CA CA - Hannah, 16, Devonte, 15, & Sierra Hart, 12, Mendocino County, 26 March 2018 #1

Status
Not open for further replies.
Re: identifying the bodies.

If one of the women had been carrying a wallet with ID, on her person, authorities could have used that to assume the body’s identity.

Maybe one of them had a fanny pack or money belt, vest, etc.
 
That video is more like a slick production rather than spontaneous moments captured during a family outing. (5:30 mark it looks like the boy is waiting for the signal to smell the tulips.) The 4:47-50 mark I noticed what appears to be bruising on the girl's upper left shoulder blade and base of her neck. Apologies for not knowing the children's names, I'm only just getting familiar with the background of this very tragic story.

All of it looked completely staged to me, fake smiles and awkwardness all around. I’m still flummoxed that it was taken a year or so ago and they look so young. Whatever abuses happened to them when they were very young, before they were adopted could possibly have caused a few of them to be short in stature but they should still have been developing as most were well into their teens. I know all kids are built differently but as with the Turpins, how in the world did no one notice (besides the neighbors thinking the 16 year old was around 7) that these teens looked like little kids and that could indicate something wrong??


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
At work and going into a conference. Can someone tell me if all of the bodies (the entire family) were recovered?

Bodies of 2 adults and 3 children recovered, other 3 children are missing.
 
more on the adoption-

2006- Markis, Abrigail, Hannah- from Colorado County, Tx.

2009- Devonte, Jeremiah, Sierra- from Harris Co., Tx. (Houston)

Only 1 follow-up since children were adopted.

http://www.oregonlive.com/today/index.ssf/2018/03/for_devonte_and_his_siblings_p.html

It also says in that article Sarah changed her last name to Hart in May of '05. If Gray's video is right that one of them is also 48, not 38ish as originally reported, then this woman seems to have been trying to be something she is not for a long time. Or is Hart Jen's given last name? (eta age discrepancy might be hogwash & yes Sarah probably changed her last name to Jen's in '05)

I'm still waiting for more info about the relationship between the 6 kids. One article I linked before said late this past Thursday they learned all 6 were biologically related. But I haven't seen that elsewhere.

I was struck by the 4 kids being featured in the bday video. Apples and smiles & blowing kisses. Two different shots of young men leaving the bathroom? The kiss to Sarah(?) from AH. Long shots of them smiling & basking in sunshine, even when the other mom is brushing her teeth. Come on....no one is happy all the time! Where are the cute grumpy faces upon waking? Where is the surprise & annoyance from a teen/preteen exiting the toilet & finding Mom with a camera in your face? Why are there so few shots of those two kids? They just don't fit the asthetic? Not exotic enough? Not young enough? They just don't prefer the limelight and their moms respect that (doubt it)?

I do wonder how many answers will come out or if this will all remain a tragic mystery.
 
As soon as I read about this horrific event, on 3/29, I knew that the launch over the cliff was intentional. Now it is confirmed by LE and proves that these 2 women murdered all the kids and killed themselves too.

If you want to kill yourself or do a murder-suicide, leave the kids out of it for the love of Pete!
 
I always feel really weird when white people adopt several kids from a specific race, like, these two only adopted black kids. Why is that? And someone might be thinking "well, why not?", and that is absolutely valid too. There is NOTHING wrong about only adopting black children. I'm not saying that, since they are white, they should exclusively adopt white children. I'm not saying that black children are unwhorthy of being adopted. What I'm saying is that I always feel weird when white people go above and beyond just to adopt black kids, or hispanic kids, or asian kids, and so on. It doesn't feel right to me, it always seems like they're making it about them and about the image of themselves that they want to be perceived by everyone else. And I'm aware that white people are not the only ones that do this. I'm sorry if this is confusing or if this doesn't seem relevant to this case.

To my knowledge (correct me if I'm wrong please) there are more prospective foster and adoptive parents who are white than black, and for children it's the other way around, and then add in mixed race kids).

I agree with you that I don't see anything wrong with adopting children of a different skin color, I just want them to have good families and good parenting.

And these kids were adopted in sibling groups, much harder to place, and apparently coming from backgrounds with abuse and that had led to the children displaying problems, so again they're going to be harder to place in adoptive families.

If someone/a couple are simply looking beyond color to adopt children who need a good home, I don't have anything negative to say about that.

But I do have a bit question mark for these women on how these things, and especially taking in two sibling groups with all six being fairly close in age to each other, how it might have had a large part in their desire to appear super-altruistic, maybe wanting to create a narrative that the whole world is racist *except for us!*

The kids have been in this family for a long time, is it 9 years and 14 years? But there seems to be a mixed narrative of how the kids came from terrible backgrounds that had given the kids issues (no fault of the children) and then these two parents have erased all the damage. Then on the other hand it feels like constant reminders of where the children have come from and that some of it is being used to say that the children, who on the one hand are 'cured' and 'perfectly behaved' are still displaying damage from the early childhood stage. I feel like there's a disparity in how the kids are two things at once and all the negative is attributed to their pre-adoption lives, while all the positive is attributed to their post-adoption lives.

The story about the encounter in the store, combined with neighbors saying they didn't see the kids out in the garden playing games, people saying there's a lack of child stuff like balls and things in the garden. Was it really the six kids who didn't want to play sporty games or ball games or was it the parents telling the kids they didn't want to do those sorts of activities? You don't have to want to grow up to be a sports star to kick or throw a ball around the garden and spend time outdoors playing games? feel like these women have sucked the life out of these children and tried to imprint the children with their own image? None of this has anything to do with race, it has to do with children...and out of six kids, sure there might be a bookworm or two in there, but even bookworm kids can go out and run around and play ball games and work off excess physical energy? And surely that's especially true in a household without TV where video games and electronics are discouraged?

I'm not keen on when parents want children to be image that their parents want them to be instead of growing up to be themselves with their own interests. But these two are apparently combining this with extreme abuse. How much are they using abuse to get the desired outcome and to drain these kids of their own individual development in six different ways?
 
It also says in that article Sarah changed her last name to Hart in May of '05. If Gray's video is right that Sarah is also 48, not 38ish as originally reported, then this woman seems to have been trying to be something she is not for a long time. Or is Hart Jen's given last name?

I'm still waiting for more info about the relationship between the 6 kids. One article I linked before said late this past Thursday they learned all 6 were biologically related. But I haven't seen that elsewhere.

I was struck by the 4 kids being featured in the bday video. Apples and smiles & blowing kisses. Two different shots of young men leaving the bathroom? The kiss to Jen from AH. Long shots of them smiling & basking in sunshine, even when Sarah is brushing her teeth. Come on....no one is happy all the time! Where are the cute grumpy faces upon waking? Where is the surprise & annoyance from a teen/preteen exiting the toilet & finding Mom with a camera in your face? Why are there so few shots of those two kids? They just don't fit the asthetic? Not exotic enough? Not young enough? They just don't prefer the limelight and their moms respect that (doubt it)?

I do wonder how many answers will come out or if this will all remain a tragic mystery.

Sarah - DOB- 4/8/79- would have been 38 going on 39 on 4/8/18.
 
It also says in that article Sarah changed her last name to Hart in May of '05. If Gray's video is right that Sarah is also 48, not 38ish as originally reported, then this woman seems to have been trying to be something she is not for a long time. Or is Hart Jen's given last name?

I'm still waiting for more info about the relationship between the 6 kids. One article I linked before said late this past Thursday they learned all 6 were biologically related. But I haven't seen that elsewhere.

I was struck by the 4 kids being featured in the bday video. Apples and smiles & blowing kisses. Two different shots of young men leaving the bathroom? The kiss to Jen from AH. Long shots of them smiling & basking in sunshine, even when Sarah is brushing her teeth. Come on....no one is happy all the time! Where are the cute grumpy faces upon waking? Where is the surprise & annoyance from a teen/preteen exiting the toilet & finding Mom with a camera in your face? Why are there so few shots of those two kids? They just don't fit the asthetic? Not exotic enough? Not young enough? They just don't prefer the limelight and their moms respect that (doubt it)?

I do wonder how many answers will come out or if this will all remain a tragic mystery.

I didn’t see the gray video, and don’t have time to watch it right now, but what makes him think Sarah is really 48? The court documents show her birth year as 1979. I think Hart is Jennifer’s maiden name. Sarah may have changed her name before they got married bc maybe they didn’t expect to ever be able to get married? Obviously I’m speculating.
 
This photo of the Hart family from sarahs bday video is around a year old if ages are correct she was turning 37 in the video she was 38 when they crashed. I noticed in the bday video 2 kids were left out of any alone shots. Markis and the little girl I'm assuming is Hannah. The one who they said her teeth were missing and she didn't want them fixed. Clearly the child did want her teeth fix when she can't even smile properly in photos maybe they were afraid of the truth of how she lost her teeth coming out. Also I wanted to point out these kids even in the bday video looked extremely sick and skinny and they didn't look like teenagers at all. The oldest I'd say they look is 12 and if this was from just last year the oldest would be 18 the other kids would be 15 and 13 minus the youngest who would be 11.
d1899e60f4e93997ad010d21f38669ee.jpg


Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk
 
Foster kids often have issues with food..hoarding food, stealing it, eating nonstop. I work with children and work with a 14 year old girl who will eat until she busts at school. She's been known to raid lockers and steal lunches from other kids, she'll steal whatever she can find. She gains huge amounts of weight then seems to drop it..then repeats. She'd lie to us and say that her family doesn't feed her, but she was trying to get food to hoard. Her parents were pleasant people who had adopted her at age five and she'd had numerous issues since. They had their hands full, and in fact would withhold food from her, junk food that is, at times because they knew she ate way too much throughout the day and had food hid all over the house. They weren't being mean to her, they were trying to help her.

so I do think it's totally possible for kids, even younger ones, from abusive backgrounds, to have food issues and lie to others in order to get food.

that said, it seems like there was way more going on with this family and the kids were trying to reach out for help.
 
As soon as I read about this horrific event, on 3/29, I knew that the launch over the cliff was intentional. Now it is confirmed by LE and proves that these 2 women murdered all the kids and killed themselves too.

If you want to kill yourself or do a murder-suicide, leave the kids out of it for the love of Pete!

Agreed. I think they knew the gig was up when CPS came by, they left quickly afterwards no time to rehearse the fake story kids would tell CPS besides I’m sure at that point they knew the neighbors were on to them and were really mad at the kids for going over there. After all the little girl was badly beaten for only having a penny in her pocket. The cowardly women knew they were going to jail and this was going to go be blown wide open go public and be reported in the news that they were frauds I’m sure they took into consideration the Turpin case in CA and chose suicide in lieu of going to prison.
 
Re: identifying the bodies.

If one of the women had been carrying a wallet with ID, on her person, authorities could have used that to assume the body’s identity.

Maybe one of them had a fanny pack or money belt, vest, etc.

I agree. It looks like they mis-identified the bodies. But that should be easily cleared up with further investigation. But for now they are just saying they haven't identified the driver. Honestly I don't think it makes much difference who was driving. Both women were responsible. IMHO.
 
I have been thinking about this home-schooling thing a lot and it is really bothering me. In order to home school six kids of different ages without electronics, you would need a huge amount of teaching resources and supplies - textbooks, reading material, worksheets, science lab materials, paper, etc... Add to that if any of those kids had learning disabilities, which is very possible if they were really exposed to drugs and alcohol in vitro or as young children as the Hart mothers claim, this would make for an even more challenging situation. Now since they had not registered the kids with either Oregon or WA, this means they would have had absolutely no support from the school districts with educational materials, resources or extra tutoring. My son is home schooled but it is through an interactive video program supported by the district and with the availability of additional resources and supplies, if needed, however, even with that support for just one kid, it is a big commitment. Sure, they reportedly had books to read, construction paper and gardens but what about math and science? Since Jen was the one staying home and "teaching" and she is also the one who appears to have been short-tempered and impatient (judging by what the kids told LE and supported by the worm video), I just cannot realistically imagine her running this very complicated home school. So this makes me feel like these kids were not being prepared in any real way for the outside world. Were they expected to stay with their moms and siblings for the rest of their lives? What was the end game here if it this wasn't supposed to happen?



It sounds like they were in school, until 2010, when AH was 6. The oldest would have been around 11 so they were old enough to miss being in school.

There are many home schooling curriculum packages out there. They could have found one that emphasized the environment. Science probably consisted of what they learned on their outdoor hiking and camping trips.

It is doubtful that all 6 were at grade level. It would require a lot of patience to teach high school level math or self motivated students to learn it. Art consisted mostly of making posters for rallies. They learned enough music to participate in music festivals. PE must have been the hiking they did on their camping trips and dancing around the house, since they were never seen outside playing with a ball.

It was not a practical education that would prepare them for college or jobs. For as much as they liked to document how happy and well the kids were doing, there does not appear to be any pictures of them doing regular old fashioned schoolwork.

Home schooling families that have a large social media presence will usually have some photos of kids, working on interesting projects, in an organized work space.
 
To my knowledge (correct me if I'm wrong please) there are more prospective foster and adoptive parents who are white than black, and for children it's the other way around, and then add in mixed race kids).

I agree with you that I don't see anything wrong with adopting children of a different skin color, I just want them to have good families and good parenting.

And these kids were adopted in sibling groups, much harder to place, and apparently coming from backgrounds with abuse and that had led to the children displaying problems, so again they're going to be harder to place in adoptive families.

If someone/a couple are simply looking beyond color to adopt children who need a good home, I don't have anything negative to say about that.

But I do have a bit question mark for these women on how these things, and especially taking in two sibling groups with all six being fairly close in age to each other, how it might have had a large part in their desire to appear super-altruistic, maybe wanting to create a narrative that the whole world is racist *except for us!*

The kids have been in this family for a long time, is it 9 years and 14 years? But there seems to be a mixed narrative of how the kids came from terrible backgrounds that had given the kids issues (no fault of the children) and then these two parents have erased all the damage. Then on the other hand it feels like constant reminders of where the children have come from and that some of it is being used to say that the children, who on the one hand are 'cured' and 'perfectly behaved' are still displaying damage from the early childhood stage. I feel like there's a disparity in how the kids are two things at once and all the negative is attributed to their pre-adoption lives, while all the positive is attributed to their post-adoption lives.

The story about the encounter in the store, combined with neighbors saying they didn't see the kids out in the garden playing games, people saying there's a lack of child stuff like balls and things in the garden. Was it really the six kids who didn't want to play sporty games or ball games or was it the parents telling the kids they didn't want to do those sorts of activities? You don't have to want to grow up to be a sports star to kick or throw a ball around the garden and spend time outdoors playing games? feel like these women have sucked the life out of these children and tried to imprint the children with their own image? None of this has anything to do with race, it has to do with children...and out of six kids, sure there might be a bookworm or two in there, but even bookworm kids can go out and run around and play ball games and work off excess physical energy? And surely that's especially true in a household without TV where video games and electronics are discouraged?

I'm not keen on when parents want children to be image that their parents want them to be instead of growing up to be themselves with their own interests. But these two are apparently combining this with extreme abuse. How much are they using abuse to get the desired outcome and to drain these kids of their own individual development in six different ways?

I suspect there was a check in the mail monthly for these children.
 
I agree. It looks like they mis-identified the bodies. But that should be easily cleared up with further investigation. But for now they are just saying they haven't identified the driver. Honestly I don't think it makes much difference who was driving. Both women were responsible. IMHO.


How can people seem so “normal” and be so evil!!!
 
Foster kids often have issues with food..hoarding food, stealing it, eating nonstop. I work with children and work with a 14 year old girl who will eat until she busts at school. She's been known to raid lockers and steal lunches from other kids, she'll steal whatever she can find. She gains huge amounts of weight then seems to drop it..then repeats. She'd lie to us and say that her family doesn't feed her, but she was trying to get food to hoard. Her parents were pleasant people who had adopted her at age five and she'd had numerous issues since. They had their hands full, and in fact would withhold food from her, junk food that is, at times because they knew she ate way too much throughout the day and had food hid all over the house. They weren't being mean to her, they were trying to help her.

so I do think it's totally possible for kids, even younger ones, from abusive backgrounds, to have food issues and lie to others in order to get food.

that said, it seems like there was way more going on with this family and the kids were trying to reach out for help.

Thank you for your post. I appreciate it. I agree there was a lot going on with the family.

I fell like we really don’t know enough about the children’s backgrounds, their birth parents, any therapy they may be receiving, etc etc to form a solid theory on what was absolutely happening.

There is a lot of judgement on this thread in general. (NOT directing that at you Webby). I’m kind of surprised so many people are rushing to judgement.

I’ve read conflicting reports about how the parents disciplined. I’m going to keep reading before I form any opinions about what “must have happened”.

I’m not stating opinion one way or the other yet. The one thing I will say is that this is very very tragic. Anytime lives are lost it’s very sad.

Back to reading.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Agreed. I think they knew the gig was up when CPS came by, they left quickly afterwards no time to rehearse the fake story kids would tell CPS besides I’m sure at that point they knew the neighbors were on to them and were really mad at the kids for going over there. After all the little girl was badly beaten for only having a penny in her pocket. The cowardly women knew they were going to jail and this was going to go be blown wide open go public and be reported in the news that they were frauds I’m sure they took into consideration the Turpin case in CA and chose suicide in lieu of going to prison.

I agree with all you said, whiteorchids, let me add, IMO, there may have been more than we know that would have
come out. These children were now older and more aware of right vs. wrong. Parents may have been worried a lot
more incriminating evidence would be exposed. We just don't know, but apparently the parents were concerned
enough to run from CPS.
I would like to know more about the young girl running to neighbor with her blanket wrapped around her and telling them she was being "abused". Did she have pajamas on under the blanket or was she naked? When a child says
they are being abused, what do they mean? Spanked, whipped, raped? and she said the neighbor needed to "protect her". This is all on video and neighbors seem credible.
I suspect the home life for these children was more horrible than has been reported. The parents knew and they also
knew they were cornered and had to flee.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
123
Guests online
4,158
Total visitors
4,281

Forum statistics

Threads
593,672
Messages
17,990,630
Members
229,207
Latest member
M.Lee
Back
Top