Missouri - The Springfield Three--missing since June 1992 - #7

[Kristin83]

My apologies if this has been brought up before. My husband and I have been binge watching all the old episodes of Unsolved Mysteries and we watched the one about Angela Hammond the other night. She disappeared from Missouri in 1991. Any theories if the cases are connected?

 

[Blue Girl1991]

For reasons I won't go into at this time, I am placing the grave robbers back on the list as viable suspects.

This is exactly what I believe , the graverobbers or their acquaintances, or a combination of both , Maybe the graverobbers didn't kill but they had some part in this crime, even not in a direct way. I definitely think that if Susie had never met the graverobbers then we didn't have this thread.

I am very curious to know the current reasons that you also see them as very
viable suspects in the list , I respect your wish not to share the reasons right now but I will be very glad if you share them in the future.

 

[jgfitzge]

Hi All, first time commenting on this case and tried to get up to speed as best I could. I grew up in the late 70's early eighties so very familiar with the whole graduation party/get up the next day to a water park (or here on the east coast it was the beach.) The one thing that made may stop and re-read again was the story of Janelle Kirby and her BF Mike coming over to Susie's house the next morning (like 6 hours after Stacy and Susie left her party) and sweeping up the glass on the porch?? What?? OK, was the broom on the porch already or did they enter the premises, look for a broom, find it, then play janitor? I am trying to picture this...They are 18 year's old, arrive at the house at around 9:00 (I have seen a few different times..) at a house they are not familiar with, see the shattered glass, enter the house, see no one there, but someone should be there since the cars and purses are there, dog is acting weird, answer the phone and hear an obscene message, and I assume their suspicions are aroused. So, then they decide to clean the glass up? This just hit a wrong note with me...

 

[barefootpoet]

Hi All, first time commenting on this case and tried to get up to speed as best I could. I grew up in the late 70's early eighties so very familiar with the whole graduation party/get up the next day to a water park (or here on the east coast it was the beach.) The one thing that made may stop and re-read again was the story of Janelle Kirby and her BF Mike coming over to Susie's house the next morning (like 6 hours after Stacy and Susie left her party) and sweeping up the glass on the porch?? What?? OK, was the broom on the porch already or did they enter the premises, look for a broom, find it, then play janitor? I am trying to picture this...They are 18 year's old, arrive at the house at around 9:00 (I have seen a few different times..) at a house they are not familiar with, see the shattered glass, enter the house, see no one there, but someone should be there since the cars and purses are there, dog is acting weird, answer the phone and hear an obscene message, and I assume their suspicions are aroused. So, then they decide to clean the glass up? This just hit a wrong note with me...

Yes, we all consider the complimentary "sweep and toss" by Janelle's BF a bit overcompensating. The "official" timeline is that Janelle began to try to get touch with Suzee on the phone around 9ish and after not getting anyone to answer (after several calls later) Janelle and Mike finally went over to the house around noon.

 

[Missouri Mule]

This is exactly what I believe , the graverobbers or their acquaintances, or a combination of both , Maybe the graverobbers didn't kill but they had some part in this crime, even not in a direct way. I definitely think that if Susie had never met the graverobbers then we didn't have this thread.

I am very curious to know the current reasons that you also see them as very
viable suspects in the list , I respect your wish not to share the reasons right now but I will be very glad if you share them in the future.

I'm not liking the explanations about the time they supposedly had an alibi.

All that was required was a way in. Once that was done, was driven home. There he could have flopped into his own bed or another bed. So unless he can be proven to be in bed, all night long, from about 2:30 AM, he's a suspect. An unwilling suspect most likely but not thinking clearly he allowed this to happen after being talked into it.

I can see that as a viable explanation. He's not talking either.

 

[chestnut&bypass]

Mule, surely there's something to share with the class....I just wrote my name in the dust here!

Seriously, hope all is well and maybe 2018 is the year our three find peace.

 

[Missouri Mule]

Mule, surely there's something to share with the class....I just wrote my name in the dust here!

Seriously, hope all is well and maybe 2018 is the year our three find peace.

Well, perhaps this might interest you. This was not permitted to be posted in another site.

"Not a whole lot going on since last nite. Thank you xxxxxx for this useful information. (regarding old address information sources)

I wanted to reiterate some points that I believe need reinforcing.

1) I rule out completely the crypt vandals. With Mike's sister's observations it was an impossibility for any of them to be involved as the third one was in Illinois. Any further discussion regarding that will be handled between other people. It would appear that Knowles was in fact correct in his questionable investigation that disrupted the normal elimination of suspects. But in any event that is water under the bridge.

2) The "Grand Jury 3". Most of us know who these individuals are thanks to the very good investigative work of Hurricane's "Assistant." who eliminated those who could not be the ones involved. In any event their identities are known.

My best source, otherwise known as "xxxx" or on Air Alex as "xxxxxxxxxxxxxx", had many private discussions with me. He was invariably polite and very informative. This is what is the most salient.

He said (many times) that the perp was known. Left no doubt whatever. He also said a second one was "under control." The only meaning of that would be if the second perp was either dead or he was in prison. We know that Cox, SG and RW, were in prison. That is unquestioned. We do know the other is or was on the street. His last known location was several hundred miles from Springfield.

My source and his good friend went to the work location of the known perp. He had been tracking this individual for well over a decade and there was little to no doubt as to his identity. He was seen in person on the job. The distance was vague but within driving distance. The distance to the third GJ subject has obviously varied over the years but at this time would not be within driving distance in much less than one day. While he can't be ruled out he is not, in my mind, the best selection as the "prime perp" described variously as a "sexual pervert", a "real sicko" and one whose family did not know of his dark predilections.

If we rule out the crypt vandals, the GJ3, who are we left with? No one seems to like the idea of corrupt cops, so let's rule them out. We know that space aliens didn't take them. We know that the women were not raptured.

And we know that the crime scene yielded up little in the way of evidence as the crime scene was so corrupted. I'm not of the bent that the individuals who came to the house played a hand in this crime no matter how stupid and ill advised their actions.

"xxxxxxxxxxxxx" provided the best theory of what happened here. There was a socially maladjusted individual who was rejected by women he approached, for whatever reason. He was obviously of that age where his desires were strong but frustrated. If he were drinking and had a drinking buddy along, it is entirely plausible that he and his friend (the one who didn't realize what he was getting into), came up to the house in a drunken state and the argument proceeded outside the home which would explain why there was no usable DNA evidence found. They talked their way into the vehicle to work out their differences and left with the women who were subdued in some fashion.

They were taken to a second crime scene. Looking back, they realized that there had to be a third woman in the house and went back to get her. This is where Stacy attempted to escape out of the back sliding glass door, was frustrated by the back fence and attempted to get back into the house. She was partially clad, and was dragged out of the house into the vehicle.

At some point, the vehicles were moved around and the house staged where it was found later that day.

To my mind this answers all questions. Critique please."

Note: A reader has suggested that Suzie may have been outside smoking. Sherrill may have as well. That would make sense since in all probability Stacy did not like cigarette smoke. So as a courtesy to her they went outside.

 

[scadagirl28]

Well, perhaps this might interest you. This was not permitted to be posted in another site.

"Not a whole lot going on since last nite. Thank you xxxxxx for this useful information. (regarding old address information sources)

I wanted to reiterate some points that I believe need reinforcing.

1) I rule out completely the crypt vandals. With Mike's sister's observations it was an impossibility for any of them to be involved as the third one was in Illinois. Any further discussion regarding that will be handled between other people. It would appear that Knowles was in fact correct in his questionable investigation that disrupted the normal elimination of suspects. But in any event that is water under the bridge.

2) The "Grand Jury 3". Most of us know who these individuals are thanks to the very good investigative work of Hurricane's "Assistant." who eliminated those who could not be the ones involved. In any event their identities are known.

My best source, otherwise known as "xxxx" or on Air Alex as "xxxxxxxxxxxxxx", had many private discussions with me. He was invariably polite and very informative. This is what is the most salient.

He said (many times) that the perp was known. Left no doubt whatever. He also said a second one was "under control." The only meaning of that would be if the second perp was either dead or he was in prison. We know that Cox, SG and RW, were in prison. That is unquestioned. We do know the other is or was on the street. His last known location was several hundred miles from Springfield.

My source and his good friend went to the work location of the known perp. He had been tracking this individual for well over a decade and there was little to no doubt as to his identity. He was seen in person on the job. The distance was vague but within driving distance. The distance to the third GJ subject has obviously varied over the years but at this time would not be within driving distance in much less than one day. While he can't be ruled out he is not, in my mind, the best selection as the "prime perp" described variously as a "sexual pervert", a "real sicko" and one whose family did not know of his dark predilections.

If we rule out the crypt vandals, the GJ3, who are we left with? No one seems to like the idea of corrupt cops, so let's rule them out. We know that space aliens didn't take them. We know that the women were not raptured.

And we know that the crime scene yielded up little in the way of evidence as the crime scene was so corrupted. I'm not of the bent that the individuals who came to the house played a hand in this crime no matter how stupid and ill advised their actions.

"xxxxxxxxxxxxx" provided the best theory of what happened here. There was a socially maladjusted individual who was rejected by women he approached, for whatever reason. He was obviously of that age where his desires were strong but frustrated. If he were drinking and had a drinking buddy along, it is entirely plausible that he and his friend (the one who didn't realize what he was getting into), came up to the house in a drunken state and the argument proceeded outside the home which would explain why there was no usable DNA evidence found. They talked their way into the vehicle to work out their differences and left with the women who were subdued in some fashion.

They were taken to a second crime scene. Looking back, they realized that there had to be a third woman in the house and went back to get her. This is where Stacy attempted to escape out of the back sliding glass door, was frustrated by the back fence and attempted to get back into the house. She was partially clad, and was dragged out of the house into the vehicle.

At some point, the vehicles were moved around and the house staged where it was found later that day.

To my mind this answers all questions. Critique please."

Note: A reader has suggested that Suzie may have been outside smoking. Sherrill may have as well. That would make sense since in all probability Stacy did not like cigarette smoke. So as a courtesy to her they went outside.

Ok I will give it a go As far as Number 1. I am not sure how one having a alibi solidified the other two . Didn't one say he passed out in his car ? Also was the one in Illinois younger and not graduating ? Stacy was probably terrified but I can't understand her not calling 911 if she had been left behind .

 

[Missouri Mule]

Ok I will give it a go As far as Number 1. I am not sure how one having a alibi solidified the other two . Didn't one say he passed out in his car ? Also was the one in Illinois younger and not graduating ? Stacy was probably terrified but I can't understand her not calling 911 if she had been left behind .

This was not the grave robbers. They were at a sister's home. The one primary person I am thinking of has never been publicly mentioned. Stacy may not even have been aware of this until the perps returned. She may even have been asleep. Then she realized the jam she was in but it was too late and she could not escape.

 

[chestnut&bypass]

For reasons I won't go into at this time, I am placing the grave robbers back on the list as viable suspects.

So this turned out to be a "deadend"?

 

[Missouri Mule]

So this turned out to be a "deadend"?

Yes. I just can't get around the much more believable and viable theories.

I know many believe they were somehow involved. But I am personally not going to consider them any longer.

I have reread several hundred posts by one and his wife and the total posts on the other site are in the neighborhood of 54,000 posts. I'm just not believing they were involved. If Clay's sister was in her apartment and viewed Clay and Recla during the hours the abductions took place they had no opportunity to be involved. The third one was in Illinois.

I don't like the "Grand Jury 3" either. Two were subsequently in jail and the third one several hundred miles away.

My source made it abundantly clear, many, many times that the perp was known. And he and his partner saw him on his job in person and it wasn't that far.

I could name who I believe did this but won't. I will say, however, that I believe he has posted here. Nothing points away from him and so many things point at him. But how he would eventually come to trial may depend on his confessing to the crimes.

I'm going to leave it there. Nothing else to add, really.

 

[barefootpoet]

He said (many times) that the perp was known. Left no doubt whatever. He also said a second one was "under control." The only meaning of that would be if the second perp was either dead or he was in prison. We know that Cox, SG and RW, were in prison. That is unquestioned. We do know the other is or was on the street. His last known location was several hundred miles from Springfield.

I've mentioned this before that in the unfinished "Vanished" documentary clip Ms McCall emphatically mentions two people she would want "to confront". One who's in "prison" and the other "on the street". I would be safe to add that she has about as good inside information as any in Springfield LE.

 

[Missouri Mule]

I've mentioned this before that in the unfinished "Vanished" documentary clip Ms McCall emphatically mentions two people she would want "to confront". One who's in "prison" and the other "on the street". I would be safe to add that she has about as good inside information as any in Springfield LE.

The one in Texas, Cox, is the most likely one she would want to talk to who is on the inside.

From what I have been able to glean I doubt she actually has good information on the one on the street. I could be wrong. While he may be an obvious suspect, I just really don't believe he did it. But I could be wrong.

 

[flute4peace]

What does it mean "saw him on his job in person" and "it wasn't that far"? Did this person work near the home?

Sent from my SCH-I435L using Tapatalk

 

[chestnut&bypass]

I'm going to leave it there. Nothing else to add, really.

Thank you for all that you've shared today....it's good to see some activity again after a quiet week on the forum.

 

[Ozoner]

Yes. I just can't get around the much more believable and viable theories.

I know many believe they were somehow involved. But I am personally not going to consider them any longer.

I have reread several hundred posts by one and his wife and the total posts on the other site are in the neighborhood of 54,000 posts. I'm just not believing they were involved. If Clay's sister was in her apartment and viewed Clay and Recla during the hours the abductions took place they had no opportunity to be involved. The third one was in Illinois.

I don't like the "Grand Jury 3" either. Two were subsequently in jail and the third one several hundred miles away.

My source made it abundantly clear, many, many times that the perp was known. And he and his partner saw him on his job in person and it wasn't that far.

I could name who I believe did this but won't. I will say, however, that I believe he has posted here. Nothing points away from him and so many things point at him. But how he would eventually come to trial may depend on his confessing to the crimes.

I'm going to leave it there. Nothing else to add, really.

This source of yours has presented a plausible theory, but we have yet to see any real evidence. No matter how firmly your source believes his theory, he may be incorrect.

As for Clay and Recla, I'm not willing to take someone's stripper sister's word for an alibi. I'd also want to see proof that the one who was in Illinois, Riedel, didn't have a big enough window to commit the crime. Perps have been known to travel out of the area in order to set up an alibi, only to return surreptitiously to commit a homicide.

 

[Ibiz]

Don't stop, you guys are cooking!

 

[Florentia]

Sorry, but I cannot get a clear picture in my mind: Stacy was asleep and the other two women were not? How was it that Suzie and Sherrill ended up in the garden? Did they open the front door to the perpetrators? It does not make any sense to me, specially the part of Stacy not being aware and the perps returning for her. Would you be so kind so as to explain the suggested events? Thanks in advance.

 

[Missouri Mule]

What does it mean "saw him on his job in person" and "it wasn't that far"? Did this person work near the home?

Sent from my SCH-I435L using Tapatalk

What it means is that he knew the name of the perp from a highly respected organization that worked the case. He followed this individual for 10 years. He and his own friend traveled to his job and saw him working at his job. He said it was "far" but "not that far."

I take it to mean it would be a one day trip to and from the job location. It could have not been two of the "GJ3" people because they were in prison. The remaining one on the street was a full day's drive from Springfield. That would have required an overnight's stay just to get to that point.

One of the GJ3 was released this past January. That leaves one in prison and he could be out by 2023. He was the convicted rapist. He is the one who called my home and we spoke for about 10 minutes. I have two solid sources which state emphatically that he could not have committed the crime. I believe them.

With Cox, I wouldn't put anything past him.

On the crypt vandals, I have looked at them every which way but loose and can't see the evidence they were involved nor had sufficient motive.

As to Bartt, who kidnaps his own mother and sister and for what purpose?

I believe I know who did this crime. And I'm still working on it even today. If I could eliminate him I would. I can't and everytime I take another serious look at him he seems to further cement his probable involvement.

If none of these suspects prove out, then I don't see how we can go anywhere but corruption on the police department. But going back to my best and most consistant, and informed source, he said the department was the first to be eliminated. We know they weren't taken by space aliens nor that they were "raptured."

The socially maladjusted lone stalker seems to be the last remaining hope. And I could see Cox in the mix.

 

[Missouri Mule]

Sorry, but I cannot get a clear picture in my mind: Stacy was asleep and the other two women were not? How was it that Suzie and Sherrill ended up in the garden? Did they open the front door to the perpetrators? It does not make any sense to me, specially the part of Stacy not being aware and the perps returning for her. Would you be so kind so as to explain the suggested events? Thanks in advance.

The girls were out partying most of the night. They arrived at the Delmar home at 2:45 AM (approximately).

They took off their make-up and were preparing to go to bed. And we know that Stacy was clad only in her panties from the waist down. We have no idea what Suzie was wearing.

Both Sherrill and Suzie were heavy smokers. Since the smell of cigarette smoke arguably would have been very unpleasant to Stacy, who after all, had migraine headaches, it is altogether plausible both of them went outside to smoke cigarettes and leave Stacy to go to sleep and then return inside to go to bed after smoking the cigarettes.

If the lone stalker and with possibly a friend came to the house and they were outside, as seems increasingly plausible, a dispute of some kind arose. They may have been talked to get into the vehicle to talk things over and get calmed down and the visitor(s) were not seen has threatening. And for whatever reason, things went south. They left and realized that there was a third person in the house being there were three cars in the driveway and/or carport. They came back to get Stacy at which time she resisted and was dragged out of the house.

Because of the way the doors swung in opposite directions, it almost certainly took two individuals to get her out of the house. At some point the globe was broken on the porch.

We can eliminate robbery as a motive because of the money left in Sherrrill's purse. No one really knows how the purses came to be lined up on the steps to Suzie's step-down bedroom (a converted garage.) They could have been placed there by one of the 18 or so visitors to the home looking for clues.

The bottom line is that we are running out of suspects.