TX - 26 dead, 20 injured in church shooting, Sutherland Springs, 5 Nov 2017 #2

[JaneEyre]

I’ve read the House was valued between $800,000 to $1,000,000.
From memory, it sat on 28 acres

The 2 acres and house is assessed at nearly 800,000. Additional acreage worth more. Tax assessments are often lower than what a current appraisal would put it at.

https://www.ksat.com/news/texas-church-shooter-lived-on-parents-793-000-estate

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[CARIIS]

I'm not sure I can be led to believe that if the Air Force had notified the FBI none of this would have happened. With that said I know he would have had to find a way to acquire guns illegally. But honestly in Texas that's not very difficult. And I'm pretty sure a lunatic criminal that wants to murder innocent church goers could give two *advertiser censored* about violating guns laws. Now should the Air Force have submitted him into the system? Absolutely! But to claim that they are absolutely responsible for this guy killing? Idk seems like a stretch to me. Moo


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I agree totally. The issue is acute mental illness. A societal failure - it it IMO easier to blame an entity .

A ruckus will be made some forms will be changed , and we will be starting thread after thread .

Gives politicians and pundits some stuff to talk about until the next one..........

moo

 

[kittythehare]

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-41906203

Every Town For Gun Safety, a campaign group, turned to the FBI's published data on these appalling crimes and analysed the histories of each attacker. It found that in 54% of the shootings the victims were current or former intimate partners or other family members.

The analysis also found that in more than 40% of cases, the shooter had "exhibited warning signs" such as violent or threatening behaviour that indicated they were a danger to themselves or others

When it analysed the remaining incidents over the 15 years to 2013, it found that a fifth of the 66 public-place mass shootings had been "possibly triggered" by a domestic row.

 

[CARIIS]

Society wise we would probably be better off in the long haul funding mental health, while not making it easier for those suffering with mental illness to obtain guns

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[/FONT]https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/trump-signs-bill-revoking-obama-era-gun-checks-people-mental-n727221

 

[MistyWaters]

I'm not sure I can be led to believe that if the Air Force had notified the FBI none of this would have happened. With that said I know he would have had to find a way to acquire guns illegally. But honestly in Texas that's not very difficult. And I'm pretty sure a lunatic criminal that wants to murder innocent church goers could give two *advertiser censored* about violating guns laws. Now should the Air Force have submitted him into the system? Absolutely! But to claim that they are absolutely responsible for this guy killing? Idk seems like a stretch to me. Moo


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I agree strongly. Even jail does not make for a better person. We live in a society that's become obsessed in finding something to blame. I'm willing to bet DK lived his entire life with a chip on his shoulder - always blaming something, the wife, the kid, the dog, the MIL. Then he commits this horrific crime and the irony is that the media and in turn the general public seek out stories and elude to theories for who to blame - maybe his family, maybe the AirForce, maybe LE and so it goes.

The public mindset that "something" could have prevented this tragedy --- if this had happened or if that were done --- does nothing to prevent further tragedies from occurring. We can be sure some nutcase out there is reading the headlines, watching how DK is becoming portrayed as as almost a helpless victim of bureaucratic bungling and how that's to blame. It becomes a vicious circle in reinforcing the mindset, blame becomes justified.

JMO

 

[sds71]

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-texas-shooter-20171107-story,amp.html

Texas gunman's long slide to mass murder began when he attacked his own family

 

[canadiangirl]

I have missed the Amazon stuff. Could you post the link to that ?

I'm not certain we're allowed. Someone asked but I didn't see a mod response back.


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[BayouBelle_LA]

Uncle of Sutherland Springs church gunman calls him a 'coward'

http://www.chron.com/news/local/tex...land-Springs-church-gunman-calls-12339232.php

Ivey says he attempted to contact Kelley hours before the Sunday shooting after seeing a troubling Facebook post on Kelley's page that said "he wasn't thinking correctly and his head hurt." Ivey says he private messaged Kelley, asking if he was OK, but didn't hear back.

 

[Inthedetails]

Uncle of Sutherland Springs church gunman calls him a 'coward'

http://www.chron.com/news/local/tex...land-Springs-church-gunman-calls-12339232.php

Ivey says he attempted to contact Kelley hours before the Sunday shooting after seeing a troubling Facebook post on Kelley's page that said "he wasn't thinking correctly and his head hurt." Ivey says he private messaged Kelley, asking if he was OK, but didn't hear back.

After everything I've read about the perp, I'm skeptical about that last post. Did he post that as a possible "defense" for his actions in the event he wasn't killed but survived and was put on trial? Was he setting up a mentally ill defense?

I don't know.....I could be wrong, but I'm not in the mood to believe him at this point.

jmopinion

 

[Bernina]

That suggests he was thinking of starting his own club?
MC clubs include 1 percenter clubs.. thats why am asking..
The descriptions of his killing methodology is suggestive of militia training, real or wannabe is unclear yet

Believe me, he would NOT get past the "Prospect" stage of any 1% club, or find a sponsor for that matter.

There's a lot you have to do to just to become a "riding group", let alone a "club". Even your "riding" group's name has to go through a process if you want it official...........

Rag tag militia? Maybe, but I think he was just a "wanna be".

 

[Bernina]

I'm not sure I can be led to believe that if the Air Force had notified the FBI none of this would have happened. With that said I know he would have had to find a way to acquire guns illegally. But honestly in Texas that's not very difficult. And I'm pretty sure a lunatic criminal that wants to murder innocent church goers could give two *advertiser censored* about violating guns laws. Now should the Air Force have submitted him into the system? Absolutely! But to claim that they are absolutely responsible for this guy killing? Idk seems like a stretch to me. Moo


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But............this is what we're left with. If the AF had done it's job, he might have still been incarcerated or in a mental hospital. Seriously, dude brought weapons onto the base in hopes of killing his superior officers, brutalized his then wife and stepson, was dumped into a mental hospital, ESCAPED, and much more.........that was all on the AF's watch.

 

[1&2&3]

Yesterday evening while in the car there was a speaker on NPR discussing this situation. It actually sounded like the government blaming the Air Force and the Air Force turning the pointer around to the government! A normal situation for too long in the US. No one wants to accept the blame for failure to do their job!

A closing statement in favor of the AIr Force was similar to 'the Air Force has more important things to keep up with than Cases resulting from DV. These are too frequent ....'. I see their point, in that their job is not to settle all the disputes between these couples, of which there are many and many violent ones. Keeping accurate records is one thing, following the red tape in all the reporting is an area "they cut out of their busy work". My thoughts.

In my own words, if a person wants a gun, he/she will get it one way or another. legal or illegal. Why concentrate on this one incident when there are thousands of issues in our upper level echelon that are ignored daily? JMO.

After the next big incident, we will hear oh, we heard rumors, or we had checked them out and they didn't seem to be a problem . . .

 

[JaneEyre]

Yesterday evening while in the car there was a speaker on NPR discussing this situation. It actually sounded like the government blaming the Air Force and the Air Force turning the pointer around to the government! A normal situation for too long in the US. No one wants to accept the blame for failure to do their job!

A closing statement in favor of the AIr Force was similar to 'the Air Force has more important things to keep up with than Cases resulting from DV. These are too frequent ....'. I see their point, in that their job is not to settle all the disputes between these couples, of which there are many and many violent ones. Keeping accurate records is one thing, following the red tape in all the reporting is an area "they cut out of their busy work". My thoughts.

In my own words, if a person wants a gun, he/she will get it one way or another. legal or illegal. Why concentrate on this one incident when there are thousands of issues in our upper level echelon that are ignored daily? JMO.

After the next big incident, we will hear oh, we heard rumors, or we had checked them out and they didn't seem to be a problem . . .

'the Air Force has more important things to keep up with than Cases resulting from DV. These are too frequent ....'.

Problem 1 - That they see DV and severe child abuse as not important enough to keep up with (or give appropriate sentencing for).

Problem 2 - That it is a frequent crime among Air Force members.

Problem 3 - That they don't recognize that #2 in itself is a huge problem that they need to explore and find out why.

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[Inthedetails]

Yesterday evening while in the car there was a speaker on NPR discussing this situation. It actually sounded like the government blaming the Air Force and the Air Force turning the pointer around to the government! A normal situation for too long in the US. No one wants to accept the blame for failure to do their job!

Snipped by me.

I heard that segment too....while chopping vegetable for dinner.

Just making a side note....carry on.

 

[MzOpinion8d]

It is required in tx plus a shooting proficiency. In that class he would have been informed in general he didn’t qualify. They go over what prevents you from getting a permit. I doubt they asked who has committed felonies or has been charged with domestic violence and explicitly told him he didn’t but the rules are covered. I believe he knew he couldn’t legally own a weapon, he just didn’t think the rules applied to him.

Apparently the rules actually didn't apply to him.

 

[MzOpinion8d]

That's the one he was caught for. If we were to investigate I think this has been a lifelong pattern of abuse. If not when did it start? I'd like to know what psych meds he was on. Some have crazy side effects.

He doesn't strike me as the type to adhere to a medication regimen.

 

[MzOpinion8d]

So much we don't know. I'm sure in time. Given funerals have not even taken place I think it not an appropriate time for those who had bad experiences with the killer to speak out. IMO

I'm pretty sure this reluctance to speak of uncomfortable things is precisely what led to this situation in the first place.

 

[MzOpinion8d]

Looking at him with the domestic violence issue, I would not be surprised if he has a history of bullying.

This made me laugh. I think it's the understatement of the decade!

 

[x_files]

This is banana cakes!!!

agreed. Why were these threats dismissed? wth...

 

[lorelei2017]

I’m honestly like three or four pages behind but this house in Texas may be $500-$600k. In other states it would be well over $2mil. That’s why every one seems to be moving here.

Some places in New Braunfels, the property alone would cost that

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