRK and forced upon him. The statement he made about making the biggest mistake of his life could have been about anything. His worst mistake had to be entering that country at all.

The "confession" doesn't even make logical sense, if you really think about it. First, he said he wanted to give the poster to a woman at his church in Ohio in exchange for a car that was valued at $10,000. He justified the reason with claims that his mother was struggling financially and they couldn't afford to buy it otherwise. Then, he said he was a member of the "Z" society--one of several secret societies at UVA. He went on to claim that the "Z" society is closely tied to the CIA, and he wanted to impress them by taking them the poster. So, which is it? Did he want to give it the church lady in exchange for a car or did he want to bequeath it to the CIA to make a lasting impression? Give me a break.

Here is was I think REALLY happened:

Otto was likely being closely watched by the North Korean government during his entire stay. By all appearances, he was a young, vivacious, red-blooded American man enjoying life. He was attractive and wore nice clothing. He looked like the perfect bargaining chip, so they detained him. They probably issued threats, while also promising quick release, to get him to reassure the tour group company that he was sick and going to the hospital. After he was detained (or maybe even before then), they interrogated him and/or researched his background to find anything they could use "to prove" he entered their country with malicious intent and justified his imprisonment. They might have stumbled upon information about a possible secret society at UVA while researching the school let their imaginations run amok. Or maybe it was the perfect kind of thing they'd hoped to find, as it allowed them to take the leap from theft to espionage. It was the "proof" North Korea needed to support their notion that Otto had been sent by the US government to spy on their country and justified the harsh punishment that he ultimately received.

Regardless, the video NK released to the public does not definitively prove their allegations. The video that shows him removing the poster wasn't seen until the video of his tearful "confession" and sentencing was released--three months after he was detained. (His family had no idea where he was, or that he was even being held, all that time.)

I mean, for all we know, they coerced him to "steal the poster" and recorded it AFTER they stopped him from boarding the plane.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I just saw your post, Cujenn, and had to say I agree. The "confession" definitely appeared coerced. One thing that didn't make sense to me was how Otto knew where to find the propaganda poster. Also, as an intelligent young man, Otto would've known before removing the poster from the wall that it was too large and heavy to fit into his luggage. I was thinking that a hotel employee set Otto up by asking him to remove something from the wall in an employee area for him (after all, Otto was fairly tall, and N Koreans are on average shorter than the average American, so that could be used as an excuse to involve Otto), remained out of camera range himself and then reported the "incident" to gov't officials. But, your explanation makes a lot of sense.

Come to think of it, did Otto even know any/much Korean? If not, how would he know what the sign said? It could have said something like, "Have a Nice Day." IMO, there's just no way this was a prank initiated by Otto or anyone other than the NoKo regime or a sadistic hotel employee.

MOO
 
There was no other reason for Otto to alter his travel plans, seemingly, abruptly. And this is merely my opinion. He took the propaganda but if he got caught, he was promised a much bigger prize. He almost got away with it but at the last moment he was detained at the airport and returned home comatose.

I have seen the hotel video and there is no way that I could attest that it is Otto. The thief seemed to be taking their sweet time and didn't rush about it as if they almost wanted to be caught by a passersby.

There is little doubt that Otto was forced to practice his nauseating speech over and over again until the NK felt he was dramatically prepared enough to pass the public's sniff test by doing it their way. Otto's pleading eyes told the truth in that he was terrified and highly remorseful.

I could be wrong and he could have totally been the innocent victim of a dangerous regime. Even if he was guilty of taking a poster, they had no right to liquify his brain. None.
 
Otto Warmbier's parents open up about son's death

When they spotted their son, they found Otto on a stretcher, jerking violently, producing the terrifying cries.
“Otto had a shaved head, he had a feeding tube coming out of his nose, he was staring blankly into space, jerking violently,” Fred said. “He was blind. He was deaf. As we looked at him and tried to comfort him it looked like someone had taken a pair of pliers and rearranged his bottom teeth.”

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/09/2...ns-torture-by-north-korea-are-terrorists.html
 
What else would you call 15 years of hard labour for a youth accused of stealing a poster?
imo, speculation.
rbbm
https://www.thestar.com/news/world/...g-in-return-from-north-korea-parents-say.html
“We weren’t prepared . . . no mother, no parent should ever have gone through what we went through,” Cindy Warmbier said. She said it was “inexcusable” that her son had been alone in captivity for so long with no one to comfort him
.

Fred Warmbier also said Otto had a large scar on his right foot and a high fever.

North Korea has denied mistreating the youth, sentenced to 15 years of hard labour in March 2016 for allegedly stealing a propaganda poster.
 
It is horrific what happened to Otto there was no justification for his brutal torture and murder.
 
I wish the U.S. would obliterate Kim Jong Un and his entire posse of sick !@#$%^&*!
 
I can't even begin to imagine the horror that poor boy endured, it's heartbreaking and unforgivable that anyone would treat another human being in that manner.
Something , someone needs to stop him before it's too late. What's that age old quote.... "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing".
 
I can't even begin to imagine the horror that poor boy endured, it's heartbreaking and unforgivable that anyone would treat another human being in that manner.
Something , someone needs to stop him before it's too late. What's that age old quote.... "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing".

ITA - I've had Otto on my mind all day after reading how awful his condition was before he died. It hurts my heart to think of the cruelty he endured at the hands of the North Koreans. And I can't even imagine the pain and heartache for his parents to have seen him in this condition. Sickening all the way around.
 

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