Deceased/Not Found Ca - Hannah,16 (fnd dec), Devonte,15, (dec nf) Ciera Hart,12 (fnd dec),mendocino Cty,26 Mar 2018 #7

[bluesneakers]

BBM
Actually, no. Its not. Many many kids and adults live a vegan lifestyle. Most thrive and are extremely healthy. Problem is, JH and SH may have been feeding themselves a vegan diet. The kids were not. They were starved.

Those kids would have been starved no matter what diet. Sometimes I wonder if maybe they weren't vegans but used it as a cover story - they're not underfed, they're just vegans! A way to deflect anyone's concern about the children's weight.

And yes, lots of kids grow up vegans, get plenty of protein, are healthy, do just fine and don't look like the Hart kids did.

 

[RickshawFan]

BBM
Actually, no. Its not. Many many kids and adults live a vegan lifestyle. Most thrive and are extremely healthy. Problem is, JH and SH may have been feeding themselves a vegan diet. The kids were not. They were starved.

I disagree with you. Many people cannot be healthy on a vegetarian diet, let alone a vegan one. It's dangerous to be absent nutrients, such as protein and the whole array of vitamins and minerals. I know: I am medically unable to thrive on a vegetarian diet.

As far as I know (I researched this 2 years ago via the lack of corroborating evidence for the "findings" in the China Study), there is no scientific, peer-reviewed, evidence-based data supporting the health benefits of vegan diets. Soy—which is a frequent source of protein for vegetarians—is one of the more common food allergies.

The Harts' vegan/vegetarian shtick is BS, besides. They evidently had goats and chickens.

 

[bluesneakers]

I disagree with you. Many people cannot be healthy on a vegetarian diet, let alone a vegan one. It's dangerous to be absent nutrients, such as protein and the whole array of vitamins and minerals. I know: I am medically unable to thrive on a vegetarian diet.

The Harts' vegan/vegetarian shtick is BS, besides. They evidently had goats and chickens.

If you've got the room chickens and goats make great pets.

:chicken:

 

[Silver~Bell]

I disagree with you. Many people cannot be healthy on a vegetarian diet, let alone a vegan one. It's dangerous to be absent nutrients, such as protein and the whole array of vitamins and minerals. I know: I am medically unable to thrive on a vegetarian diet.

The Harts' vegan/vegetarian shtick is BS, besides. They evidently had goats and chickens.

IIRC, I saw a video of when the kids were little, and they were gathering eggs. I think I got to it from a link on either Thread #5 or #6...unsure...

Sent from my QTAQZ3 using Tapatalk

 

[Momoffourboys]

I disagree with you. Many people cannot be healthy on a vegetarian diet, let alone a vegan one. It's dangerous to be absent nutrients, such as protein and the whole array of vitamins and minerals. I know: I am medically unable to thrive on a vegetarian diet.

The Harts' vegan/vegetarian shtick is BS, besides. They evidently had goats and chickens.

I won’t derail the thread and you are, most certainly, entilted to your opinion. My son, 15, is vegetarian and always has been. I was vegan fo some time. It may not be right for you, but, it works and is healthy for some.

The problem with the Hart kids diet is that there wasn’t one. They were not fed. Malnourished. Starved. Any diet would have been better than what they were getting.

 

[bluesneakers]

I won’t derail the thread and you are, most certainly, entilted to your opinion. My son, 15, is vegetarian and always has been. I was vegan fo some time. It may not be right for you, but, it works and is healthy for some.

The problem with the Hart kids diet is that there wasn’t one. They were not fed. Malnourished. Starved. Any diet would have been better than what they were getting.

If your mom isn't feeding you as punishment it doesn't matter what she's not feeding you.

 

[PinkPrincessPoop]

What do you mean "without protein?" Vegans who put effort into what they eat get plenty of protein. The only nutrient I know of that is absent from a vegan diet is B12, but there are supplements for that. But yes, vegan doesn't automatically mean healthy....you can eat potato chips and oreos all day and call yourself a vegan, but you'll probably end up in the hospital.

I don't care what the Hart women called themselves, it was clearly only for them and nothing for the kids. I bet the kids didn't even get bread and water.

 

[rastalives]

Was the family actually vegan or just vegetarian? The CPS report states they were vegetarian. Was saying they were vegan their cover for how tiny the children were?

 

[waschbaer]

I was looking at the website for the Boggs' farm:

"Guess What?!All Meat Buyer's Club members get 30% OFF


all cured meats!"

I guess that may answer the question some had about where Devonte heard the term "cured meats" or where he got the idea of them even though the family was vegetarian.

 

[fridaybaker]

This whole "rock festival" motif the family had going seems to have been a way to keep abusive behavior out of sight. Jen and the kids were frequently "on the road", "out of town," away for indeterminate lengths of time. This was used as an excuse to CPS for why the kids couldn't be interviewed and why Jen was not available.

I can't see, either, how they'd be gone so long for music festivals. Usually, these last just a few days.

I note, too, that the Harts' house and furnishings are contradictorily conventional for people who claim an "alternative lifestyle". No evidence of goats, raised beds, hot tub, macrame, Grateful Dead posters, crystals, chimes, bowls of fruit, Indian bedspreads, Buddhas, drums...

Rickshaw, I find this comment fascinating, and I'm thinking you have a point here. They constantly point out how "alternative-lifestyle-ist" they are; yet, the house and furnishing seem to scream "Suburban Pottery Barn". (Except the Buddhas -I did see one in a photo, but they're pretty trendy with everyone these days.)

And, to this point, I have noticed something else that has seemed off to me for a long time: One of the descriptors we've heard about the Harts is that they "grew their own food". Now, maybe they grew their own food before they moved to Woodland, WA, but I can assure you, they did not do so there. Their little raised plots are typical suburban tomato/lettuce, some herbs and a cucumber plant or two set-up. I am very aware of what it takes to actually "grow your own food" and it is much, much, more substantial for a family of eight.

I've looked at photos of the whole area around the house and I see no evidence of any of it, aside from those little, as yet unplanted, plots. Nada. They had some tomatoes. Period. Just so much more FAKE "image".

 

[janewall]

A thought literally just occurred to me...Could they have "rehomed" Devonte and Hannah before they left or while they were on the road? If they felt betrayed, they might have considered that an option. Then later they would make up a story online about what happened. Rehoming is a thing and since LE took their computers, they may have found info that makes them think they are alive (hence the "traveling together" wording).

I mostly think they are dead and may never be found. However, if they felt betrayed by Devonte and disappointed in Hannah, it might have crossed their minds. If so, they could have done it and then in hindsight realized that they really crossed the line and would definitely get in trouble (or at least lose their glossy image if people found out).

Rehoming happens and it is kind of an underground thing. Just tossing it out there as an idea.

The above post, and several previous ones that have mentioned child trafficking as a possibility, together give rise to some horrific ideas as to where Devonte and Hannah might be (bearing in mind that these two 'traitors' certainly wouldn't have got off lightly if Jen was involved in their vanishing). These ideas point directly to one reason the FBI could be involved, other than the fact that the case crosses state lines.

I know people don't want to think along these lines, and I don't want to revictimize the victims with prurient speculation. But it's not unbelievable to me that Jen might have made some online/darknet contacts concerning how to rid herself of two troublemakers. I really hope this is just a fever dream of mine, and that nothing that awful happened to them. But we already know that something awful did happen, to all of them. We just don't know the extent of it, or the specifics – or even if it's really over for the two missing ones.

These six precious souls all weigh so heavily on my mind. Despite their being all but silenced for their entire post-adoption lives, the little we have been able to learn of them as individuals is so compelling, so appealing and delightful. They deserved so much more from a family. They deserved so much more support for their uniqueness and gifts, instead being required to conform to their parents' narrow vision of who they were and what their "purpose" was.

I hope wherever Devonte and Hannah are now, they finally have some peace and comfort.

 

[Gooddeeds]

Any word on the held services of the deceased?

 

[janewall]

~I missed this ...How did Jen try to flatter the social worker? TIA !

I'm sorry about the confusion! That's a big mea culpa. I misunderstood the (redacted) identity of the person whose interaction with Jen was described in the Oregon DHS document. The acquaintance who made one of the reports to DHS had stated Jen seemed obsessed with her, and even said she wanted to leave Sarah for her. As the names of the CPS worker and DHS worker who made the home visit were also redacted in that document, I thought Jen had told one of THEM that tale during the home visit, and surmised that might have been a painfully awkward attempt at flattery or redirection from smarmy lyin' Jen – anything to get them off the trail of the kids. Another WS member subsequently pointed out that I had conflated the several redacted names, but by then it was too late to either edit that info into my original post, or just to delete the erroneous theory. Sorry to lead you down a pointless rabbit hole!

 

[claudianunes]

An adoptive parent does not need to be any particular color, to be arrogant and hostile, and consider themselves superior saviors.

My daughter's friend , a mixed race adoptee, was adopted by a black couple who were distant relatives. They always treated her as an inferior, because she was 'mixed' and because. as they told her often as she grew up ' her mother was a low life and she was lucky they stepped in to save her from being raised by a *advertiser censored*.'

The 'savior card' has no color.

The white saviour complex is a real thing though. It's not just about being arrogant and such. Is about justifying all of the nefarious things that were done to people of color all through History. But yes, you are absolutely right. We know that some black families don't take well on mixed children. The same goes to white familes not accepting mixed children. The same thing happens with asian families and so on. There is weird, hateful people everywhere. But let's not brush off the reality of what the white saviour complex is and how much it has been hurting people for a long, long, long time. My only issue with white people adopting black, hispanic, asian, native american (and so on...) children is that they have the obligation to expose the children they adopt to their culture, traditions and History. I am European and I can't imagine adopting a child from other European country and not expose that child to the culture, History and traditions of that country. What I'm trying to say is that, at least to me, it doesn't seem like the Hart kids were being exposed to their cultures, traditions and History. And I'm sorry to touch on the subject of race once again, please go ahead and delete my post if it's necessary.

 

[Aescwynn]

Any word on the held services of the deceased?

AFAIK, the last that has been said about this is that the remains are being held pending the end of the investigation. Devonte and Hannah are still missing, and tox findings are still not in on two (I think) of the children.

Private services may have been held, of course.

 

[sleepingheart]

~Does anyone know right offhand where any of the articles or places that had all the comments from the Hart's friends defending them are? I haven't seen any and would like to. Thanks in advance !

 

[sleepingheart]

I'm sorry about the confusion! That's a big mea culpa. I misunderstood the (redacted) identity of the person whose interaction with Jen was described in the Oregon DHS document. The acquaintance who made one of the reports to DHS had stated Jen seemed obsessed with her, and even said she wanted to leave Sarah for her. As the names of the CPS worker and DHS worker who made the home visit were also redacted in that document, I thought Jen had told one of THEM that tale during the home visit, and surmised that might have been a painfully awkward attempt at flattery or redirection from smarmy lyin' Jen – anything to get them off the trail of the kids. Another WS member subsequently pointed out that I had conflated the several redacted names, but by then it was too late to either edit that info into my original post, or just to delete the erroneous theory. Sorry to lead you down a pointless rabbit hole!

~Oh, I see! ...And it's no problem! Thanks for responding !

 

[staunchcharacter]

AFAIK, the last that has been said about this is that the remains are being held pending the end of the investigation. Devonte and Hannah are still missing, and tox findings are still not in on two (I think) of the children.

Private services may have been held, of course.

Their friend Nusheen Bakhtiar said they had already been cremated. Not sure what truth there is to that. She said she had been in contact with Jen's aunt.

 

[LeighB]

Many contributors on this site use names that are gender neutral.

Quite true, of course. But many give details that make it clear whether they consider themselves male or female.

 

[Jax49]

Their friend Nusheen Bakhtiar said they had already been cremated. Not sure what truth there is to that. She said she had been in contact with Jen's aunt.

Last update I can find is from the 21st and it is unclear.

Bakhtiar said earlier this week in a comment on a Facebook thread that authorities cremated the remains of the family members found dead in the crash, and the ashes were sent to relatives in South Dakota. On April 6, Mendocino County Sheriff Public Information Officer Captain Greg Van Patten told CrimeOnline that the remains had been placed on hold, and would not be released to the family for dispensation. The Mendocino County Sheriff’s Office has not responded to repeated inquiries this week regarding the status of the remains.

http://www.crimeonline.com/2018/04/...id-she-never-heard-missing-hannah-hart-speak/

bbm