CA - 13 victims, ages 2 to 29, shackled in home by parents, Perris, 15 Jan 2018 #8

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“A neighbor came along. She told him to take her to a telephone,” said Nellie Baldwin, who doesn’t know where the neighbor took the girl or who the girl called, but believes she called 911

https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/01...-texas-after-daughter-tried-to-call-for-help/

So she doesn't know where the person who picked her up took her and she BELIEVES she called 911. Why hasn't NB said who this person is? NB must have spoken to the person who picked up the child to have any information at all about the incident. And the person didn't tell her, and she didn't ask, where that person took her? Strange. NB also admittedly doesn't know who the girl called so she doesn't know if the girl even called the police for help or not---or called anyone.
 
“A neighbor came along. She told him to take her to a telephone,” said Nellie Baldwin, who doesn’t know where the neighbor took the girl or who the girl called, but believes she called 911

https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/01...-texas-after-daughter-tried-to-call-for-help/

So she doesn't know where the person who picked her up took her and she BELIEVES she called 911. Why hasn't NB said who this person is? NB must have spoken to the person who picked up the child to have any information at all about the incident. And the person didn't tell her, and she didn't ask, where that person took her? Strange. NB also admittedly doesn't know who the girl called so she doesn't know if the girl even called the police for help or not---or called anyone.

So we basically don't know who this neighbor is, whether the daughter wound up calling 911, whether or not the police came out, why she was returned the house if she left, etc. This story is very strange.
 
Gnats are teeny tiny biting insects.

I think this might be one of those "two nations separated by a common language" things, we've developed different words for things, we sometimes use the same word for a different thing (suspenders, for instance, are different things in British English and American English) and then add in dialectical differences on top. So maybe you're referring to what we call midges? What my mum called a gnat was a biting thing that has a high pitch buzzing sound and massive groups of them fly around moist patches in very hot weather, which I believe is a mosquito.
 
So we basically don't know who this neighbor is, whether the daughter wound up calling 911, whether or not the police came out, why she was returned the house if she left, etc. This story is very strange.

Key word: 'Story'
 
I kept that round-body picture open from an earlier thread as I was so fascinated by it, and I was also curious about the letters on it that look like a signature.

Although it has a child-like appearance with the stick-arms, the art is quite high-quality and does not look like it's been done by a very young child to me. It looks like an impressionistic/cartoon type thing done by an older mind. Young children don't form eyes in that way, they usually either make dots or wildish circles. I also thought that the circles of the body were very well-formed, and again that's a skill that comes from a lot of practice in an older child.

My fear was that the signature was something like JTVI. It didn't seem to be any of their names, not even in awkward handwriting from lack of handwriting practice or nerve damage in the hands/lack of fine motor control. And the drawing itself doesn't seem to suggest a major problem with holding a pen/pencil and having good control of it.

So, even aside from us not being able to comprehend the subject matter in the drawing, there's a lot more there for analysis...
 
I kept that round-body picture open from an earlier thread as I was so fascinated by it, and I was also curious about the letters on it that look like a signature.

Although it has a child-like appearance with the stick-arms, the art is quite high-quality and does not look like it's been done by a very young child to me. It looks like an impressionistic/cartoon type thing done by an older mind. Young children don't form eyes in that way, they usually either make dots or wildish circles. I also thought that the circles of the body were very well-formed, and again that's a skill that comes from a lot of practice in an older child.

My fear was that the signature was something like JTVI. It didn't seem to be any of their names, not even in awkward handwriting from lack of handwriting practice or nerve damage in the hands/lack of fine motor control. And the drawing itself doesn't seem to suggest a major problem with holding a pen/pencil and having good control of it.

So, even aside from us not being able to comprehend the subject matter in the drawing, there's a lot more there for analysis...

Could JTVI = J.T. 6? (Roman numeral VI = 6).

In other words, the sixth child?

No idea. Just speculating.
 
I think this might be one of those "two nations separated by a common language" things, we've developed different words for things, we sometimes use the same word for a different thing (suspenders, for instance, are different things in British English and American English) and then add in dialectical differences on top. So maybe you're referring to what we call midges? What my mum called a gnat was a biting thing that has a high pitch buzzing sound and massive groups of them fly around moist patches in very hot weather, which I believe is a mosquito.

Mosquitoes are different than gnats.
 
Could JTVI = J.T. 6? (Roman numeral VI = 6).

In other words, the sixth child?

No idea. Just speculating.

That was my fear. But the second letter could also be a smaller upper case/capital F, and not a T?
 
So we basically don't know who this neighbor is, whether the daughter wound up calling 911, whether or not the police came out, why she was returned the house if she left, etc. This story is very strange.

It was a long time ago and the neighbor only found oit now about the significance of it. Who would remember something like,that?
 
It was a long time ago and the neighbor only found oit now about the significance of it. Who would remember something like,that?

I actually would. Someone telling me about a child asking them to take her to the phone to call the police? I obsess over far less things in my life and remember less significant details.

I get your point; I still think it's strange.
 
Could JTVI = J.T. 6? (Roman numeral VI = 6).

In other words, the sixth child?

No idea. Just speculating.

I wondered if it was some sort of nickname like Jevi or Jeni. It is so puzzling to me and I don't think we'll ever know for sure what that drawing is saying.
 
I actually would. Someone telling me about a child asking them to take her to the phone to call the police? I obsess over far less things in my life and remember less significant details.

I get your point; I still think it's strange.

Of course one would remember he incident, but over the years, details get forgotten.
 
I have to say that if a neighbor child approached me asking for help and a ride and info on how to escape such as how to get a driver's license and how to reach the police, I would help that child and drive them to the police station to tell their story. I would feel obligated as a normal person and I would have to help the child. I don't understand why someone, apparently a police officer, would return them to the abusive home the child was allegedly trying to escape. Did the officer even inspect the home and notice it was trashed and the siblings were also suffering and starving? Or take the child seriously? I have so many questions.
 
Just a personal note from experience, I don't know if it still exists. I saw that they purchased the home through an FHA loan. FHA require screens on Windows. At least they did a long time ago. Somebody else may know what is current.

Also I keep seeing again and again notes about Stockholm Syndrome. I saw an interview with Elizabeth Smart about 3 weeks ago? I can't remember where it was on. But she the vehemently denied as to Stockholm syndrome. She said it was for survival, it was not Stockholm syndrome! She was very very strongly against people calling at Stockholm Syndrome.

Has any victim ever came out and admitted that they had Stockholm Syndrome? I wouldn't put much stake in any victim denying it. If my memory of that case is correct, she heard searchers calling her name but didn't answer them. She then started following her kidnaper around town to restaurants, stores, and libraries, but still made no attempt to get help from anyone. If that is not Stockholm Syndrome, I don't know what is, whether she wants to call it that or not.
 
I think that maybe the kids cut the screen instead of removing it because 1) they didn’t know it could come off so easily; or 2) removing it could make more noise; and/or 3) removing it would be far more obvious, so they cut the hole at shrub-level and escaped into the shrub, which would also give them more cover from neighbors potentially seeing them escape.

I would bet #2.
 
Could JTVI = J.T. 6? (Roman numeral VI = 6).

In other words, the sixth child?

No idea. Just speculating.

Just speculating here too, but it's got my interest peaked.

I would imagine that IF one of the kids drew this while they were all living there it would of been something that would come with a punishment.

IF the child was hoping someone would see this after the family left, it would of have to be done very fast and right before they left the house for good. The name looks like it was written in a rush. The body would have taken time.
 
Has there been any information on which child was walking down the street/running away?
 
From the words we've seen so far from the DA's office, and the limited statements from the defense, I think they're trying to set up a game of chicken in preparation for making a plea deal.

The DA has been releasing some factual statements on the terrible conditions in the home, and has also said that he's prepared to get the siblings trial-prepped, and the defense has released a statement (I believe) saying that they don't think they can get a fair trial in Riverside. It seems to me like one side is saying, "you're not going to be able to defend against these kids being on the stand" and the other is saying, "we'll go to trial but in another county", so it feels like they might be making space in the middle for a possible plea deal to avoid the siblings going into court, but also seeing and hearing those siblings on the stand would make for a very powerful statement to the jury, combined with pictures of the shackles and the waste in the home.

...RSBM...
This was a really good post. Several of you have made interesting posts about the possibilities for plea deals or a trial.

I only wanted to add that as mixed up as California seems, they do not seem to me to prefer change of venue (I have no link to support this opinion). OJ Simpson, Betty Broderick, Kate Steinle's killer, the Mansons, Phil Spector... too many cases to remember, they did not get a change of venue. I think the media attention will die down on this case, as it does, and the cause for change of venue will no longer exist.

ETA: I found a link.
http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/sdut-us-change-venue-082209-2009aug22-story.html

"Change of venue court cases are extremely rare
August 22, 2009
The San Diego Union Tribune

... ...Venue changes are a longshot in California, where the state Judicial Council reports that only four of the scores of requests during the past two years have been granted.

"It's rare everywhere. Very, very rare," said Robert Weisberg, a law professor and director of the Criminal Justice Center at Stanford University. "The court system does not like it, because they're very complicated and expensive."

Trial relocations are so uncommon nationwide that the U.S. Department of Justice or the National Center for State Courts in Williamsburg, Va., do not keep such statistics. Nor do three of the five largest states: Texas, New York and Illinois.

To win a venue change, defense attorneys must prove that their clients cannot get justice in the county where the crime occurred. And they commonly argue that media attention or community bias preclude a fair trial. Sometimes they contend that the community is so small that potential jurors have a personal connection with the defendant.

"The burden on the defense is fairly hard," said Mike Vitiello, a professor at the University of Pacific McGeorge School of Law in Sacramento, Calif. "Counsel has to do substantial investigation, polling prospective jurors to show not only familiarty with the case but a settled view of the guilt of the defendant."..."
 
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