Gun Control Debate #1

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'We're going to get it done': Trump promises change to survivors of Parkland shooting

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/w...urvivors-of-parkland-shooting/article/2649668

Flanked by young students in the White House East Room, the president said school shootings have "been going on for far too long" and he intends to "get it done" when it comes to expanding background checks, ensuring mental health issues are dealt with appropriately, and boosting security at schools across the country.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...mass-shootings-were-going-to-get-it-done.html

A parent from Parkland High School suggested that a select few teachers, administrators, or other school employees volunteer to become a designated “undercover police officer,” to manage a potential tragedy prior to the arrival of first responders.

“If a tragedy strikes, can we wait for first responders to get to the campus minutes later?” the parent said. “The challenge becomes, once it starts, to end it as quickly as possible.”

The president said the administration would look “very strongly” at the option for “concealed carry” at schools, but acknowledged that “a lot of people will be opposed to it.”

“Concealed carry only works for people that are very adept at carrying a gun,” Trump said. “Where a teacher would have a concealed gun on them, go for special training and they would be there and you would no longer have a gun free zone.”

Trump added: “A gun-free zone to a maniac, they’re all cowards, it’s ‘let’s go in and attack because bullets aren’t coming at us.’”
 
So true! My mom used to say that the venison, quail, etc that we ate was the most expensive thing we had, lol! My dad spent a lot of money on hunting. (It was okay - everyone enjoyed it, I'm not complaining....but it wasn't a cheap hobby.)

I respectfully disagree. I use the same gun year after year. My expenses are ammunition, freezer bags and freezer paper. I provided for my family of 4 for a year with 2 (357) shells. I processed burger, steaks, roasts, stew meat and tenderloins. No way I could buy 5 lb. of hamburger for what it costs to get 2 deer. I haven't hunted the last 2 years at our new place but I will again so we can eat better again.
 
Remember how some mothers say the child was a good boy as he is sitting in the electric chair?

Parents often are the ones who are in denial about how disturbed their child may be. In school, one sees that as it is always some other child’s fault, Often children learn the blame game at home.

And how many parents are willing to think of their child as a killer? Lanza’s mother seemed to blame others for why her child was the way he was.

Cruz’s mother wanted to give him away. Can you imagine how that makes a child feel? Don’t worry. Children know more than you realize.

One of the signs of mass killers is domestic violence. Either doing it (as Cruz did) or witnessing it.

There is a good start on domestic violence, but look at the recent revelation of Porter at the White House. Even at the highest levels this exists.

True, but through education, with something as detailed, as the Ten Lessons, provided to parents starting in grade school, or gone over when a child is starting to show behavioral issues in school, maybe it can begin to make a difference. Maybe some just don't know where to turn. I had no back up, with discipline, with my wayward one, until he was nearing age 10. We've been nose to nose and toe to toe. Some parents will not stand up to their child, and once the child has gotten as big as them, it becomes much harder. Maybe they know there's a problem but don't know how to handle the problem.

From OP (sorry can't remember handle) Ten Lessons
https://schoolshooters.info/sites/default/files/ten_lessons_1.2.pdf
 
He wasn't so secret though. He'd made statements about shooting up a school. He'd honed his shooting skills in JROTC, and later joined a hate group, and had done some training with them. While I understand JROTC may be great and all, this particular student might have been looked at a second time, after all of his behaviour issues.



https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/14/us/nikolas-cruz-florida-shooting-suspect/index.html



http://www.miaminewtimes.com/news/white-supremacists-trained-stoneman-shooter-cruz-adl-says-10090954

For what it's worth, though he freely expressed white supremacist views online, it now looks like he had no ties to that particular hate group:

http://www.tallahassee.com/story/ne...ist-militia-tallahassee-leader-say/341751002/
 
For what it's worth, though he freely expressed white supremacist views online, it now looks like he had no ties to that particular hate group:

http://www.tallahassee.com/story/ne...ist-militia-tallahassee-leader-say/341751002/

Thanks. My main focus, while not a fan of hate groups, was the training element (and not hiding his aspirations). Maybe I'm wrong to feel this way, but, a kid with that many red flags, I just don't understand allowing the target shooting aspect. I don't recall them using live rounds, in JROTC, but, he was getting familiar with handling the weapon, he was honing his marksmanship skills, I just don't see it.
 
How fast did bullets move when the second amendment was written and what makes and styles and models of guns were 'fashionable' /available at the time?
Was it written in response to a particular societal need or perceived need ?
Does that need exist today?
What has changed?

I have a feeling the bullets of those days didn't move much quicker than a catapult and the route they took was not very predictable..

I'm finding the talk of hunting is disturbing me.
There's a big sign on my front door that says
BAN BLOODSPORTS.
i share my home with 4 leggeds.. quite a few.. they arrive here with wounds and bruises and half dead because they were hunted by packs of dogs or shot.. by trespassers on MY land hunting the animals under my protection.

I have no gun. I have a megaphone, an airhorn and a tongue that would shame a fishwife.
I screw up more of their hunts than they screw me up.
I know when they are coming, even if in a deep sleep and my 'weapons' are beside my bed and I swear I levitate 6 feet off it when I sense their presence.

I'm about 5ft 2" and I weigh less than 7 stone.. And i'm alone. And they know it.
i can relent on the 2A, if y'all revert to using the weapons it was designed for.

Respectfully, gun advocates under the present state of affairs in America must be either sublimely selfish and narcissistic or entirely insane.


Sentient beings, whether 2 or 4 legged are not ours to kill and destroy.
Guns are for killing.
End of.

rbbm

There's nothing respectful about that statement and it's also unfair and not true.
IMHO
 
4 -chan is a notorious hoaxing site, among other despicable characteristics.
I don't even know why it's still online.

I'd read in another article that a reporter, or the ACLU, had even talked to one of the individuals at that local "group" who said he'd been there. Maybe they were kinda bragging and then the heat got turned on?
 
I'd read in another article that a reporter, or the ACLU, had even talked to one of the individuals at that local "group" who said he'd been there. Maybe they were kinda bragging and then the heat got turned on?
rule-of thumb- if 4 chan is mentioned anywhere in there- leg it!
 
I'd read in another article that a reporter, or the ACLU, had even talked to one of the individuals at that local "group" who said he'd been there. Maybe they were kinda bragging and then the heat got turned on?

Maybe, but this article makes it sound like the guy from that group was either lying or mistaken in what he told people, and/or someone else was impersonating that guy online & making the claim (that Cruz was in the group):

http://time.com/5160819/parkland-shooter-nikolas-cruz-white-supremacist-group/
 
During his listening session today Trump was clutching notes. The last sentence on the list said "I hear you." I guess he had to be coached not to make session about himself.
 
Have I ever said you shouldn't have a gun? No, I said that gun control needs to be tighter. And I have argued all along that suburban American's don't need assault rifles, and even said why does anyone apart from a hunter need a high powered rifle. I get you need a gun to eat, and that is a situation I can fully accept. I can't accept a soccer mom in her SUV sipping on a skinny latte needing an AK47

Sorry but your last sentence is so wrong on so many levels. First, you are clearly stereotyping. Second, statistically you have very little worry of a middle age American woman with children from a middle class background committing active shooting events. It’s obvious she would have a gun in her possession to defend herself from violence, stalkers, rapists, child predators, batterers, burglars, etc.

I understand the bigger point you’re trying to make but I take offense. Would it be more fitting to you if a big, burly guy in his 4x4 pickup truck drinking a Budweiser had an AK47 in the back of his cab? See what I mean.......?
 
I don't mind listening to High School students emotional pleas but I hope that my elected politicians use more educated and seasoned sources when considering gun legislation.

Money talks and that is what "seasoned" sources listen to.
 
Trump advocates arming teachers in response at listening session.
 
Being from Minnesota which once had a lot of hunting, but not as much anymore, I am very familiar with hunting.

It is cheaper to go to the store and buy organic, The cost of hunting is hilariously expensive.

And no one needs an assault rifle. At least rhe hunters in my family have quite a laugh over it.

Actually, the hunters I know have switched to bow hunting which they find more satisfying.

One thing I agree that you posted is this, human: no one needs an assault rifle **especially not criminals or mentally deranged people**......but yet they do have thèm legally or illegally.

If I had it my way, I would love to feel safe with just a Swiss Army knife but the reality is that is laughable in today’s society (especially certain large cities).

In other words, it’s too late..........
 
My dad loved skeet shooting! He went once a week for years and years with a group of relatives and friends.

As much as I'm for gun regulations, I also understand guns can be safely used and enjoyed.

I enjoy both skeet and trap shooting. Used to shoot trap weekly when I was in high school. Haven’t done it for many years now but probably will get back into it someday. Many people use semi-automatic “assault” shotguns for these sports. :freakedout:

High School trap shooting is the fastest growing sanctioned high school sport.

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?365927-Gun-Control-Debate&p=13942157#post13942157
 
Historically, the 2nd amendment was written so that US citizens could keep the King of England from their door. Still a massive problem I believe :giggle:

And then you look at what happens to the **unarmed** citizens of Europe when that crazy mustache guy with the nutty salute came along & wanted to take over the world. And there have been other dictators in Italy and Russia along the way.

But I’m sure many countries have been appreciative of American troops coming in to help rid them of disastrous effects from these monsters for the sake of democracy and freedom. Many of our young men who grew up hunting had to take up arms & were drafted into the military within the past 5 decades ago to help defend others in foreign lands. A lot has happened since the King mattered.
 
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