AZ AZ - Pima Co., WhtFem UP17112, 16-27, found on Mt Lemmon, Apr'72

No specific ads because they were sold only at selling-parties. No ads is actually very normal ��
For the present, I am not that sure about Donnis.

And for its selling dates, our best bet is calling Avon. I'll do that as soon as I finish dealing with no health coverage in January (and it's a mess)


If my memory serves correctly, you didn't dye your hair blond at 15yo.

Don't agree for no ads....new color, new lipstick line...I think they would have advertised for this, as they did for a lot of other products and lipstick colors (the new colors of the season) only when it was already a standard color (always in the collection) you would not....test tubes where given out to promote a new line..sounds more logic to me.
 
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Problems with reply with quote. this is for Shadowdancer about Ms Webb. Most likely...dna of both is available....the oldest missing person from AZ....some things in the story could be possible.....being this UID.....would be rare....I would think this is the first search you do...
 
What I wonder is how it is possible that the clothes have not deteriorated or ruined with rain, the snow, the sun, for all these years... the place was isolated and remote, but was it covered by trees and vegetation?
 
Problems with reply with quote. this is for Shadowdancer about Ms Webb. Most likely...dna of both is available....the oldest missing person from AZ....some things in the story could be possible.....being this UID.....would be rare....I would think this is the first search you do...

You've got the wrong user. There is an individual by that screen name here but it's not me.
 
About the Avon. It was sold Door to door. Those little lipsticks were samples given to customers to try out a particular color before they bought it. Reps were pretty free with giving them away. I remember reps giving them to me as a child and I would carry them in my little purse. This would've been the early to mid 60s. She could've had the sample given to her and had it in her pocket because it was smaller and more handy than a regular lipstick.
 
What I wonder is how it is possible that the clothes have not deteriorated or ruined with rain, the snow, the sun, for all these years... the place was isolated and remote, but was it covered by trees and vegetation?

Good thought, especially as far more fabrics would have been natural rather than synthetic at that time, so much more biodegradeable.
 
I would think this is the first search you do...
I disagree with this specific. Because we have zero solid element to submit to LE/ME. Info is way too scant to ask for a specific check. As the CODIS budget was cut, they are very reluctant to make manual comparisons without solid clues.
So, in theory, you're right.
But IRL, we can't do it because of $$$$$$$, the war's nerve !

Instead, I would start with contacting Avon to get the list of reps in Western US (because AZ is Western US) between the '50s and '60s. Why such broad range ? Because EDD can be easily way off. Western US because IUD might not be necessarily of AZ, and who dumped her might had tried to conceal IUD's whereabouts.
After we get this list, we can start working to ID our JD.
If we have more solid clues for Donnis, then, we'll be able to submit her for a potential match.

I said that Donnis is a very weak possible. But discussing for hours about whatever she is a match to submit or not won't give us more elements.
We need to contact Avon for more clues. Pray they'll agree with helping !!
 
So, I found through a 1960 catalog that the "Pagoda" is the shade color http://h92010.eos-intl.net/H92010/OPAC/Details/Record.aspx?BibCode=4245863, you need to download the PDF to see it.

The problem is that not all Avon's historical catalogs are digitalized. So, someone local of Washington DC needs to go to the Hagley library : http://h92010.eos-intl.net/H92010/OPAC/Index.aspx

So, any WS local of Washington DC ?
We need to know when the Pagoda shade went out of selling.


Unless calling an Avon rep in the US, but the time difference is the key issue here :-/
 
JMO:

With a height of 5' (62") and 25-25 1/2" waist,I'd put her weight between 100-120.
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In 1959, Tucson was still very small, and the influences from "the South" (Southerners trying to gentrify Arizona) made it bad etiquette for women to wear jeans, unless at a rodeo or parade. With a "side zip", I would think they were "dress" jeans. If you were a woman working horses or cattle, you wore men's jeans (cheaper and tougher). And denim was very durable back then.

If they are dress jeans, the pearl button may have come from a dressy western shirt.

The moccasin shoes would have made the ensemble.

What is missing is a hat, a hat of any kind. If this female was hiking in the hills, she would have worn a hat. "White" women still tried to shield their skin from any type of "tan". (Begs the question "was she hiking, or taken there against her will?" I *believe the later*) The hat (felt or straw) may have blown away, feel apart from the elements or rodents, or she never had one. Also a belt. It was the style with western pants.

Short permed hair was pretty much the norm, especially in the hot climate.

As a Native Arizonan, I can tell you, "The Desert always gives up it's secrets". Humidity between 7-12% is common, we traditionally have minimal amounts of rain, and much of the snow is "dry", it justs falls apart in your hands until it gets above freezing. It's a very good place for preserving bones, many times dried flesh, articles of clothing, and the like. Think of it as a giant dehydrator. Sun, shade, or under the dirt, Arizona does a pretty good job of preserving things.

The 12 coins, the newest being 1959. I'd say she died in 1959-1961.

She may have been a parade/rodeo spectator, participant, or a cowboy groupie, girlfriend, or wife. She *may* have worked at a western theme steak house. Was she an extra for a film production at Old Tucson Studios, or an employee when it was opened to the public in 1960? Any of those would make it easy to delay a missing persons report until the next town, next State, or not at all.

An back in 1959-1961, there was nothing out there where her remains were found.

JMO.
 

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Tucson 1959............use your "zoom"............

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In 1959, Tucson was still very small,

According to Wikipedia (yes, I know) it grew more than four-fold between 1950 and 1960, from 45,000 to 212,000 inhabitants.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tucson,_Arizona

That's an awful lot of people who came to the area from other parts of the US who may have lost contact with their families elsewhere in the country and therefore had nobody to report them missing. Statistically there's around a 75% chance that she arrived in the area during that decade and that she had been born and spent at least some years elsewhere. This is one of those cases in which isotope analysis would help to clarify a specific point about her origins.
 
This is one of those cases in which isotope analysis would help to clarify a specific point about her origins.

I agree, one has to see if the condition of the bones was good when they were found and I think they saw that they found it was a white woman despite many years of death; then today I think, correct me if I'm wrong with the techniques and the new technology they can work on bones and very old finds.
 
I agree, one has to see if the condition of the bones was good when they were found and I think they saw that they found it was a white woman despite many years of death; then today I think, correct me if I'm wrong with the techniques and the new technology they can work on bones and very old finds.

DNA testing is improving all the time, especially with techniques which amplify very tiny samples into usable quantities. However DNA can also degrade significantly depending on how the remains have been "stored", for want of a better word, ie whether they are buried or left exposed and the sort of weather conditions they are exposed to.

Namus shows DNA being available so the remains must have survived pretty well in terms of weathering, but Namus also reports that dental charting and information is not available. This seems strange considering that her hair was found and was "Brown; medium brown, slightly curly, length ranges from 4" to 6 1/2"", which means that they should be able to do analysis of her hair and determine roughly where she'd been living for the 4-6 months before her death.

I think we need clarification on the teeth and dental issue.
 
The Hagley Museum replied to me about the lipstick Pagoda shade.

It was discontinued in 1960, per their email.

Excellent update. I would imagine that means that the last supplies would have been sold by the end of 1960 and probably used up by customers by the end of 1961.
 

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