Found Deceased TX - Michael Chambers, 70, Hunt County, 10 March 2017 #5

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Or he could have been thinking,,,,This is all I'm good for anymore....going to Walmart for mascara and doing the laundry?

Why would she need to do laundry THAT evening? She had been off work for what...6-8 weeks? I think I would have done the laundry BEFORE I went back to work, not the first day I go back to work.

IF he’d been suicidal, this is my thought. Reduced from a hero to an errand boy for an extremely unfaithful, unappreciative spouse.


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Or he could have been thinking,,,,This is all I'm good for anymore....going to Walmart for mascara and doing the laundry?

Why would she need to do laundry THAT evening? She had been off work for what...6-8 weeks? I think I would have done the laundry BEFORE I went back to work, not the first day I go back to work.

Yeah, I agree, I would have done the laundry prior to returning to work. But she was recovering from a broken wrist, and I doubt if the laundry was a priority, or perhaps even a thought.

She may not have even noticed it piling up. Maybe MC too hadn't really noticed it either. Sort of one of those things where she could have said, 'Oh my, look at all this laundry. I need to do it when I get home after work.'

Not saying that's what happened. But it's far more plausible to me than the suicide theory....


JMO
 
Yeah, I agree, I would have done the laundry prior to returning to work. But she was recovering from a broken wrist, and I doubt if the laundry was a priority, or perhaps even a thought.

She may not have even noticed it piling up. Maybe MC too hadn't really noticed it either. Sort of one of those things where she could have said, 'Oh my, look at all this laundry. I need to do it when I get home after work.'

Not saying that's what happened. But it's far more plausible to me than the suicide theory....


JMO

Her sister in law was there to take care of her, and help out during her recovery. Was she not doing laundry? I would think that the household chores were current for the most part. The laundry request is a strange one.


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Knowing what MC had done all of his career, do any of you think he would have committed suicide in a way as to never be found and left his family wondering where he was and what happened? This is the part of me that thinks suicide is not what happened!

Would anyone on WS just walk away from their life and leave children, grandchildren not knowing what happened to you? I don't think so because we KNOW the anguish it causes those left behind!

I just don't think he would do that to his children and grandchildren. Suicide, possibly........not finding a body or leaving a note.......never.

JMO
 
There is one more thing that keeps bugging me. In the live facebook interview with Sheriff Meeks, at about 13:45 into it, he tells the reporter that the dispatcher pinged MC's phone as soon as they got the call he was missing and it showed to be in the vicinity of the 2 mile bridge.

Can sheriff's dispatchers ping cell phones? I personally have never heard that in any other scenarios.

When I read about the facts of someone missing in the very early stages, I have never heard them say we pinged the phone when we got the call and it was at so and so place. Is that possible?

How and who pings that phone?
 
Knowing what MC had done all of his career, do any of you think he would have committed suicide in a way as to never be found and left his family wondering where he was and what happened? This is the part of me that thinks suicide is not what happened!

Would anyone on WS just walk away from their life and leave children, grandchildren not knowing what happened to you? I don't think so because we KNOW the anguish it causes those left behind!

I just don't think he would do that to his children and grandchildren. Suicide, possibly........not finding a body or leaving a note.......never.

JMO

I personally don’t think it would be in his nature, and would go against everything he believed in as a firefighter.


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Her sister in law was there to take care of her, and help out during her recovery. Was she not doing laundry? I would think that the household chores were current for the most part. The laundry request is a strange one.


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That's a really good point, and something that had slipped my mind. But still, how long was the sister-in-law there with her? Throughout the whole time or just the first few weeks? I myself have no idea.

To me, it seems the laundry pile-up could have been recent if the sister-in-law was not staying with her full-time by that point.

It's all just conjecture, but myself, I don't really find his offer to be odd. Again, maybe he hadn't noticed the laundry piling up until BC mentioned it.

But this is only my opinion. What may seem perfectly reasonable to me may strike others as very odd.

Honestly, I find myself wondering what outsiders would think of any of the conversations I have had with my family. Many of which would make no sense perhaps to anyone except me. ;)

So I don't expect others to agree, and that's okay too.

I'm glad we're discussing all of this though. It keeps MC's case out there...


JMO
 
There is one more thing that keeps bugging me. In the live facebook interview with Sheriff Meeks, at about 13:45 into it, he tells the reporter that the dispatcher pinged MC's phone as soon as they got the call he was missing and it showed to be in the vicinity of the 2 mile bridge.

Can sheriff's dispatchers ping cell phones? I personally have never heard that in any other scenarios.

When I read about the facts of someone missing in the very early stages, I have never heard them say we pinged the phone when we got the call and it was at so and so place. Is that possible?

How and who pings that phone?

He keeps using the incorrect terminology. And that can be very confusing to people. “Ping” is what a cell signal does off of cell towers. It takes expert training and skill to analyze, and decipher the cell phone tower information. The result of a Ping is going to give you an approximate area that said phone is located in. That’s provided that the information has been properly read and analyzed. There are a lot of variables in analyzing phone location data.

RM is talking about the GPS signal. The GPS signal ends when the battery on the phone dies. The GPS can pinpoint the location of a phone in most cases.

A local yokel agency like HCSO is not going to have the ability to do either of these things.

The only thing that I can think of that could have been used would be IPhone Find My Friends app. You can share your location with your contacts for a certain timeframe, or indefinitely. But the tracked phone has to give permission to be tracked before you can track the location. If this was launched, someone on the receiving end with MC’s phone would have had to say Yes to access. And chances are if this app was being used already on his phone, then BC could have probably looked to see where he/his phone was before she rode around the property on a golf cart, and called 911.

Say the dispatcher did track the phone, and it was at the bridge....then why was the Sheriff adamant that MC was in the pond across the street from the property the weekend of the disappearance? He really needs to pick a story, and stick with it, and probably watch more ID Channel to get more believable information when he makes this stuff up.


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Thanks Tripod, for your good explanation. You have made valid points. I agree too with wanting to know how the phone expert arrived at his conclusions.

There really are other theories, but you wouldn't know it from watching that interview. It looked like the Sheriff was pounding a square peg into a round hole. By golly, he was going to make it fit!

So the bike theory was concocted, even though the family through the P.I. stated MC had never even ridden a bike.

I couldn't help but notice too that the Sheriff left out the most explainable reason for the speed of the phone. Was it because he knew it would definitely rule MC out?

Between 4.5 to 4.8 mph is a very plausible speed for a jogger. ( I used to run 6 mph and I was not pushing it. ) Joggers are such a common sight everywhere, I can't imagine anyone taking notice at the time, or remembering it at all, months later.

An elderly man on a bike? Yes, people would distinctly remember that, but a guy running? Not even a blip on the memory screen.

If it was a runner with MC's phone in their pocket, it was definitely not MC. Not that there aren't runners at his age, but he had no history of it that I'm aware. More importantly, he had bad knees.

Which brings up my theory. I believe MC was taken down by a group in a planned hit. I think he was abducted into a vehicle where the dogs lost his scent.

One of the group then ran with the phone and threw it in the lake.

I've wondered too why they didn't force MC to leave it in the garage with his other items. Must have been some incriminating phone numbers on there. Maybe a call to MC asking if they could come look at one of his classic cars?

Didn't the VI, Pmerle00 keep stating that the family could not get the HCSO to request the phone records from Apple? Hmmm...

In my opinion, my theory makes as much sense as theirs. Yet, this has not even been offered up as an option. Not even discussed. Why?

That's where I am right now. Why has this not been fully investigated?


JMO
I appreciate your theory JT. I have been working on a theory and trying to eliminate some options as well as examining motives also. For me, a boat is the only perfect option for a speed of 4-5 mph. Just this weekend I was traveling and hit and area of poor cell coverage and my gps showed I was over a couple of miles from the actual road I was on. I am interested in what data GPS is able to show if you are moving cross country, not on a road at all. I haven't been on Tawakoni but another lake in E TX and sometimes it would show me in the lake and other times it would show I was on a nearby road. I'm sure it depends on the strength and type of cell coverage. I am always amazed at how quickly I sometimes lose LTE service when I am just a short distance from a major road. If pings were used we know the expert could have extrapolated the data to fit him being on a road instead of moving off road on a body of water.
A small bass boat with a small outboard can go at 15-20 mph top speed with 2 people. Start adding more people and weight and it slows down. A pontoon can go 30 mph top speed and hold more people and weight. My estimation is with 4 people and additional weight that is cut in half. Those are the 2 average boats that would not look out of place on Tawakoni. But if you want to look like you are just fishing and not draw attention, you would only be moving at about 5 mph. So I don't think it is impossible that cell data or an expert extrapolating would put the phone traveling on the road when in fact it is on the lake and for me, if the speed is real a boat fits more perfectly than anything else. But then as Tripod considered, if we find that the speed was averaged from time it left his house to time it stopped at the bridge then I would think it could have traveled in a vehicle. Also I would add if it traveled by boat it would be easy to pinpoint the start and finish because his home and the bridge are both roads. So I can see why they are sure it stopped in the middle of the bridge because even if the coordinates were squirrelly beforehand, when it got to the bridge it would have been able to locate since it is a road.
That doesn't mean I think his body is there too. Maybe, maybe not. I'm just speaking of how I think his phone may have traveled.
 
Her sister in law was there to take care of her, and help out during her recovery. Was she not doing laundry? I would think that the household chores were current for the most part. The laundry request is a strange one.


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Was her sister-in-law there the entire time? Or just after her injury? I really don't know. How much help would she need when she had such a great husband who waited on her hand and foot? ;)
 
He keeps using the incorrect terminology. And that can be very confusing to people. “Ping” is what a cell signal does off of cell towers. It takes expert training and skill to analyze, and decipher the cell phone tower information. The result of a Ping is going to give you an approximate area that said phone is located in. That’s provided that the information has been properly read and analyzed. There are a lot of variables in analyzing phone location data.

RM is talking about the GPS signal. The GPS signal ends when the battery on the phone dies. The GPS can pinpoint the location of a phone in most cases.

A local yokel agency like HCSO is not going to have the ability to do either of these things.

The only thing that I can think of that could have been used would be IPhone Find My Friends app. You can share your location with your contacts for a certain timeframe, or indefinitely. But the tracked phone has to give permission to be tracked before you can track the location. If this was launched, someone on the receiving end with MC’s phone would have had to say Yes to access. And chances are if this app was being used already on his phone, then BC could have probably looked to see where he/his phone was before she rode around the property on a golf cart, and called 911.

Say the dispatcher did track the phone, and it was at the bridge....then why was the Sheriff adamant that MC was in the pond across the street from the property the weekend of the disappearance? He really needs to pick a story, and stick with it, and probably watch more ID Channel to get more believable information when he makes this stuff up.


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My point exactly! He's making this up as he goes!

I know about the Iphone tracking software. My friend and her family have it. One evening, we had been out at a bunko party....stopped to get frozen yogurt......walked into the store and she got a text from her husband asking "what are you doing at the frozen yogurt shop? Thought you were playing Bunko"? She was furious....told him she was going to turn it off if he didn't stop stalking her while she was out of his sight!

Apparently BC didn't have this (although it might have been a good idea in hind site! LOL)

My point was Meeks is making stuff up to suit his needs. I didn't think a dispatcher could ping, track, gps a phone as soon as someone was reported missing.
 
Was her sister-in-law there the entire time? Or just after her injury? I really don't know. How much help would she need when she had such a great husband who waited on her hand and foot? ;)

I know I'm sounding like a broken record, and I apologize for that. Don't mean to be blowing up the thread the way I have recently.

But honestly, I could see MC not paying one single bit of attention to the laundry pile, until she pointed it out. Not a deliberate attempt to not help out with laundry, but just that it may not have even crossed his mind.

Guess I'm seeing my own dh here in this situation. He is so much like MC in many ways. Would do anything for anyone.

Will help out with laundry anytime too if I mention it. However, he doesn't 'see' the dirty laundry. It doesn't jump out at him. Sort of like he has blinders on when it comes to that.

That's just him. Maybe other guys are like him too. Or maybe not. He's the only one I've had for many years ( very blessed! ) so I have no comparison.

I guess that's why I keep jumping back in on this...


JMO
 
6e356384fbbf3d4c062cb8a543003729.jpg


Here is my current Find My Friends. I am currently sitting on my front porch, facing my street. I’m the blue dot. My teenager is in her room at the back of the house. Her location SHOULD be more towards Oak Street. But this gives an idea of how it works.


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I know I'm sounding like a broken record, and I apologize for that. Don't mean to be blowing up the thread the way I have recently.

But honestly, I could see MC not paying one single bit of attention to the laundry pile, until she pointed it out. Not a deliberate attempt to not help out with laundry, but just that it may not have even crossed his mind.

Guess I'm seeing my own dh here in this situation. He is so much like MC in many ways. Would do anything for anyone.

Will help out with laundry anytime too if I mention it. However, he doesn't 'see' the dirty laundry. It doesn't jump out at him. Sort of like he has blinders on when it comes to that.

That's just him. Maybe other guys are like him too. Or maybe not. He's the only one I've had for many years ( very blessed! ) so I have no comparison.

I guess that's why I keep jumping back in on this...


JMO

My fella is old school, and so am I. I do the laundry. That’s my job. But not all relationship dynamics are like that. Maybe there was something that needed to be washed that day, and he was asked to handle it. Who really knows.


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I appreciate your theory JT. I have been working on a theory and trying to eliminate some options as well as examining motives also. For me, a boat is the only perfect option for a speed of 4-5 mph. Just this weekend I was traveling and hit and area of poor cell coverage and my gps showed I was over a couple of miles from the actual road I was on. I am interested in what data GPS is able to show if you are moving cross country, not on a road at all. I haven't been on Tawakoni but another lake in E TX and sometimes it would show me in the lake and other times it would show I was on a nearby road. I'm sure it depends on the strength and type of cell coverage. I am always amazed at how quickly I sometimes lose LTE service when I am just a short distance from a major road. If pings were used we know the expert could have extrapolated the data to fit him being on a road instead of moving off road on a body of water.
A small bass boat with a small outboard can go at 15-20 mph top speed with 2 people. Start adding more people and weight and it slows down. A pontoon can go 30 mph top speed and hold more people and weight. My estimation is with 4 people and additional weight that is cut in half. Those are the 2 average boats that would not look out of place on Tawakoni. But if you want to look like you are just fishing and not draw attention, you would only be moving at about 5 mph. So I don't think it is impossible that cell data or an expert extrapolating would put the phone traveling on the road when in fact it is on the lake and for me, if the speed is real a boat fits more perfectly than anything else. But then as Tripod considered, if we find that the speed was averaged from time it left his house to time it stopped at the bridge then I would think it could have traveled in a vehicle. Also I would add if it traveled by boat it would be easy to pinpoint the start and finish because his home and the bridge are both roads. So I can see why they are sure it stopped in the middle of the bridge because even if the coordinates were squirrelly beforehand, when it got to the bridge it would have been able to locate since it is a road.
That doesn't mean I think his body is there too. Maybe, maybe not. I'm just speaking of how I think his phone may have traveled.

Thanks ocgrad, these are well thought out ideas. I admit I hadn't been able to grasp the idea of how a boat could be factored in, until I just read your post here.

I really like your thoughts about how the more weight in the boat, the slower it would go.

As you already know I do not believe it was suicide. So if several people were holding MC against his will in a boat, do you think they would have risked him not trying to jump in and escape from them?

If they had already killed him before getting in the boat with plans to put him in the lake, would they have risked being seen? Plus MC was a very tall man. It would have taken several people to carry him.

Maybe though that wasn't a concern for them. The lake was probably too far away from view of anyone. As you say, a couple of boats would not stir any suspicion or even memory.

Thank you! Your theory gives me a lot to think about...
 
Her sister in law was there to take care of her, and help out during her recovery. Was she not doing laundry? I would think that the household chores were current for the most part. The laundry request is a strange one.

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According to Meeks, MC was “severely depressed” for the three weeks immediately prior to his disappearance.

At least for me, when severely and clinically depressed, laundry is one of the first things that goes out of the window. As gross as it sounds, I would come home from the hospital to two, three weeks’ worth of (if not more) dirty laundry and dishes.

Due to HIPAA, I don’t believe we will ever know whether MC had been diagnosed with depression by a clinician until/unless there is a criminal indictment(s) or a civil lawsuit(s), e.g., wrongful death.

Our VI posted on April 10, 2017:

“Health records have been obtained by law enforcement, no indications of any stage of mental illness. As someone who knows him, I can attest that he was sharp as a tack.”

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/s...ounty-10-March-2017-1&p=13302419#post13302419

However, she also posted two days later:

“The sheriff's department is getting medical records. Hopefully they have them already. “

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/s...ounty-10-March-2017-1&p=13306871#post13306871

So I don’t believe we know with absolute certainty if HCSO ever even obtained MC’s medical records.

As kidetec22 pointed out upthread, Meeks stated he called Suzy and JC1 to apologize for publicly discussing the suicide theory. This leads me to believe he had already shared the suicide scenario with BC, and she had no problem with it. This, in turn, also leads me to believe BC was the one who told Meeks MC had been “severely depressed.”

Yet, supposedly, “she asked him to pick up her mascara and he offered to do the laundry so she wouldn't have to that evening.”

Here is our VI’s post the above quote comes from:

35d1edf0782409369e6900e1fd4ef94a.jpg


https://www.websleuths.com/forums/s...ounty-10-March-2017-3&p=13609637#post13609637

It may not mean anything, but why did BC even mention MC offered to do laundry? How is it relevant to his disappearance? If anything, this indicates to me he was far from being depressed.

I am now wondering if there was any DFD shirt or blue sweatpants in the washer or dryer when HCSO first arrived at the scene after the 911 call (which I seriously doubt that they checked).


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According to Meeks, MC was “severely depressed” for the three weeks immediately prior to his disappearance.

At least for me, when severely and clinically depressed, laundry is one of the first things that goes out of the window. As gross as it sounds, I would come home from the hospital to two, three weeks’ worth of (if not more) dirty laundry and dishes.

Due to HIPAA, I don’t believe we will ever know whether MC had been diagnosed with depression by a clinician until/unless there is a criminal indictment(s) or a civil lawsuit(s), e.g., wrongful death.

Our VI posted on April 10, 2017:

“Health records have been obtained by law enforcement, no indications of any stage of mental illness. As someone who knows him, I can attest that he was sharp as a tack.”

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/s...ounty-10-March-2017-1&p=13302419#post13302419

However, she also posted two days later:

“The sheriff's department is getting medical records. Hopefully they have them already. “

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/s...ounty-10-March-2017-1&p=13306871#post13306871

So I don’t believe we know with absolute certainty if HCSO ever even obtained MC’s medical records.

As kidetec22 pointed out upthread, Meeks stated he called Suzy and JC1 to apologize for publicly discussing the suicide theory. This leads me to believe he had already shared the suicide scenario with BC, and she had no problem with it. This, in turn, also leads me to believe BC was the one who told Meeks MC had been “severely depressed.”

Yet, supposedly, “she asked him to pick up her mascara and he offered to do the laundry so she wouldn't have to that evening.”

Here is our VI’s post the above quote comes from:

35d1edf0782409369e6900e1fd4ef94a.jpg


https://www.websleuths.com/forums/s...ounty-10-March-2017-3&p=13609637#post13609637

It may not mean anything, but why did BC even mention MC offered to do laundry? How is it relevant to his disappearance? If anything, this indicates to me he was far from being depressed.

I am now wondering if there was any DFD shirt or blue sweatpants in the washer or dryer when HCSO first arrived at the scene after the 911 call (which I seriously doubt that they checked).


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iT COULD BE BOTH #1 and #2. She asked him to pick up her mascara so she left an empty tube/box (I never save my mascara box) on the counter the next am so he would get the correct kind.
 
There is one more thing that keeps bugging me. In the live facebook interview with Sheriff Meeks, at about 13:45 into it, he tells the reporter that the dispatcher pinged MC's phone as soon as they got the call he was missing and it showed to be in the vicinity of the 2 mile bridge.

Can sheriff's dispatchers ping cell phones? I personally have never heard that in any other scenarios.

When I read about the facts of someone missing in the very early stages, I have never heard them say we pinged the phone when we got the call and it was at so and so place. Is that possible?

How and who pings that phone?

I had an experience with that. Altho I can't answer how they did it.

My son and his wife were living apart due to him being transferred to another state with his job and their marriage was rocky because wife didn't want to move. So on a Sat afternoon my daughter gets a call from the wife and she says he just sent me a terrible text and it sounds like he's going to commit suicide. My daughter has her forward the text to her and is horrified by his words. She calls him repeatedly and he doesn't answer. She asks wife where is he? Wife says I dunno probably where he lives.

Daughter calls me while driving to my house and says keep calling him until he answers...he will only answer for you. He does answer and is out of it and won't tell me where he is. Daughter is on the phone with the sheriff's dept in his small town, small county. They go to his house and look thru the windows and there is no evidence he is there. No car in the garage etc. He could be anywhere.

In the meantime his dad and I both take turns trying to get him to tell us where he is. He is so out of it and won't say but he finally tells me what he took before he goes unconscious. Time is of the essence and I am inconsolable. I call wife on the house phone and she says she has no idea where he is nor does she care.

His open line in which I can still him barely breathing goes dead. Daughter is still on the phone with sheriffs office as they search his yard, neighborhood. She says can you ping his phone? And they say oh yes we can. While I am thinking why didn't you do that two hours ago? But thank God they did.

They ping his phone and he is 500 miles away at the wife's house. My husband calls the wife back and she's not home and won't go home to look for him. She hopes he's dead she says. The sheriff contacts police in the other state and gives my daughter the phone number of the officer headed out to the wife's house.

Now she is talking with him giving him the exact address and filling him in on what we know. Ambulance is also on the way. They find him in the garage. Officer puts her on the phone with paramedic and she tells him what he told us he took. They now know what they are working with and get him to the hospital where he spent a couple of days in intensive care and then another week in the hospital before he went to another hospital for the suicide attempt.

Wife never once told us he had driven down that morning to surprise her.....roses in hand. She surprised him by being in bed with another man. They left him there heart broken. I hate her to this day and will never forgive her. But he's well and happy and divorced altho the wife fought like hell to get him back when she realized he didn't want her anymore. Good riddance to bad rubbish.
 
I had an experience with that. Altho I can't answer how they did it.

My son and his wife were living apart due to him being transferred to another state with his job and their marriage was rocky because wife didn't want to move. So on a Sat afternoon my daughter gets a call from the wife and she says he just sent me a terrible text and it sounds like he's going to commit suicide. My daughter has her forward the text to her and is horrified by his words. She calls him repeatedly and he doesn't answer. She asks wife where is he? Wife says I dunno probably where he lives.

Daughter calls me while driving to my house and says keep calling him until he answers...he will only answer for you. He does answer and is out of it and won't tell me where he is. Daughter is on the phone with the sheriff's dept in his small town, small county. They go to his house and look thru the windows and there is no evidence he is there. No car in the garage etc. He could be anywhere.

In the meantime his dad and I both take turns trying to get him to tell us where he is. He is so out of it and won't say but he finally tells me what he took before he goes unconscious. Time is of the essence and I am inconsolable. I call wife on the house phone and she says she has no idea where he is nor does she care.

His open line in which I can still him barely breathing goes dead. Daughter is still on the phone with sheriffs office as they search his yard, neighborhood. She says can you ping his phone? And they say oh yes we can. While I am thinking why didn't you do that two hours ago? But thank God they did.

They ping his phone and he is 500 miles away at the wife's house. My husband calls the wife back and she's not home and won't go home to look for him. She hopes he's dead she says. The sheriff contacts police in the other state and gives my daughter the phone number of the officer headed out to the wife's house.

Now she is talking with him giving him the exact address and filling him in on what we know. Ambulance is also on the way. They find him in the garage. Officer puts her on the phone with paramedic and she tells him what he told us he took. They now know what they are working with and get him to the hospital where he spent a couple of days in intensive care and then another week in the hospital before he went to another hospital for the suicide attempt.

Wife never once told us he had driven down that morning to surprise her.....roses in hand. She surprised him by being in bed with another man. They left him there heart broken. I hate her to this day and will never forgive her. But he's well and happy and divorced altho the wife fought like hell to get him back when she realized he didn't want her anymore. Good riddance to bad rubbish.

Oh my goodness, sassyblue, I started crying reading your post. I am so sorry for what you and your family went through, and your son’s suffering. And thank you for being so candid about your experience.

I am so glad that he is no longer with this cold-hearted woman and doing well. Very best wishes to him.
 
My fella is old school, and so am I. I do the laundry. That’s my job. But not all relationship dynamics are like that. Maybe there was something that needed to be washed that day, and he was asked to handle it. Who really knows.


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And maybe that is what he was doing when he got back from Wal-Mart.
He didn't want to leave a pile of dirty laundry.

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