Rebecca Zahau Wrongful death trial begins. Trial coverage and discussion #3

[stmarysmead]

My impressions over the last few years following this case is that Rebecca had already distanced herself from JS. She was ready to move on and get back to living a happy productive life. She showed indications, not of being distressed, but more of being "fed up" with some family members. She apparently showed a lot of patience and calm in dealing with the drama withing JS's family life. She dealt with their family stress in healthy ways - exercise, journaling, sharing with family. She had her coping mechanisms down pat. JMO, she was being strong, tolerating the family's mess until it was time for her to move on.

It's possible to remain detached from someone else's family drama and JMO, that's what she was doing with Jonah & his kids, ex wives, etc. Max's accident (remember, she never lived long enough to know he would pass) was a very sad time for her, but not enough to cause suicide. Had she not been murdered, I think her relationship would have ended soon after his death. She probably wouldn't have wanted to stick around to deal with more family dysfunction, anger, accusations, etc.

I'm agreeing with a theory someone recently posted, one I considered very early on: Adam knew JS and RZ were splitting up. He was angry over Max's death, unfairly blaming her. He was sexually attracted to her and thought it would now be ok to proposition her. When she refused, he attacked her. She struggled and he became angry. Because of his anger, the situation escalated and she was killed. Anyone who follows WS has read of similar scenarios playing out many, many times between rapists and their victims. Rape isn't as much about sexual gratification as it is about expressing anger and exerting power over another.

“I find myself not being able to sleep for the first time in my entire life… now when I close my eyes my mind begins to race… thinking and brewing over many situations and trying to come up with a solution of some sort,” one of the messages read. “… if I am not thinking, I am crying.”

Emphasis on “for the FIRST time in my life.”

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/courts/sd-me-zahau-phone-messages-20180315-story.html

 

[Betty P]

I don't believe it was a tough decision for Mr. Webb because a jury must base its decision on the evidence it sees and hears in the courtroom only, not on something or someone they don't see or hear.

That's similar to experts who testify about autopsies and suicide risks of a person they, too, had never seen or heard from. Never saw the autopsy, never talked to RZ. Those expert opinions were based on very little.

 

[Betty P]

“I find myself not being able to sleep for the first time in my entire life… now when I close my eyes my mind begins to race… thinking and brewing over many situations and trying to come up with a solution of some sort,” one of the messages read. “… if I am not thinking, I am crying.”

Emphasis on “for the FIRST time in my life.”

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/courts/sd-me-zahau-phone-messages-20180315-story.html

All the physical evidence points to sexual assault followed with murder by manual strangulation and, later hanging in a staged suicide.

RZ was struck in the head, possibly knocked unconscious, taped, then bound hand and foot, then hog tied.

She had a gag placed in her mouth and throat.

She was sexually assaulted with the handle of a knife.

She had a large bruise on her lower back, similar to someone placing their knee there to hold her immobile while lying face down.

Her autopsy revealed many anomalies that would have been impossible in suicide, including two separate strangulation marks, one from hanging, one from manual strangulation

The room where she was killed and evidence at the scene had been wiped clean to remove fingerprints and DNA

There is no physical evidence to support suicide.

 

[Gilgamesh]

Sure would explain a lot like none if his DNA on her! And no mention of the stench of her dead body while trying to give her CPR. And the length of the rope from bannister railing indicating she would have been 20” from the ground cinches it for me. Looks like someone miscalculated when they did their staging. IMO

And don’t forget, the bed didn’t move very far even though she supposedly flung herself over the balcony ( without disturbing the dust)

 

[stmarysmead]

All the physical evidence points to sexual assault followed with murder by manual strangulation and, later hanging in a staged suicide.

RZ was struck in the head, possibly knocked unconscious, taped, then bound hand and foot, then hog tied.

She had a gag placed in her mouth and throat.

She was sexually assaulted with the handle of a knife.

She had a large bruise on her lower back, similar to someone placing their knee there to hold her immobile while lying face down.

Her autopsy revealed many anomalies that would have been impossible in suicide, including two separate strangulation marks, one from hanging, one from manual strangulation

The room where she was killed and evidence at the scene had been wiped clean to remove fingerprints and DNA

There is no physical evidence to support suicide.

The authorities who actually investigated the case disagree. What you cite is the plaintiffs case, with opinions from plaintiffs hired experts. I have a different opinion...just that...an opinion.

There is no video of what happened in that room. There are only interpretations of the available evidence.

 

[Betty P]

The authorities who actually investigated the case disagree. What you cite is the plaintiffs case, with opinions from plaintiffs hired experts. I have a different opinion...just that...an opinion.

There is no video of what happened in that room. There are only interpretations of the available evidence.

There is physical evidence. Physics and biology don't lie. We will always disagree on this and that's fine.

 

[Verboten]

Additionally, When JS was asked to show the court how Rebecca would typically tie up the boat, there was no knots used. Which Greer pointed out. JS responded that there wasn’t any knot and that this is how everyone in the world tie up boats. Didn’t he also say that he can’t say if he ever saw Rebecca tie any knots?

To answer your question, is was in JS deposition (which Greer read back to the court), where he said the only thing he ever saw Rebecca tie was her shoelaces. This was after stating about five times how much dexterity she had in her hands (an effort to implicate here even though he'd never seen her tie anything). Now, he is testifying that she used to tie down his boat -- which is a contradiction from his earlier testimony -- but as you note, when demonstrating what that looked like, there were ZERO knots involved. As to the specific knots tied to bind Rebecca, Greer walked him through each photo at the crime scene and Jonah had to admit he had never seen her tie any of those: Have you ever seen her tie a knot like this one? No. How about like this? No.

 

[stmarysmead]

There is physical evidence. Physics and biology don't lie. We will always disagree on this and that's fine.

The problem for me in all trials is that one can find “experts” on both sides that will interpret physical evidence to suit a theory of the case. It’s supposed to be science and biology but in way too many trials...there’s two experts looking at the same science and biology and making opposite conclusions.

I respect your point of view. For the moment, the only opinions that will matter are on that jury. But I qualify with...for the moment...because I believe this verdict...no matter how it comes out...will be appealed.

I doubt anything ends here.

 

[Verboten]

Thanks for sharing. Poor Mary, she must be exhausted by now, emotionally and otherwise. She's an incredibly strong person to have dealt with so much since the death of Rebecca. I'm going to make another donation today.

She makes very good points about psychologist's testimony. By all accounts Rebecca was a very active, fit and healthy person. No alcohol or drug use. Those things all have a positive impact in helping people deal with stress in their lives and should have been considered in his evaluation. That wasn't the case, though, so I doubt this testimony will have much influence over jurors. After all the evidence presented so far to indicate murder, they're probably not swayed by this.

Greer is doing a fantastic job, as usual. I really think they will prevail.

Additionally, the point that is not made often enough, imo, is that the psychologist who was there directly after Max's fall and spent several hours with Rebecca saw nothing to indicate she was suicidal, and the person who actually spoke with her within hours of this happening, saw evidence that she was doing OK and making detailed plans for the following day. RZ also sent a message to another sister indicating a hopefulness and planning to send updates on Max's condition. These are the people who can speak directly to Rebecca's state of mind at the time.

 

[Pi2016]

On the subject of Max’s accident not being more thoroughly investigated, it is my belief that after Rebecca was murdered a further investigation into Max would have only too clearly provided a motive for Rebecca’s murder so it was not pursued by law enforcement at the behest of the murdering parties influence. After all, her demise had been arranged and that was good enough and then counter productive to press forward on the death of Max.

Same reasoning for having her bake under the sun under prying eyes as to them she deserved that and more. The simplicity of it all is so obvious but hasn’t been that clear due to the many games played by the murdering parties (reputation management and publicists) and their co-conspirators (maybe too strong a word) which they proved even today they didn’t have the guts to stand by their pronouncement of suicide.

All my opinion of course.

I agree.

 

[nanwv]

Adam is vilified for maturbating to *advertiser censored*...but RZ probably watched *advertiser censored* the night before he arrived...ALSO after the accident...on her computer.

“confirmed that more than a dozen searches of sexual content – using terms like "raped, sexy Asian girls, and bondage anime" – were accessed on a computer the day before Zahau's death.”

With all the chaos in her life at this time, your opinion that RZ watched this crap is comical. Didn't appear to hinder AS tho. He had quite the active 24 hours, even in his sleep.

 

[stmarysmead]

Adam is vilified for maturbating to *advertiser censored*...but RZ probably watched *advertiser censored* the night before he arrived...ALSO after the accident...on her computer.

“confirmed that more than a dozen searches of sexual content – using terms like "raped, sexy Asian girls, and bondage anime" – were accessed on a computer the day before Zahau's death.”

With all the chaos in her life at this time, your opinion that RZ watched this crap is comical. Didn't appear to hinder AS tho. He had quite the active 24 hours, even in his sleep.

Who else was in the house using her computer? JS was at a motel. Her sister had left. AS had t arrived. She was having trouble sleeping.

I just don’t think we should shame AS if at any point in time, RZ also watched *advertiser censored* on her computer. Matter of fairness.

 

[Tortoise]

And don’t forget, the bed didn’t move very far even though she supposedly flung herself over the balcony ( without disturbing the dust)

I don't believe Rebecca ever went over the railing. Her neck would have been broken with the drop of her weight IMO, and she would have had bruising and scrapes on her ribcage area, as well as dirt from the railing on her front.

It seems to me the rope was likely fixed to the bed leg, the other end made into a noose and tossed over the railing, and she was most likely carried to the noose and had her head inserted through the loop.

 

[Tortoise]

Who else was in the house using her computer? JS was at a motel. Her sister had left. AS had t arrived. She was having trouble sleeping.

I just don’t think we should shame AS if at any point in time, RZ also watched *advertiser censored* on her computer. Matter of fairness.

Do you think it likely that Rebecca would be looking at raped Asian girls?

Now I really have heard it all.

 

[Pi2016]

I’m guessing that whatever the jury decides, there will be appeals. This will not be “over.” Any legal reason to think that won’t be the case?

I watched AS’s testim9ny again, and my impression (admittedly from afar) was very different from the consensus here. He reminds me of a man I know with high functioning Asperger’s syndrome. This man is highly intelligent but has poorly formed social skills. A job on a tugboat would seem to fit someone who struggles with that disorder. And AS made a success, becoming Captain, in the life he chose.

I felt sorry for him as he testified. I know Mr Greer was doing his job for his clients, but AS’s social discomfort made it seem like bullying. Obviously, those in the courtroom believe the jury saw him as a liar and crafty manipulator. But, I certainly did not.

He seems like the most vulnerable of the Shacknai set, seized upon for that reason. Anyone could have walked through the open doors that night into the mansion. Even in the best murder scenario, since there’s no dna or fingerprints, it could be anybody doing all the nefarious things suggested here.

Adam is vilified for maturbating to *advertiser censored*...but RZ probably watched *advertiser censored* the night before he arrived...ALSO after the accident...on her computer. The inconsistencies in the reactions here are discouraging.

I agree with your assessment of Adam.

 

[Jade]

Respectfully snipped>>>

I watched AS’s testim9ny again, and my impression (admittedly from afar) was very different from the consensus here. He reminds me of a man I know with high functioning Asperger’s syndrome. This man is highly intelligent but has poorly formed social skills. A job on a tugboat would seem to fit someone who struggles with that disorder. And AS made a success, becoming Captain, in the life he chose.

I felt sorry for him as he testified. I know Mr Greer was doing his job for his clients, but AS’s social discomfort made it seem like bullying. Obviously, those in the courtroom believe the jury saw him as a liar and crafty manipulator. But, I certainly did not.

He seems like the most vulnerable of the Shacknai set, seized upon for that reason. <<<<snip for focus>>>>

Adam is vilified for maturbating to *advertiser censored*...but RZ probably watched *advertiser censored* the night before he arrived...ALSO after the accident...on her computer. The inconsistencies in the reactions here are discouraging.

BBM

In fact just the opposite personality is needed as a Captain.

I have posted plenty of links to the profession. Here is a couple more:

We gathered 16 traits and surveyed other Ship and Boat Captains on how important are these 16 traits in their day to day job and career.

Here are the results to guide you to make a decision if Ship and Boat Captains is the right career fit for you.

4. Leadership: 4.64 out of 5
Job requires a willingness to lead, take charge, and offer opinions and direction.

5. Cooperation: 4.13 out of 5
Job requires being pleasant with others on the job and displaying a good-natured, cooperative attitude.

6. Concern for Others: 3.99 out of 5
Job requires being sensitive to others’ needs and feelings and being understanding and helpful on the job.

7. Social Orientation: 3.71 out of 5
Job requires preferring to work with others rather than alone, and being personally connected with others on the job.

8. Self Control: 4.36 out of 5
Job requires maintaining composure, keeping emotions in check, controlling anger, and avoiding aggressive behavior, even in very difficult situations.

9. Stress Tolerance: 4.38 out of 5
Job requires accepting criticism and dealing calmly and effectively with high stress situations.

http://www.owlguru.com/work-style/characteristics-of-good-ship-and-boat-captains/

A Winning Personality
This is probably the most important aspect of a great captain.

http://www.dockwalk.com/Essentials/HotTopics.aspx?id=6054

What skills are required for Ship and Boat Captains?

Active Listening - Giving full attention to what other people are saying, taking time to understand the points being made, asking questions as appropriate, and not interrupting at inappropriate times.

Speaking - Talking to others to convey information effectively.

Social Perceptiveness - Being aware of others' reactions and understanding why they react as they do.

Concern for Others - Job requires being sensitive to others' needs and feelings and being understanding and helpful on the job.

https://www.mymajors.com/career/ship-captain/skills/

Work on tugs and barges are sought after well paying jobs in the Mississippi River region.

As for the computer *advertiser censored* we don’t have enough information to make a judgment, imo.

For all we know it was accessed remotely.

Adam said it was Rebecca who was in contact with him about coming to Coronado. Did she pay for the ticket online as well?

If so did she share access to supply Adam a boarding pass?




imo

 

[stmarysmead]

Do you think it likely that Rebecca would be looking at raped Asian girls?

Now I really have heard it all.

My understanding of bondage is that it is can be consensual. Consenting adults may practice this, so it&#8217;s not &#8220;rape.&#8221;

RZ did not move into JS home from the convent. She was an adult woman who had been involved in numerous sexual relationships...some of which were adulterous. That just the fact of how she lived her life. She may have slept with numerous men because she was in an unhappy marriage or who knows why.

I don&#8217;t judge RZ or AS for watching *advertiser censored*. Not relevant to any aspect of the case IMO.

 

[Gilgamesh]

I don't believe Rebecca ever went over the railing. Her neck would have been broken with the drop of her weight IMO, and she would have had bruising and scrapes on her ribcage area, as well as dirt from the railing on her front.

It seems to me the rope was likely fixed to the bed leg, the other end made into a noose and tossed over the railing, and she was most likely carried to the noose and had her head inserted through the loop.

I totally agree. I never thought RZ went over the balcony.

 

[Pi2016]

Who else was in the house using her computer? JS was at a motel. Her sister had left. AS had t arrived. She was having trouble sleeping.

I just don&#8217;t think we should shame AS if at any point in time, RZ also watched *advertiser censored* on her computer. Matter of fairness.

Can you give me the source for the info that Jonah stayed at a hotel the night before AS arrived?

 

[justice be served]

I’m guessing that whatever the jury decides, there will be appeals. This will not be “over.” Any legal reason to think that won’t be the case?

I watched AS’s testim9ny again, and my impression (admittedly from afar) was very different from the consensus here. He reminds me of a man I know with high functioning Asperger’s syndrome. This man is highly intelligent but has poorly formed social skills. A job on a tugboat would seem to fit someone who struggles with that disorder. And AS made a success, becoming Captain, in the life he chose.

I felt sorry for him as he testified. I know Mr Greer was doing his job for his clients, but AS’s social discomfort made it seem like bullying. Obviously, those in the courtroom believe the jury saw him as a liar and crafty manipulator. But, I certainly did not.

He seems like the most vulnerable of the Shacknai set, seized upon for that reason. Anyone could have walked through the open doors that night into the mansion. Even in the best murder scenario, since there’s no dna or fingerprints, it could be anybody doing all the nefarious things suggested here.

Adam is vilified for maturbating to *advertiser censored*...but RZ probably watched *advertiser censored* the night before he arrived...ALSO after the accident...on her computer. The inconsistencies in the reactions here are discouraging.

The Zahaus have no monies for appeals. As everyone now knows, they don’t even have the money for this trial thus thegofund site.

Maybe a billionaire will step up to the plate and fund it. Oops I have the defendant mixed up with the plaintiff with that statement. My bad.