Found Deceased TX - Michael Chambers, 70, Hunt County, 10 March 2017 #5

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SavetheQueen said:
It’s my understanding that the only without a doubt item on the receipt was the mascara. If I remember correctly, a random poster came on and said Coricidan HPB.
I would not be allowed to go into detail due to WS TOS, but trust me that it’s not worth going down the rabbit hole with this again. The receipt isn’t relative.


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STQ, I agree with you. I don't believe the receipt is relative.

However, if an item is purchased, it must show up on a receipt, right? How else would anyone ever return an item for refund or exchange otherwise? ( Not meaning this item, but just in general. )

As for my previous belief that the family would have viewed the receipt themselves, I now stand corrected by one of Pmerle00's posts I had missed the significance of earlier.

On 4/12/17 at 11:10 a.m. Post # 206 in the first thread, the VI, Pmerle00 posted this:

"...I know the sheriff took the receipt..."

That says a lot right there. I tend to believe now that he probably took the receipt with him the day MC was reported missing. Which makes it even more likely that none of the family, except BC, ever laid eyes on that receipt themselves.

All the information then about the receipt would have come directly from BC....


JMO
 
JazzTune said:
STQ, I agree with you. I don't believe the receipt is relative.

However, if an item is purchased, it must show up on a receipt, right? How else would anyone ever return an item for refund or exchange otherwise? ( Not meaning this item, but just in general. )

As for my previous belief that the family would have viewed the receipt themselves, I now stand corrected by one of Pmerle00's posts I had missed the significance of earlier.

On 4/12/17 at 11:10 a.m. Post # 206 in the first thread, the VI, Pmerle00 posted this:

"...I know the sheriff took the receipt..."

That says a lot right there. I tend to believe now that he probably took the receipt with him the day MC was reported missing. Which makes it even more likely that none of the family, except BC, ever laid eyes on that receipt themselves.

All the information then about the receipt would have come directly from BC....


JMO
Click to expand...

You’re correct. HCSO took the receipt. From my understanding. Again, information that came from the VI came from BC presumably. The reality could be that the receipt items aren’t a big mystery because they aren’t relative, and aren’t worth mentioning. JMHO.


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SavetheQueen said:
You’re correct. HCSO took the receipt. From my understanding. Again, information that came from the VI came from BC presumably. The reality could be that the receipt items aren’t a big mystery because they aren’t relative, and aren’t worth mentioning. JMHO.


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And also, if I remember correctly, the sheriff or crime scene techs would have taken the receipt to be processed for prints. And I believe they did.

What I have wondered a lot about is what MC would have done from 10:30am to 2:30 pm. Just for the sake of my thought process, I'm going to assume that MC arrived home around 10:30.

He would have entered the house, took the package and items and put them away. I believe March has a high pollen count so the purchase of the Coriciden doesn't seem strange.

I wonder if he had some lunch, a snack or a glass of water. Anything he may have left in the kitchen sink or anything that was rearranged in the refrigerator.

I wonder if he finished off any odd repairs that needed tending to.

Maybe he went out to his garage and puttered around a bit. If there was a bike, chances are the tires needed air.
Maybe the chain needed oiling. I know there were blood drops but could it have been mixed with oil? Were any of these things (air compressor, or oil can) left out of place or rearranged differently?

I have another important point I'd like considered but it may be outside of TOS rules. But it might help in establishing MC's state of mind.

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Razz said:
And also, if I remember correctly, the sheriff or crime scene techs would have taken the receipt to be processed for prints. And I believe they did.

What I have wondered a lot about is what MC would have done from 10:30am to 2:30 pm. Just for the sake of my thought process, I'm going to assume that MC arrived home around 10:30.

He would have entered the house, took the package and items and put them away. I believe March has a high pollen count so the purchase of the Coriciden doesn't seem strange.

I wonder if he had some lunch, a snack or a glass of water. Anything he may have left in the kitchen sink or anything that was rearranged in the refrigerator.

I wonder if he finished off any odd repairs that needed tending to.

Maybe he went out to his garage and puttered around a bit. If there was a bike, chances are the tires needed air.
Maybe the chain needed oiling. I know there were blood drops but could it have been mixed with oil? Were any of these things (air compressor, or oil can) left out of place or rearranged differently?

I have another important point I'd like considered but it may be outside of TOS rules. But it might help in establishing MC's state of mind.

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Click to expand...

Yes, what DID he do? I have some of your same questions.

So what are you thinking?


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SavetheQueen said:
Yes, what DID he do? I have some of your same questions.

So what are you thinking?


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I don't think you'll be happy with what I'm thinking....suicide.

BUT....I do wonder about BC's initial reaction (and RM's theory at the PC)
that MC had been harmed and possibly left the home to protect BC.

I think it seems safe to assume that her initial reaction did not pan out. But why was that her reaction? Had there been unfortunate conversations that may have led MC to become even more upset. I'll agree MC was Superman but his heart wasn't made of steel. [emoji17]

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Razz said:
I don't think you'll be happy with what I'm thinking....suicide.

BUT....I do wonder about BC's initial reaction (and RM's theory at the PC)
that MC had been harmed and possibly left the home to protect BC.

I think it seems safe to assume that her initial reaction did not pan out. But why was that her reaction? Had there been unfortunate conversations that may have led MC to become even more upset. I'll agree MC was Superman but his heart wasn't made of steel. [emoji17]

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Click to expand...

No, you have valid points. I have often wondered if he did harm himself, leave a note, and BC led someone to his body, and it was removed elsewhere. And her money grubbing behaviors are her taking advantage of the situation.

While I only rate suicide as my last theory on whatever happened, I do think BC has full knowledge of the situation. I think whatever it was/is, she knows.


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SavetheQueen said:
Thank you.

If you know how to search, do you think you can look up this person and the posts?


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Not sure if my way will be helpful to you or not, but this is the way I search for a User Name as you mentioned. One who I'm not sure where to locate their posts in a thread.

At the top of the WS page, 5th over, reading from the left is the heading, 'Community.'

I click on it which brings up a drop down menu that shows 'Member List' at the bottom.

I click on that which brings up the 'Filter Results' by letter of the alphabet.

I then click on the first alphabetical letter of the person's User Name, which then brings up the pages of all people with just that first initial.

Those are also in alphabetical order, so it's a process to find the correct page. Some of the letters have many, many pages.

When I find the correct User Name, it shows up on the left of the page with three headings across the top listed with each person's information.

The headings across the top are: Join Date, Posts, and Last Visit

So mine would be

JazzTune, 02-23-2017, 694, Today 01:31 p.m.


Once you have identified the correct User Name then you can click on it of course to see their posts, just as you would if you had clicked on that User Name in the thread itself.

I hope this is helpful. If you already knew all of this though, and was meaning something else entirely, please disregard...


JMO
 
Razz said:
And also, if I remember correctly, the sheriff or crime scene techs would have taken the receipt to be processed for prints. And I believe they did.

What I have wondered a lot about is what MC would have done from 10:30am to 2:30 pm. Just for the sake of my thought process, I'm going to assume that MC arrived home around 10:30.

He would have entered the house, took the package and items and put them away. I believe March has a high pollen count so the purchase of the Coriciden doesn't seem strange.

I wonder if he had some lunch, a snack or a glass of water. Anything he may have left in the kitchen sink or anything that was rearranged in the refrigerator.

I wonder if he finished off any odd repairs that needed tending to.

Maybe he went out to his garage and puttered around a bit. If there was a bike, chances are the tires needed air.
Maybe the chain needed oiling. I know there were blood drops but could it have been mixed with oil? Were any of these things (air compressor, or oil can) left out of place or rearranged differently?

I have another important point I'd like considered but it may be outside of TOS rules. But it might help in establishing MC's state of mind.

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Click to expand...

( RBBM )


https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/mis...-retired-firefighter-michael-chambers-n736021

Oh Razz, I don't want to be one of those nit-picky persons, but I guess I am. ;)

According to the link above, it states:

"...Around 11:00 a.m. security video captured Michael Chambers walking out of the Walmart in town..."

I don't know how long it would have taken him to drive home from there, but I believe it was reported to be a fair distance from his home. Probably wouldn't have been getting home before 11:30 a.m. in my opinion.

I know that extra hour wouldn't make that much difference in your scenario, but just saying...

Also, just saying too, if it was suicide, ( which I do not believe it was ) it seems it would work out to be a very convenient narrative for several of the main players here.

Maybe it's just me, but when someone says, "Look here, look here! THIS is what happened!" My first thought is why? Why are they pointing me in a specific direction?

Especially when there is not a shred of evidence to support it. There is no proof that MC was the one carrying that phone to the bridge. Not only could have been anyone, but in fact, I believe it was someone else who pitched his phone in the lake.

Yet based on that alone, the whole suicide tale has been concocted.

MC rode a bike very slowly for miles and miles, ( keep in mind, his scent was inexplicably lost by the dogs the minute he climbed on the bike. Wow. That slow moving bike confounded those poor dogs. )

MC was not seen by a single person on that trip, and he killed himself by jumping a few feet to his death. Right. Yet, lo and behold, it happened that way - - because they say so.

Shaking my head...


JMO
 
JazzTune said:
( RBBM )


https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/mis...-retired-firefighter-michael-chambers-n736021

Oh Razz, I don't want to be one of those nit-picky persons, but I guess I am. ;)

According to the link above, it states:

"...Around 11:00 a.m. security video captured Michael Chambers walking out of the Walmart in town..."

I don't know how long it would have taken him to drive home from there, but I believe it was reported to be a fair distance from his home. Probably wouldn't have been getting home before 11:30 a.m. in my opinion.

I know that extra hour wouldn't make that much difference in your scenario, but just saying...

Also, just saying too, if it was suicide, ( which I do not believe it was ) it seems it would work out to be a very convenient narrative for several of the main players here.

Maybe it's just me, but when someone says, "Look here, look here! THIS is what happened!" My first thought is why? Why are they pointing me in a specific direction?

Especially when there is not a shred of evidence to support it. There is no proof that MC was the one carrying that phone to the bridge. Not only could have been anyone, but in fact, I believe it was someone else who pitched his phone in the lake.

Yet based on that alone, the whole suicide tale has been concocted.

MC rode a bike very slowly for miles and miles, ( keep in mind, his scent was inexplicably lost by the dogs the minute he climbed on the bike. Wow. That slow moving bike confounded those poor dogs. )

MC was not seen by a single person on that trip, and he killed himself by jumping a few feet to his death. Right. Yet, lo and behold, it happened that way - - because they say so.

Shaking my head...


JMO
Click to expand...
Thank you JazzTune. Actually that time works better for my scenario in that surely he had something to eat or drink as he would arrived home around noon. I had asked our VI several times if there had been anything resembling lunch or a glass in the sink but never got an answer.

The shorter time means he had less time to ponder or putz around.

I really wish someone would do the bike trail that MC was supposed to take. I would really like to know if SM's theory is plausible.

I also wonder if he did ride to the bridge maybe he took the boat ramp that would have put him right in the water while on the bike. No one has ever said if he knew how to swim. I can't imagine he didn't know how.

I'm not asking anyone to believe this theory. I'm not sure I do, but to me, it is the most logical. You know, if anyone were to disappear under questionable circumstances I think BC would have been a better candidate. I can't imagine there were many people happy with her.

I say to the p.i.'s: get the GPS from MC"s phone and prove there is absolutely
no way it could have happened the way SM says it did. I hope someone is working on that now.




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Here's a link to a comment from a VI. I also quoted it below.

https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?ur...share_fid=730&share_type=t&share_pid=13526069

"I hope my aunt was able to find someone to post this info while I was helping my husband's family, but she asked me last week to share the last item on the receipt: Coricidin HBP.*

I'm not SURE that's what the item on the belt is, as he already has his wallet out - so assumedly his items were already bagged - and if it is not, then my guess would be that the item on the belt belonged to someone behind Papaw in line. I am 100% POSITIVE that that is the final item that was on the receipt, though."

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Just an FYI: This afternoon, the price was dropped $12,000 on BC's house. She is now asking $349,900. Per realtor.com.
 
I’ll find the post where PMerle said BC told her MC offered to do laundry after Walmart so she wouldn’t have to after work. It didn’t seem so weird the first time I read it.
 
Talullah said:
I’ll find the post where PMerle said BC told her MC offered to do laundry after Walmart so she wouldn’t have to after work. It didn’t seem so weird the first time I read it.
Click to expand...

That rang a bell with me too, so I started looking for it as well. I finally found it!

Pmerle00 posted this on 9/06/17 at 12:25 p.m. Post # 728 on Thread # 3.

It was in response to a question about when MC was asked to get the make-up for BC. The person asking the question had listed several options by number, as to whether MC was called on the phone or asked to pick it up before she ever left the home.

Here is what Pmerle00 posted:

"...# 3 is what Becca TOLD me and several other people at the beginning of all of this - that she asked him to pick up her mascara and he offered to do the laundry so she wouldn't have to that evening..."

( BBM )

Thank you, Talullah for remembering this, and bringing it up.

I think it is such an important point!

Seriously, does this sound like a man planning his imminent suicide?!

After he does the laundry first?


JMO
 
JazzTune said:
( RBBM )


https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/mis...-retired-firefighter-michael-chambers-n736021

Oh Razz, I don't want to be one of those nit-picky persons, but I guess I am. ;)

According to the link above, it states:

"...Around 11:00 a.m. security video captured Michael Chambers walking out of the Walmart in town..."

I don't know how long it would have taken him to drive home from there, but I believe it was reported to be a fair distance from his home. Probably wouldn't have been getting home before 11:30 a.m. in my opinion.

I know that extra hour wouldn't make that much difference in your scenario, but just saying...

Also, just saying too, if it was suicide, ( which I do not believe it was ) it seems it would work out to be a very convenient narrative for several of the main players here.

Maybe it's just me, but when someone says, "Look here, look here! THIS is what happened!" My first thought is why? Why are they pointing me in a specific direction?

Especially when there is not a shred of evidence to support it. There is no proof that MC was the one carrying that phone to the bridge. Not only could have been anyone, but in fact, I believe it was someone else who pitched his phone in the lake.

Yet based on that alone, the whole suicide tale has been concocted.

MC rode a bike very slowly for miles and miles, ( keep in mind, his scent was inexplicably lost by the dogs the minute he climbed on the bike. Wow. That slow moving bike confounded those poor dogs. )

MC was not seen by a single person on that trip, and he killed himself by jumping a few feet to his death. Right. Yet, lo and behold, it happened that way - - because they say so.

Shaking my head...


JMO
Click to expand...

Don't forget, JazzTune, that this particular suicide theory is one of several, as per the HCSO. It probably is the one Meeks favors, but he did specifically say he has no proof of that. There's no proof of any theory at present.

As to MC's phone, well, it's just as likely that phone was in his own pocket rather than someone else's. No proof that it was, no proof that it wasn't.

I said somewhere upthread that a key for me right now is understanding HOW the phone expert extrapolated that info as to where, when, and how fast MC's phone moved. I've googled and read and still can't find a lick of technical info out there. If the expert's data analysis is correct, that phone DID get to at least the mid-way point on that bridge before it was disabled or died. And, that phone apparently arrived by some means going either 4.5-4.8mph, or the time and distance AVERAGED out to that speed, with one stop. We haven't a clue how long that stop was, or what time the phone got to it's last known location. (Jumping off from there, maybe MC threw the phone off the bridge, and just kept going somewhere else...)

Regardless as to whether MC still had the phone in his pocket, or whether someone else had taken it, I think it's highly unlikely it moved by car, truck, motorcycle, walking, or flying. That phone got there by some means, and those means are limited. I could see MC on a bike much more readily than I could see him walking at a really good clip. Maybe a boat on the lake. If someone else had taken a bike and his phone, that person apparently wasn't seen, either. That afternoon of March 10, no one knew anything unusual had happened at the Chambers' residence, or that anything at all had happened to MC. I wouldn't have a clue as to what I may have seen or not seen 6 months ago, let alone a year ago- unless I was aware at that time that something of significance had occurred in my town.
 
JazzTune said:
That rang a bell with me too, so I started looking for it as well. I finally found it!

Pmerle00 posted this on 9/06/17 at 12:25 p.m. Post # 728 on Thread # 3.

It was in response to a question about when MC was asked to get the make-up for BC. The person asking the question had listed several options by number, as to whether MC was called on the phone or asked to pick it up before she ever left the home.

Here is what Pmerle00 posted:

"...# 3 is what Becca TOLD me and several other people at the beginning of all of this - that she asked him to pick up her mascara and he offered to do the laundry so she wouldn't have to that evening..."

( BBM )

Thank you, Talullah for remembering this, and bringing it up.

I think it is such an important point!

Seriously, does this sound like a man planning his imminent suicide?!

After he does the laundry first?


JMO
Click to expand...

That's definitely a good thought and one I've tried to square away, myself. Then, I remind myself that so many people's cases I've read about here on WS have seemed to be just as confounding. A number of those cases that ended up being suicide were people that gave no outward signs before hand. Sure, some of them, in hindsight, may have shown an inkling, but some did not. Quite a few people seemed to have done very normal and routine things before harming themselves.

I don't want this to be the case for MC, but a walk-away and that have probably fit my way of thinking the best. I assure you, though, that I very, very seriously consider the abduction/murder scenario.
 
Tripod said:
Don't forget, JazzTune, that this particular suicide theory is one of several, as per the HCSO. It probably is the one Meeks favors, but he did specifically say he has no proof of that. There's no proof of any theory at present.

As to MC's phone, well, it's just as likely that phone was in his own pocket rather than someone else's. No proof that it was, no proof that it wasn't.

I said somewhere upthread that a key for me right now is understanding HOW the phone expert extrapolated that info as to where, when, and how fast MC's phone moved. I've googled and read and still can't find a lick of technical info out there. If the expert's data analysis is correct, that phone DID get to at least the mid-way point on that bridge before it was disabled or died. And, that phone apparently arrived by some means going either 4.5-4.8mph, or the time and distance AVERAGED out to that speed, with one stop. We haven't a clue how long that stop was, or what time the phone got to it's last known location. (Jumping off from there, maybe MC threw the phone off the bridge, and just kept going somewhere else...)

Regardless as to whether MC still had the phone in his pocket, or whether someone else had taken it, I think it's highly unlikely it moved by car, truck, motorcycle, walking, or flying. That phone got there by some means, and those means are limited. I could see MC on a bike much more readily than I could see him walking at a really good clip. Maybe a boat on the lake. If someone else had taken a bike and his phone, that person apparently wasn't seen, either. That afternoon of March 10, no one knew anything unusual had happened at the Chambers' residence, or that anything at all had happened to MC. I wouldn't have a clue as to what I may have seen or not seen 6 months ago, let alone a year ago- unless I was aware at that time that something of significance had occurred in my town.
Click to expand...

Thanks Tripod, for your good explanation. You have made valid points. I agree too with wanting to know how the phone expert arrived at his conclusions.

There really are other theories, but you wouldn't know it from watching that interview. It looked like the Sheriff was pounding a square peg into a round hole. By golly, he was going to make it fit!

So the bike theory was concocted, even though the family through the P.I. stated MC had never even ridden a bike.

I couldn't help but notice too that the Sheriff left out the most explainable reason for the speed of the phone. Was it because he knew it would definitely rule MC out?

Between 4.5 to 4.8 mph is a very plausible speed for a jogger. ( I used to run 6 mph and I was not pushing it. ) Joggers are such a common sight everywhere, I can't imagine anyone taking notice at the time, or remembering it at all, months later.

An elderly man on a bike? Yes, people would distinctly remember that, but a guy running? Not even a blip on the memory screen.

If it was a runner with MC's phone in their pocket, it was definitely not MC. Not that there aren't runners at his age, but he had no history of it that I'm aware. More importantly, he had bad knees.

Which brings up my theory. I believe MC was taken down by a group in a planned hit. I think he was abducted into a vehicle where the dogs lost his scent.

One of the group then ran with the phone and threw it in the lake.

I've wondered too why they didn't force MC to leave it in the garage with his other items. Must have been some incriminating phone numbers on there. Maybe a call to MC asking if they could come look at one of his classic cars?

Didn't the VI, Pmerle00 keep stating that the family could not get the HCSO to request the phone records from Apple? Hmmm...

In my opinion, my theory makes as much sense as theirs. Yet, this has not even been offered up as an option. Not even discussed. Why?

That's where I am right now. Why has this not been fully investigated?


JMO
 
Or he could have been thinking,,,,This is all I'm good for anymore....going to Walmart for mascara and doing the laundry?

Why would she need to do laundry THAT evening? She had been off work for what...6-8 weeks? I think I would have done the laundry BEFORE I went back to work, not the first day I go back to work.
 
Tripod said:
That's definitely a good thought and one I've tried to square away, myself. Then, I remind myself that so many people's cases I've read about here on WS have seemed to be just as confounding. A number of those cases that ended up being suicide were people that gave no outward signs before hand. Sure, some of them, in hindsight, may have shown an inkling, but some did not. Quite a few people seemed to have done very normal and routine things before harming themselves.

I don't want this to be the case for MC, but a walk-away and that have probably fit my way of thinking the best. I assure you, though, that I very, very seriously consider the abduction/murder scenario.
Click to expand...

Tripod, you're so right about suicidal people. I worked on an adult, inpatient, locked psychiatric unit in a regular hospital for 15 years. Obviously, all of our suicidal patients survived their attempts.

You're correct. Many families were completely blindsided. Stated there were no outward signs at all.

Suicidal people will only show you what they want you to know.

However, what I noted was that once they made their plan, nothing was going to stop it. They would move heaven and earth, so to speak, to insure that their plan would go off without a hitch.

They left very little to chance.

I never saw anyone who was sincerely suicidal, and yet was lackadaisical in their approach to it.

So, in my opinion, if MC was suicidal and had made his plan to kill himself that day, for him to throw in an offer to do laundry for her first, would not fit in any suicide criteria I have ever observed.

I repeat, suicidal people with a specific plan, are not open at all to anything that would change it. Especially a factor under their own control.

Offering to do her laundry seals the deal for me. Doesn't mean I expect everyone else to agree with me. We're all entitled to interpret the information our own way.

As you say too, there really are confounding cases of suicide we've seen here at WS.

I just don't think MC is one of them...


JMO
 
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