FL - 17 killed in Stoneman Douglas H.S. shooting, Parkland, 14 Feb 2018 #1 *Arrest*

[Spellbound]

Quoting from Tricia's avatar (actually at the right side of her posts)

Three things cannot be long hidden: the sun, the moon, and the truth. Buddha​

 

[CARIIS]

Bump stocks

If I told you it is legal to have cocaine if you dont snort it how long would it take you to ponder if I need to go somewhere?



no word s

This means it's likely legal to sell or manufacture bump-fire stocks in the state, but illegal to attach one to a rifle.

Is that not the stupidest sentence you have read ?

where does congress even come up with their stupid sh@@

its scary

Congress are idiots all of em - Republicans are backing away from legislation banning “bump stocks” )



closed window sorry goggle search

https://www.google.com/search?q=con...wKRqL7ADA&start=40&sa=N&biw=680&bih=331&dpr=2

 

[gitana1]

Our society slays me with all the ways we ensure that a shooter like this becomes an "other". Oh he had mental issues, he's not like me. He was a loner, he's not like me. He is an immigrant, he's not like me. Every situation becomes an isolated incident that happened in a vacuum, rather than a symptom of a broken, toxic society. And then we say we need God in our lives like praying has ever helped.

Truth is, these shooters are generally born just like the rest of us, with a clean, sane slate. Over time, they are abused, neglected, isolated, bullied, told to be something they aren't, told they are this that or the other. Society raises these boys to be the violent, aggressive, hate-filled men they are. That's the bottom line. Look around us, we shame children for expressing themselves. We tell boys to "man up" and stop crying. We don't let boys wear pink. We call effeminate men "sissies."

We refuse to acknowledge that times today are not the same as they were 50-100 years ago. We refuse to acknowledge our own role in things like this. How we perpetuate it in hundreds of ways every day and that "crazy" people like this guy will take all those little microaggressions and internalize them and take them out on innocent schoolkids.

We have to start by recognizing that we as a society are part of the problem. If we can't even do that, we will NEVER solve this problem. All, JMO. Obviously.

You make a lot of sense. However, science tells us that there are things that make people like this different from everyone else. Nothing this far suggests his family wasn't nothinf but loving and trying to do the best they could. (Of course that can change but bear with me).

Some people are born with the propensity for serious behavioral issues.

But you're right. How we dehumanize people who aren't typical...I think that plays a huge part.

I hope every school will create policies to encourage students to try to embrace the quiet, the quirky and the struggling. To show them some compassion and acceptance. It might go a long way.

I think about that silly Adam Sandler movie where he goes back to school. And at some point he realizes certain things and goes to the house of a guy he used to bully. He apologizes. The guy says ok and closes the door. He's got a gun and crosses the character's name off a list he has, of people he intends to target.

Its a comedy but there is some truth there.

 

[Bit of hope]

I hear ya. Here's the thing. And people aren't going to like me for this. But I think both sides of the debate are responsible for our problem. When people are attacked for something they believe in, they become more entrenched in and defensive about their position and less able to discuss compromise.

When people view things simplistically and from positions of moral authority or arrogance, solutions become farther apart because everyone stops listenting to each other. It becomes us versus them. Stupid versus smart. Crazy versus sane.

I realize that when feelings are so strong someone like me coming in and lecturing about understanding are irritants. I seem wishy washy to many and not understanding the easy logic of the issue.

But I've studied American culture for a couple decades. That's what I got my BA in and I've continued to study ever since.

I've also been an activist on many issues since I was fairly young. So I'm truly not wishy washy!!

For me the fact remains that ours is a unique culture with unique problems so our solutions have to be different. And they will never manifest until we get down off our high horses and out of our trenches and start realizing that nothing is black and white.

Because holding onto those black and white positions hasn't done a damn thing to stop any of this.

It's complex and involves a host of interrelated issues. Things that have worked in other countries won't easily work in ours. They just won't. IMO.

Thank you...that was just why I told some of my personal experiences.....It's not black or white at all...

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

Adding details, so we all aren't forced to click thru to their website, gifting them traffic in the process. All typos and misspellings are sic.

Does this group identify as a Christian organization? Did the shooter identify as a religious extremist, fighting for God? (bbm)

So.....he was allegedly a member of the "Republic of Florida," a white supremacist group?

10 CODES OF ROF

1. Allegiance to ROF
... My house is your house so long as you are true to the interests of the Republic. ...

2. Allegiance to your race
... There are those outside of the white race who we will inevitably consider allies, But we must not sexually mix with them or pretend that we have no differences.

3. Willingness to wage battle

4. Drug free, Situational awareness
... Drug abuse is the number one obstacle to the recruiting of the young in our society.

5. Sexuality and Partnerships
... I will not have sexual relationships outside my Race, Engage in Bestiality or Pedophilia, Or Homosexuality. I will get married through the Republic Of Florida – Not the state of Florida.

6. Knowledge/Doctrine
... I will learn ROF and secessionist doctrine and have full comprehension of it. ...

7. Acting in official capacity/Militia
If in an organized Militia or volunteer cell I will respect the chain of command while acting in official capacity. ...

8. Honesty
... An ROF operator does not stop until his mission is complete. ... I am a humble servant of the creator.

9. Moral Righteousness
I will strive to be a morally righteous person guided by the will of the creator. Victory is on the side of providence. ...

10. Integrity and Loyalty
... I will not serve 2 masters, I will be true to my people even when nobody is looking.​

https://republicofflorida.wordpress.com/10-codes-of-rof/

 

[Betty P]

Bump stocks

If I told you it is legal to have cocaine if you dont snort it how long would it take you to ponder if I need to go somewhere?

Congress are idiots

no word s

This means it's likely legal to sell or manufacture bump-fire stocks in the state, but illegal to attach one to a rifle.

Is that not the stupidest sentence you have read ?

where does congress even come up with their stupid sh@@

its scary

closed window sorry goggle search

Where do they come up with this? It's cleverly crafted legislation that is written by industry lobbyists, many of whom used to be legislators or worked as legislative staffers.

 

[Hraefn]

At what point does a threat cross the freedom of speech line?

Flashbacks of my law school brief which was on this issue.
The legal issue for school discipline/possible prosecution is whether the conduct amounts to a "true threat."
The lead case on it as it relates to students in a public school is Tinker v. Des Moines Independent Community School District https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tinker_v._Des_Moines_Independent_Community_School_District
Many cases have since taken up the issue as it relates to more modern issues such as cyber threats and bullying (can a school discipline a student for online bullying is another issue under this umbrella).

Here is a law review article on a similar threat that was posted on facebook https://uclawreview.org/2015/01/08/...nt-to-be-revisited-in-elonis-v-united-states/
Here is an MSM article from 2015 about the issue https://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/02/us/supreme-court-rules-in-anthony-elonis-online-threats-case.html

This is a pretty succinct summary of the law as I recall it:

The Supreme Court has ruled that true threats receive no First Amendment protection.1 Unfortunately, the Court has not clearly defined a test for determining what types of speech constitute a true threat.2 As a result, the lower courts have adopted a variety of tests to determine whether speech constitutes a true threat.

http://www.firstamendmentschools.org/freedoms/faq.aspx?id=12996 (the article goes on to discuss the various tests and definitions different courts have given to "true threat")

There is a plethora of sources and case law if you even just google "true threat school cyber threats"

 

[Bit of hope]

Adding details, so we all aren't forced to click thru to their website, gifting them traffic in the process. All typos and misspellings are sic.

Does this group identify as a Christian organization? Did the shooter identify as a religious extremist, fighting for God? (bbm)



10 CODES OF ROF

1. Allegiance to ROF
... My house is your house so long as you are true to the interests of the Republic. ...

2. Allegiance to your race
... There are those outside of the white race who we will inevitably consider allies, But we must not sexually mix with them or pretend that we have no differences.

3. Willingness to wage battle

4. Drug free, Situational awareness
... Drug abuse is the number one obstacle to the recruiting of the young in our society.

5. Sexuality and Partnerships
... I will not have sexual relationships outside my Race, Engage in Bestiality or Pedophilia, Or Homosexuality. I will get married through the Republic Of Florida – Not the state of Florida.

6. Knowledge/Doctrine
... I will learn ROF and secessionist doctrine and have full comprehension of it. ...

7. Acting in official capacity/Militia
If in an organized Militia or volunteer cell I will respect the chain of command while acting in official capacity. ...

8. Honesty
... An ROF operator does not stop until his mission is complete. ... I am a humble servant of the creator.

9. Moral Righteousness
I will strive to be a morally righteous person guided by the will of the creator. Victory is on the side of providence. ...

10. Integrity and Loyalty
... I will not serve 2 masters, I will be true to my people even when nobody is looking.​

https://republicofflorida.wordpress.com/10-codes-of-rof/

I don't know where this is coming from....makes me obnoxious...

 

[TooCurious]

everyone who mentioned guns is getting a time out.
If this person wad mentally stable would he have done this? NO. TAKE THE GUNS OUT OF THE TOPIC AND DISCUSS HOW WE STOP CREATING THESE KIDS WHO KILL !!!!!!

NO GUN TALK

👆👆👆👆👆👆👆👆👆👆👆👆👆👆👆👆👆👆👆

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

It comes from the Republic of Florida (white supremacist/white nationalist) group's website. The shooter is a member, per MSM reports.

I don't know where this is coming from....makes me obnoxious...

 

[CARIIS]

Mental health stuff emerging

CNN

Recall call to dad " I think I may have done something wrong"

Developmental delay/disability -- think of a child in an incubator for 19 years

• A developmental delay is more than being “a little behind” in skills. It’s a substantial lag.
• There are five main areas of development in which kids can have delays.
• Kids can have developmental delays in one or more of these areas of development.

[FONT=arial, sans-serif] developmental delay is more than just being “slower to develop” or “a little behind.” It means your child is continually behind in skills other kids his age have.[/FONT]

[FONT=arial, sans-serif]it is not shy it is not growing up mentally socially emotionally -- a stalled car

[/FONT]Developmental disabilities are issues that kids don’t outgrow or catch up from, though they can make progress. They aren’t the same as learning disabilities, but they can make learning more difficult. Some conditions that can cause developmental disabilities include Down syndrome, Angelman syndrome, autism, fetal alcohol spectrum disorders (FASD) and brain injuries.[FONT=arial, sans-serif]

[/FONT]https://www.understood.org/en/learning-attention-issues/treatments-approaches/early-intervention/what-you-need-to-know-about-developmental-delays

 

[Hatfield]

Part of it also has to do with the inability of Congress to put "clean" bills on the floor for a vote. Both sides often reach common ground on minor, but much needed public policy changes, yet they link the bills to a bunch of other controversial legislation that ends up killing or stalling it. From what I understand, that's what happened with legislation banning bump-stocks after the Las Vegas massacre.

If both sides reach an agreement on good legislation and go public about it, they need to put it out there as a "clean bill", dealing only with the policy change discussed and nothing more. Stop playing games.

Exactly.
I cannot believe the way our government does things sometimes. To me it is nothing short of bribery in how other unrelated things get attached to laws and bills they want to pass. LOL

One side says we will let you have your Bill *advertiser censored* if you allow a million dollars for our new park we need in City YYY. WTH?

 

[Betty P]

Adding details, so we all aren't forced to click thru to their website, gifting them traffic in the process. All typos and misspellings are sic.

Does this group identify as a Christian organization? Did the shooter identify as a religious extremist, fighting for God? (bbm)



10 CODES OF ROF

1. Allegiance to ROF
... My house is your house so long as you are true to the interests of the Republic. ...

2. Allegiance to your race
... There are those outside of the white race who we will inevitably consider allies, But we must not sexually mix with them or pretend that we have no differences.

3. Willingness to wage battle

4. Drug free, Situational awareness
... Drug abuse is the number one obstacle to the recruiting of the young in our society.

5. Sexuality and Partnerships
... I will not have sexual relationships outside my Race, Engage in Bestiality or Pedophilia, Or Homosexuality. I will get married through the Republic Of Florida – Not the state of Florida.

6. Knowledge/Doctrine
... I will learn ROF and secessionist doctrine and have full comprehension of it. ...

7. Acting in official capacity/Militia
If in an organized Militia or volunteer cell I will respect the chain of command while acting in official capacity. ...

8. Honesty
... An ROF operator does not stop until his mission is complete. ... I am a humble servant of the creator.

9. Moral Righteousness
I will strive to be a morally righteous person guided by the will of the creator. Victory is on the side of providence. ...

10. Integrity and Loyalty
... I will not serve 2 masters, I will be true to my people even when nobody is looking.​

https://republicofflorida.wordpress.com/10-codes-of-rof/

It certainly appears they believe they are a religious organization, that it's the foundation of their "mission".

They advocate for overthrowing our government and seceding from the US. Very scary group. They advocate violence and vow to "fight to the death" for their beliefs.


They've been in the news last year. SPLC is keeping an eye on them, but is DHS? Video for source of this info:

http://www.wtxl.com/news/white-nati...l&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer

 

[CARIIS]

Trump says he will visit Parkland, Florida, site of high school mass shooting
by Ali Vitali

WASHINGTON — President Donald Trump said Thursday that he would visit Parkland, Fla., following America's latest deadly mass shooting, which left 17 dead at a high school there Wednesday.

"Our entire nation, with one heavy heart, is praying for the victims and their families," he said Thursday from the White House Diplomatic Room.

"No child, no teacher should ever be in danger in an American school," Trump said. "No parent should ever have to fear for their sons and daughters when they kiss them good-bye in the morning."

Trump also said he planned to visit Parkland to help coordinate the federal response, and would work to help the nation tackle "the difficult issue of mental health." ...

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/wh...eacher-should-ever-be-danger-american-n848281

I did not watch what were some of the suggestions he outlined?

 

[osu]

GALLERY: Victims Killed in Florida High School Mass Shooting
https://www.abcactionnews.com/news/...s-killed-in-florida-high-school-mass-shooting


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[yurena]

I did not watch what were some of the suggestions he outlined?

You did not miss anything of value. No practical action, no useful ideas. Nothing.

 

[jezhead]

Parkland Shooter Nikolas Cruz Bond Court Hearing 02.15.18
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_t9WB5lbJc&feature=youtu.be

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

I did not watch what were some of the suggestions he outlined?

Scripted speech. Acting as Consoler in Chief for nation that is grieving. Says there were plenty of warning signs with the individual responsible. Focus needs to be on mental health. Addressed students and said that they and their parents need to feel that all children are safe in our schools. Will visit Parkland on Saturday (he'll be at Mar-A-Lago for the weekend). Will meet with Governors and state Attorneys General to discuss what can be done to make schools safe.

 

[Tillicum]

IMO we can talk gun control, mental health issues, bullying, school security guards and metal detectors but is anyone talking about movies, you tube, social media, music, video games and children's ability to access the increased glorification of violence?

 

[Betty P]

Exactly.
I cannot believe the way our government does things sometimes. To me it is nothing short of bribery in how other unrelated things get attached to laws and bills they want to pass. LOL

One side says we will let you have your Bill *advertiser censored* if you allow a million dollars for our new park we need in City YYY. WTH?

There have been situations in the past, when partisanship wasn't toxic, that those techniques worked on the occasional bill. These days, the tactic is used punitively and dishonestly - to lie to the public and promise they're doing something only to falsely blame the other group when they don't. Given the significant majorities in both the Senate and House, we know who is driving the game this time.

I really was one of those geeky kids back in the 60's and 70's who used to follow the news in DC. This was not how things were done back then. It's gotten progressively worse beginning in the mid to late 80's. It's just impossible now.