NORTH KOREA - Otto Warmbier, 22, UV student, released from North Korea, June 2017, Deceased

[catatonia]

Just to play devil's advocate...
If Otto's condition was not in fact a " natural ' one, what if, maybe, just a small maybe, some type of 3rd party espionage was involved with the purpose of escalating tension between NK and US?
complete speculation.

Tbh I was wondering about that, too.

 

[Indy Anna]

I'm disappointed no autopsy is going to be done. Having heard that they have used prisoners for medical experiments, I've wondered whether they operated on or injected something into his brain after his trial that destroyed it. Unless his head was shaved and they could examine every bit of his scalp, I don't think they'd be able to tell if the hole was small.

I haven't been on this thread since seeing the news that Otto had died. I've just been too sad. But decided to see what people's thoughts are here.

Michmi, I also had the thought they maybe the NK were conducting experiments on Otto. But, I don't think the would have the technology to conduct elaborate experiments. The pronounced loss of brain tissue without evidence of external trauma is puzzling.

Could the loss of brain tissue be caused by prions, whether introduced into Otto's body intentionally (via injection) or unintentionally (e.g., via ingestion of infected food)? Some info on prion diseases such as CJD:

http://neuropathology-web.org/chapter5/chapter5ePrions.html

Prion diseases are progressive and death occurs within a matter of months to 1-2 years, so the timing would be right. NK could have realized Otto's condition had advanced to the point that he would not survive much longer, which is why they decided to release him. MOO

We will likely not find out if that is the cause of Otto's death since no autopsy was performed. Or, maybe US doctors already made a diagnosis before Otto died. I think his family just want him to be at peace after all he suffered at the hands of the NK regime for more than a year.

 

[bluesneakers]

I haven't been on this thread since seeing the news that Otto had died. I've just been too sad. But decided to see what people's thoughts are here.

Michmi, I also had the thought they maybe the NK were conducting experiments on Otto. But, I don't think the would have the technology to conduct elaborate experiments. The pronounced loss of brain tissue without evidence of external trauma is puzzling.

Could the loss of brain tissue be caused by prions, whether introduced into Otto's body intentionally (via injection) or unintentionally (e.g., via ingestion of infected food)? Some info on prion diseases such as CJD:

http://neuropathology-web.org/chapter5/chapter5ePrions.html

Prion diseases are progressive and death occurs within a matter of months to 1-2 years, so the timing would be right. NK could have realized Otto's condition had advanced to the point that he would not survive much longer, which is why they decided to release him. MOO

We will likely not find out if that is the cause of Otto's death since no autopsy was performed. Or, maybe US doctors already made a diagnosis before Otto died. I think his family just want him to be at peace after all he suffered at the hands of the NK regime for more than a year.

That's what I think too.

 

[jjenny]

I don't find the North Korean statement hard to believe. I'm sure they had no idea what his health problem was. That country is so technologically backward, that their health care system must be a total joke. The life expectancy is 69 years in North Korea compared to 80 years in South Korea. I think they gave him the best health care the country had to offer, which was basically nothing.

If they gave him noting, he wouldn't have survived in the vegetative state that he was in. He clearly couldn't eat on his own. Obviously for whatever reason they took care of him after he went into vegetative state.

 

[KaaBoom]

The problem is that neither China nor South Korea want the regime destroyed. Because those nations will have to bear an influx of millions of unskilled migrants they will need to care for and absorb without anything good from the country they can take to make up for that, as pretty much all natural resources have been stripped from the country.

Dismantling the regime will cause a global crises of millions of poor migrants. Much worse than what we are seeing as a result of the war in Syria.

So both nations- one an ally of North Korea and one an enemy- will put pressure on to keep the nation intact. And China is under treaty to retaliate against any country that attacks North Korea. So aggression on our part could cause WWIII.

Its a complex and delicate situation.

I believe that South Korea wants the regime destroyed. China not so much.

 

[gregjrichards]

"North Korea on Friday called itself the 'biggest victim' in the death of an American student who was detained for more than a year and died days after being released in a coma.

The North's official Korean Central News Agency denied that North Korea cruelly treated or tortured Otto Warmbier and accused the United States and South Korea of a smear campaign that insulted what it called its 'humanitarian' treatment of him.

The comments published by KCNA were North Korea's first reaction to Otto Warmbier's death in a U.S. hospital Monday after it released him for what it called humanitarian reasons.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ctim-Otto-Warmbier-s-death.html#ixzz4l2IdXHxv

Unbelievable!

 

[Indy Anna]

"North Korea on Friday called itself the 'biggest victim' in the death of an American student who was detained for more than a year and died days after being released in a coma.

The North's official Korean Central News Agency denied that North Korea cruelly treated or tortured Otto Warmbier and accused the United States and South Korea of a smear campaign that insulted what it called its 'humanitarian' treatment of him.

The comments published by KCNA were North Korea's first reaction to Otto Warmbier's death in a U.S. hospital Monday after it released him for what it called humanitarian reasons.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ctim-Otto-Warmbier-s-death.html#ixzz4l2IdXHxv

Unbelievable!

No, no! Otto and his family are the biggest victims. Kim and his cronies are the biggest narcissists--they're only concerned about themselves. :tsktsk:

 

[Indy Anna]

O/T:

[h=1]Second North Korean soldier defects to South Korea in a month[/h]By AFP | Published: 24th June 2017 01:34 PM |
Last Updated: 24th June 2017 01:34 PM

http://www.newindianexpress.com/wor...efects-to-south-korea-in-a-month-1620410.html

 

[HMSHood]

North Korea is a criminal and illegitimate regime run by criminals. :furious: uke:

 

[JerseyGirl]

Missing BYU student might have been taken by North Korea, Utah officials warn Trump

http://fox13now.com/2017/06/26/miss...en-by-north-korea-utah-officials-warns-trump/

Today, Sen. Mike Lee and Rep. Chris Stewart sent a letter urging President Trump to look into North Korean involvement in the disappearance of BYU student David Louis Sneddon from China in 2004.

 

[JanetElaine]

Missing BYU student might have been taken by North Korea, Utah officials warn Trump

http://fox13now.com/2017/06/26/miss...en-by-north-korea-utah-officials-warns-trump/

Today, Sen. Mike Lee and Rep. Chris Stewart sent a letter urging President Trump to look into North Korean involvement in the disappearance of BYU student David Louis Sneddon from China in 2004.

Here's David's thread, for those interested: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...ing-since-2004-kidnapped-by-Kim-Jong-un-Korea

 

[cujenn81]

My understanding is North Korea's in prison are typically abused and often die from the conditions. So if they gave him the treatment of a typical prisoner, it's possible he could come to this end.

I really do not understand how North Korea works. They have this bizarre personality cult of their leader. They have strict penalties for even owning a TV capable of receiving South Korean style TV signals. To run a country like that in a command fashion, with the gov't making decisions that private businesses make elsewhere, must require a huge bureaucracy. Their official story is foreigners, esp the US, are trying to undermine them at every turn, even by doing innocuous things like stealing a sign. Might the bureaucracy have no way to say, "I know we carry on about this, but we all no it's baloney. We should not imprison an American in harsh conditions, potentially creating an international incident, for nothing."

Maybe the people at the top ordered they railroad some American so they could have a hostage, but if that were the case they should have ordered he be treated well and kept alive. That would require a fair number of people in the bureaucracy to know that their justice system is a sham and their gov't is acting like bandits. Maybe the leadership was afraid if that many people realized it, it would undermine their propaganda narrative about being demi-gods standing up to imperialism and creating a workers' paradise.

I'm unclear if most people being that insane narrative or if most people there know it's bogus. If they know it's bogus, do they have anything like the Nazis' "if only the Fuhrer knew", which allowed people say aloud if things were being mismanaged by adding the caveat that if Hitler knew about it he would solve it immediately. Do they have any way to see someone stealing a sign and have the hotel manager say to the cops, "I know the official line is this is America undermining us and only our great leader is saving us, but we know that's baloney, so let's just focus on dealing with theft, fights, and parties getting out of hand, and if anyone asks of course it's all about our amazingly wonderful leader or whatever."

From what I've gathered from reading travel blogs and first hand accounts of visits to NK, listening to a few podcasts, and reading a book by a journalist who disguised herself as an evangelical christian who was disguising herself as an English teacher (confusing, I know), most of the citizens of NK have no clue about what their country does. Only a few of the highest ranking officials would be privvy to the real truth. Everyone else who might be involved with the caretaking of prisoners, or medical treatment, or what have you... are either A) lied to, B) can't trust what they've been told and assume they've been lied to, C) told not to ask questions.

Most of these citizens have lived their entire life believing THEY are the luckiest people in the world because they live in North Korea and their leader is the sole person to thank for that. They've been taught to believe that the US initiated the Korean War to seige control of Korea at a time when they were at their weakest. They believe the US gained control of the southern region but was stopped from invading the north by their big, strong, and powerful army. When they look out at the demilitarized zone and see US soldiers standing alongside South Korean soldiers, they believe we are forcing the SK soldiers to be there. In other words, they've been told that SK and its citizens are being held hostage by their enemy, the United States, and that we're just waiting to pounce on them to do the same. The US purposely ripped their country apart and are keeping them from reuniting with their loved ones. That's what they believe. It's easy to see why they could easily hate us if that's what they've been told all this time.

Not only that---but I've read (or heard it said over and over again) the lies are so rampant in NK that it makes you feel crazy and question everything you see or hear. Products that no one can afford to buy are made just to prove to foreigners that they can make them. Elaborate buildings have been constructed but left empty. Everything is a show - as if the entire country is putting on a play - except the actors don't know they're acting. It's crazy sad to think about actually.

Of course, there are citizens who probably ask themselves a lot of questions... but they will NEVER voice them aloud. They've seen too many people executed or sent to prison camps for questioning these things. The country is ran on sheer horror. Every bedroom, classroom, bathroom, and telephone are under constant surveillance. Your house is randomly searched without warning at any time during the day or night. The borders are heavily guarded and you will be sent to a prison camp for trying to leave the country. Not only that, but you put your family members in danger of being punished the same. They have a caste system and punishments handed down to those in a "hostile" class are also handed down to three generations of their family. They ones who actually figure it out are probably worse off anyway because there isn't anything they can do but keep their mouth shut and pretend to believe all of the bull***** lies they've been told. The old saying "ignorance is bliss" couldn't be more fitting. The truth is a bitter pill to swallow and we all eat lies when our hearts are hungry.

 

[dotr]

All work apparently inspired by their leader.

[video=youtube;zLQ3lFhckLg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLQ3lFhckLg&feature=player_embedded[/video]

 

[dotr]

http://www.cp24.com/world/n-korea-t...resident-with-miserable-dog-s-death-1.3479866

June 28, 2017
SEOUL, Korea, Republic Of -- North Korea has vowed to execute South Korea's former president and her spy director, accusing them of planning to assassinate its supreme leadership.
The official Korean Central News Agency said Wednesday that North Korea will impose a "death penalty" on ousted South Korean President Park Geun-hye and former spy chief Lee Byoung Ho, and they could receive a "miserable dog's death any time, at any place and by whatever methods from this moment."

http://ktla.com/2017/06/28/congress...-travel-ban-following-death-of-otto-warmbier/

[h=1]Congress Readies North Korean Travel Ban Following Death of Otto Warmbier[/h] June 28, 2017

Wilson and Schiff’s bill was introduced before Warmbier’s death, but his ordeal — the 22-year-old college student from Ohio suffered brain damage while imprisoned leading to his death — has added urgency to efforts to pass a new law curbing travel to the country.

“Sadly, because of Otto Warmbier it’s certainty been expedited,” Wilson said in an interview. “The American people need to do know this. Because it does sound exotic to go to a Hermit Kingdom, but it’s not exotic, it’s dangerous and you’re dealing with a maniacal society.”

 

[dotr]

rbbm
http://fpif.org/honoring-otto-warmbier/

Warmbier was described as an intellectually curious kid. He was double majoring in commerce and economics with a minor in global sustainability. A sports fan and fraternity member, he also liked to have a good time. From the photos and videos taken by other members of his tour group, Warmbier looks like he’s enjoying himself sightseeing and engaging in a snowball fight.
Before he could board the plane and leave North Korea with the rest of his group, however, North Korean authorities pulled him aside. They wouldn’t let him leave. He had one last phone call with one of the tour guides in which he reported having a headache so severe that he wanted to go to the hospital. Twenty days later, the North Korean authorities announced that they were detaining Warmbier for committing a “hostile act.”

But North Korea is notoriously sensitive about what it considers offenses to the state and its leadership. Before I made my first trip to North Korea, I was well briefed on protocol. Don’t throw out a copy of the newspaper – if it contains a picture of Kim Jong Il, then you are inadvertently insulting the leadership. Don’t fold a North Korean banknote in half – if it features a picture of Kim Il Sung, then you are inadvertently insulting the leadership.
In other words, you have to be especially careful when you’re visiting North Korea. Drinking a lot and engaging in high-spirited camaraderie is natural for college students abroad. But it’s not such a good idea in North Korea

I’d like to believe that the best way of honoring his legacy would be to avoid war on the Korean peninsula, work to release other foreign detainees, and encourage citizen-to-citizen exchanges with North Korea. By improving the economic and social conditions of the North Korean population, we can best ensure that nobody has to face whatever Otto Warmbier endured while he was imprisoned in the country.

 

[DeDee]

I participated in a study group when we discussed satellite images of North Korea at night.

A nighttime satellite image of the Korean peninsula taken in 2010

North Korea’s lights tell story of economic redistribution
NASA’s satellite images of the Korean peninsula at night are a well known and graphic visualization of the huge gap in economic development between North and South Korea.

http://www.northkoreatech.org/2015/05/18/north-koreas-lights-tell-story-of-economic-redistribution/

 

[Elainera]

Wow! Thanks for sharing that Dedee!

 

[Pocono Sleuther]

All work apparently inspired by their leader.

[video=youtube;zLQ3lFhckLg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLQ3lFhckLg&feature=player_embedded[/video]

I have never heard of traffic ladies. Retirement by age 26 but men are not held to that rule? I wouldn't last a day in that country with my mouth. Lol Thanks for sharing this!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[cujenn81]

I participated in a study group when we discussed satellite images of North Korea at night.

A nighttime satellite image of the Korean peninsula taken in 2010

Yes... it's crazy insane.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.businessinsider.com/north-korea-is-pitch-black-at-night-2015-10

In response to criticisms that North Korea is too weak to power itself, the state-run newspaper, the Rodong Sinmun, issued the statement last year that "They [North Korea's detractors] clap their hands and get loud over a satellite picture of our city with not much light, but the essence of society is not on flashy lights."

Or considering the recent photos, any lights for that matter.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[DeDee]

Yes... it's crazy insane.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.businessinsider.com/north-korea-is-pitch-black-at-night-2015-10

In response to criticisms that North Korea is too weak to power itself, the state-run newspaper, the Rodong Sinmun, issued the statement last year that "They [North Korea's detractors] clap their hands and get loud over a satellite picture of our city with not much light, but the essence of society is not on flashy lights."

Or considering the recent photos, any lights for that matter.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Another observation that we made is that South Korea has taken advantage of their geographical position and built the economy around their ports of call.